JASO MA-2

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I don't know if I agree with the entire post over there....
Quote:
Note that JASO-MA2 can now be API SJ formulated, but API SL & API SM formulations still directly contradict JASO-MA/MA1/MA2 standards because of the use of friction modifiers that are not wet-clutch compatible.


Unless I'm missing something, he says you can't have SL/SM and JASO MA approval at the same time. Rotella T6 has both:
http://www-static.shell.com/static/can-e.../rotella_t6.pdf
 
yeah, uh, I read the post and its not sinking in.

It WAS so simple.....JASO MA = good in moto

Now, uh... Jaso MA2 = high friction = good for bikes

JASO MA1 is low friction and is good for catatlytic converters.

So what to do, mix MA1 and MA2 in equal amounts to please both the emissions and the clutch?
 
From the link:
Quote:
API SL & API SM formulations still directly contradict JASO-MA/MA1/MA2 standards because of the use of friction modifiers

He's wrong about the SL & SM specs and friction modifiers. If the oils are ILSAC GF-3 or GF-4 or the near-future GF-5, yes they contain friction modifiers. API's SL, SM, and new SN permit friction modifiers but do not require them.

Anyway, do we know of anyone who has had clutch failure using friction-modified oil? Myself and many of others run Schaeffer oils with their big slug of "Micron Moly" and Schaeffer's super-secret Penetro "These two proven frictional modifiers once plated form a long lasting slippery tenacious lubricant film...." and no reports of wet clutch failures in my bikes or dozens of Gold Wing riders my rep sells to, etc.
 
According to my Lubrizol presentation, the MA2 oils are "SM, SL, or SJ core" oils with different friction modifiers and a lot of wet clutch and other tests.

They show different results when the different "core" oils are used in blending, with the SM giving 2 to 3 times the benefits of the SJ in most tests and twice the level when blended with the SL "core".
 
Originally Posted By: Ken2
He's wrong about the SL & SM specs and friction modifiers. If the oils are ILSAC GF-3 or GF-4 or the near-future GF-5, yes they contain friction modifiers. API's SL, SM, and new SN permit friction modifiers but do not require them.

Agreed. Just because an oil is rated API SM/SN, does not automatically mean it is energy conserving and has a ton of friction modifiers. In addition, API SM/SN has introduced different add pack limits on various grades, so while Xw-30 grades have been severely limited, Xw-40 and Xw-50 grades have not. And I don't recall off the top of my head any JASO MA oils in Xw-30 grade.
 
Originally Posted By: Pako
I am seeing MA-2 on oil labels. I am familiar with MA, But just what is MA-2?

thank you


It is the sequel to Jaso MA
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it seems the sm/sl jaso ma2 oil has less phosphorus and sulfated ash which is supposedly damaging to a catalyst which most motorcycles come equipped with since 2007 or so..and that sequel is even more spendy
 
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I just checked my new Castrol Power RS R4 4T 10w50 and it is SL, JASO MA2. This oil is specifically speced for my 2011 Triumph so I doubt it will hurt the CAT.

Just don't forget it is liquid engineering....
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Did you guys read that pdf at the link that Quattro Pete posted? It's a excellent description of the motorcycle specs. It doesn't precisely describe how they test for static and dynamic friction but otherwise it's all layed out.

Oils must be of these quality levels:

API SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM(excluding SM/EC), SN(excluding SN/RC)

ILSAC GF-1, GF-2, GF-3

ACEA A1/B1, A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2,C3,C4

and be of these physiochemical properties:

Sulfated ash 1.2% max

Phosphorus content between .08% and .12% max

evap. loss 20% max

HT/HS 2.9 min

and, they're allowed to shear out of grade to the following kinematic viscosities:

XW-30 can go down to 9cSt
XW-40 can go down to 12cSt
XW-50 can go down to 15cSt
all other grades must stay in grade

And of course there are definitions for the frictional characteristics of the oils. MA2 offers the highest level of friction. MB offers the lowest level and not recommended for wet clutches. MA1 is the low friction side of the MA spec.

Very fascinating reading.
 
Hello everyone,

If I understand correctly, JASO MA2 specification has been designed quite recently for bikes with catalytic converter. The specification is dated 2006.

Since it contains less phosphors to protect catalytic converters it may actually do less "engine wear protection" than JASO MA1.

I am correct in my assumptions?

The reason I am asking is because I am currently using CASTROL POWER 1 RACING 4T 10W-40 which is JASO MA2. However I see a nice appealing prices for Valvoline SynPower 4T 10W-40 which is JASO MA.

Since my bike does not have catalytic converter I am wondering if I can get a better anti wear protection if I switch from JASO MA2 to JASO MA.
 
Originally Posted By: volodymyr


Since my bike does not have catalytic converter I am wondering if I can get a better anti wear protection if I switch from JASO MA2 to JASO MA.


No one is wearing out their engines so you might as well run the freest flowing oil
recommended in your manual and enjoy the extra HP...
 
Where did anyone come up with a connection between the API Service Category and the wet clutch spec? MA2 is simply the higher friction half of the MA spec split in two. MA1 is the lower friction half of MA.

MA2 is newer, and may be connected with newer Service Categories, but does that mean anything beyond the matter of the timing of the issuance of the spec? I can't find anything to document that.
 
The MA, MA1 and MA2 standards refer to the quality of the oil also having to meet at least one of the API, ILSAC or ACEA standards (Table 3 in the JASO link) and the physiochemical requirements in table 4. So the MA standards then come in over the top.

Every reference to oil to be used in bikes that I have seen only refer to meeting MA standards, but newer bikes may refer to MA2 alone - my 2014 Triumph Trophy only refers to MA, so MA1 or MA2 will do - if an oil meets a mix of MA1 or MA2 then it will simply be MA.

No wonder there is so much confusion around.
 
Ah...the document is for motorcycle engine oil. The oils must meet the requirements for both the engine and the wet clutch. It is not the requirement of the MA standards to meet the other specs---it is the requirement of JASO T 903:2011 to meet BOTH engine and clutch standards.

An oil might meet either the clutch friction standards (table 2.1) or the four cycle oil quality standards (table 3) but not both and therefore not qualify to be listed as a JASO T 903:2011 qualified motorcycle engine oil.
 
Originally Posted By: saaz


[...]

my 2014 Triumph Trophy only refers to MA, so MA1 or MA2 will do - if an oil meets a mix of MA1 or MA2 then it will simply be MA.

[...]



More or less same for me. But still if you have a choice between MA1 and MA2 it is better to know which one is better in terms of engine wear protection
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OTOH, I drive my bike usually less than 600 km per year, and yet I change the oil yearly. Something tells me that with such low kilometrage there is not so much difference between the MA1 or MA2.

I use MA2 though.
 
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