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#1878840 - 05/02/10 10:15 PM Mobil 1 AFE 0W30
outrun Offline


Registered: 11/26/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: Texas & BWI Area
Quick question,

My application is easy on almost anything you put in it. An earlier post criticizes M1 AFE 0W30 for being only ACEA A1/B1. Now my interval will sit in a conservative 7500-10,000 mile window.

Does A1 necessarily mean this some kind of stoutness dumbed down oil? The poster was alluding to the fact this is basically cheap stuff no better than a basic conventional.
The general view of the board is that XOM products and the M1 line are good. Granted we tend to nit pick the heck out of any lubricants wink

This leads me to the second question. Based on the specs which one below meets the strictest test criterion? I tried to study the ACEA test charts but its still above my head using undergrad level chemistry & engineering knowledge. I could only guess that higher alphanumeric ACEA signify higher ratings.

In comparison:

M1 EP 5W30: A1/A5, B1/B5
M1 5W30: A1/A5, B1/B5
M1 0W40: A3, B3/B4
M1 ESP 5W30: A3/B3, A3/B4

Source: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Oils.aspx

Thanks-


Edited by outrun (05/02/10 10:16 PM)

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#1878891 - 05/02/10 11:03 PM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: outrun]
rewote500 Offline


Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 358
Loc: GA


Edited by rewote500 (05/02/10 11:03 PM)
_________________________
Education is learning what you didn't even know you didn't know.

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#1878905 - 05/02/10 11:17 PM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: outrun]
sbergman27 Offline


Registered: 03/12/10
Posts: 371
Loc: Oklahoma
One of the requirements of ACEA A5 is that the oil stay in grade. It is commonly said that 0w30 shears to a thick 20 grade, although in the UOA's of M1 0w30 I've seen, that's been the exception rather than the rule.

Note also, as an aside, that another requirement of A5 is an HTHS of 2.9+. This disqualifies pretty much any 0w20 from even playing.

Regarding 0w30 being "cheap stuff"... the Japanese material safety data sheets have to specify mineral oil content. IIRC, 0w30 contains only 10%-15% mineral (presumably group III) oil. And the standard 5w30 product contains 40% - 50% mineral oil. I think the 0w20 product contains 5% - 10%.

So say what you will about group III vs PAO and esters... 0w30 is certainly not "cheap stuff".

Also note that while some people say things like "0w30 AFE was designed for fuel economy so..." this is not really the case. It was designed as one of the first 0w30 oils, providing improved protection over an extended range of temperatures. Mobil is very open about the fact the the "Fuel Economy" marketing thing was tacked on later.


Edited by sbergman27 (05/02/10 11:22 PM)

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#1878954 - 05/03/10 12:09 AM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: sbergman27]
Audi Junkie Offline


Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 11247
Loc: PA
A1 is basicly 80% of the capacity of an A5 oil.

A5 is quite a good spec, something I look for.

I dunno the appeal of AFE 0w-30, PP 5w-30 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.
_________________________
2008 Opel Astra 1.8 VVT 5M
2010 VW Tiguan 2.0 TSI 6M
(APR Powered)

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#1878977 - 05/03/10 12:59 AM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: Audi Junkie]
sbergman27 Offline


Registered: 03/12/10
Posts: 371
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
A1 is basicly 80% of the capacity of an A5 oil.

A5 is about extended drains. I'm not sure what you mean by the nebulous term "capacity".

Quote:
I dunno the appeal of AFE 0w-30, PP 5w-30 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.

Except in the cold:

PP 5w30: MRV @ -35C 14,800
M1 0w30: MRV @ -40C 11,100

And at 150C:

PP 5w30: HTHS 3.10
M1 0w30: HTHS 2.99

So... the M1 0w30 has better cold cranking and yields better fuel economy than the PP 5w30.

Kinesmatic viscosity at 40C and 100C are lower for PP 5w30. But who cares?

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#1879029 - 05/03/10 05:13 AM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: sbergman27]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29217
Loc: NJ
I think AFE 0w30 is one of Mobil's better grades. I like this oil.
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#1879066 - 05/03/10 07:11 AM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: buster]
orlzx6r Offline


Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 166
Loc: Utah
I've noticed Mobil 1 0W-30 and also Mobil 1 5W-30 no longer meet ACEA A5. Mobil has done something to the formula and not for the better. The latest VOA's show 5W-30 has a TBN of around 8, not good if you plan to run extended drains. M1 5W-30 EP is a different story...

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#1879120 - 05/03/10 08:35 AM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: orlzx6r]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 9954
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: orlzx6r
I've noticed Mobil 1 0W-30 and also Mobil 1 5W-30 no longer meet ACEA A5. Mobil has done something to the formula and not for the better. The latest VOA's show 5W-30 has a TBN of around 8, not good if you plan to run extended drains. M1 5W-30 EP is a different story...


M1 5-30 does meet ACEA A5. Here is the link. Also M1 5-30 is outstanding in high heat deposit control as it is one of the few oils meeting the Honda HTO-06 high temperature spec. M1 5-30 is still fine for 10K OCIs as many people do that with no problems.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.asp
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 146,000 miles
M1 0-20
2007 Ford Focus 130,000 miles
M1 0-20
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE

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#1879130 - 05/03/10 08:45 AM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: tig1]
daman Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 10489
Loc: Bad Axe, MI
I do 7-9k on AFE all the time,i've also use AFE in heavy towing applications, the oil plain works man!!
_________________________
"Always"....Mobil 1

Current fill: AFE 0w30

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#1879160 - 05/03/10 09:32 AM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: sbergman27]
Audi Junkie Offline


Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 11247
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: sbergman27
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
A1 is basicly 80% of the capacity of an A5 oil.

A5 is about extended drains. I'm not sure what you mean by the nebulous term "capacity".

Quote:
I dunno the appeal of AFE 0w-30, PP 5w-30 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.

Except in the cold:

PP 5w30: MRV @ -35C 14,800
M1 0w30: MRV @ -40C 11,100

And at 150C:

PP 5w30: HTHS 3.10
M1 0w30: HTHS 2.99

So... the M1 0w30 has better cold cranking and yields better fuel economy than the PP 5w30.

Kinesmatic viscosity at 40C and 100C are lower for PP 5w30. But who cares?



Maybe you can explain how M1 delivers better fuel economy when it's thicker? Texas doesn't see -35f often, more like +35f.

PP is thinner at operating temp, but delivers slightly greater HT/HS, you think that's a BAD thing??? Wowza. You need to read up some before posting that nonsense.

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RP/PC/index.html

You don't understand the "capacity" of an oil, but reference extended drains??? Holy smokes, you're just being obstinate.

Sad.

Like I said, PP is better, and thinner.






_________________________
2008 Opel Astra 1.8 VVT 5M
2010 VW Tiguan 2.0 TSI 6M
(APR Powered)

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#1879301 - 05/03/10 11:43 AM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: tig1]
orlzx6r Offline


Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 166
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: orlzx6r
I've noticed Mobil 1 0W-30 and also Mobil 1 5W-30 no longer meet ACEA A5. Mobil has done something to the formula and not for the better. The latest VOA's show 5W-30 has a TBN of around 8, not good if you plan to run extended drains. M1 5W-30 EP is a different story...


M1 5-30 does meet ACEA A5. Here is the link. Also M1 5-30 is outstanding in high heat deposit control as it is one of the few oils meeting the Honda HTO-06 high temperature spec. M1 5-30 is still fine for 10K OCIs as many people do that with no problems.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.asp


I stand corrected... weird that the bottles only indicate ACEA A1 and no mention of A5.

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#1879309 - 05/03/10 11:52 AM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: Audi Junkie]
sbergman27 Offline


Registered: 03/12/10
Posts: 371
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Maybe you can explain how M1 delivers better fuel economy when it's thicker?


Sure.

It has been well established, empirically, that fuel economy correlates with the HTHS viscosity, but not with kinematic viscosity. To the extent that there is a loose correlation of kinematic to HTHS viscosity, people get the impression that it's the kinematic viscosity that really matters.

As an example, if you take a collection of multi-vis oils and plot overall engine friction, you see some correlation between both 100C kinematic and HTHS viscosities, and friction. And if you take a collection of single-vis oils, you will find the same. But if you try to put both sets of oils into one table, the correlation based upon kinematic viscosity falls apart. But the correlation based upon HTHS viscosity still works. This is because most of the friction comes from places where the oil is working under high shear conditions, and at local temperatures closer to 150C than to 100C. Pumping losses are probably more closely related to kinematic viscosity. But those are small compared to friction in the bearings and piston rings.

Does that clarify the matter? I can dig up a paper or two if you'd like.

Now, perhaps you would like to clarify exactly what you mean by 'capacity' in this context?

-Steve


Edited by sbergman27 (05/03/10 11:58 AM)

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#1879343 - 05/03/10 12:20 PM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: Audi Junkie]
sbergman27 Offline


Registered: 03/12/10
Posts: 371
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
PP is thinner at operating temp, but delivers slightly greater HT/HS, you think that's a BAD thing???

It's either good or bad depending upon what you are looking for. From an FE standpoint, lower HTHS is good. From the standpoint of wear under EP conditions, when all you have is the oil film strength separating the parts, higher HTHS is good. But when you consider the additive packages (compounds of moly, phosphorus, etc.) then HTHS becomes less important in this context, because when the oil film alone cannot maintain separation, the organic moly, or whatever, can and does.

Ideally, you'd like to see a very low HTHS, for FE, combined with a very effective EP additive, like organic moly, for the best of both worlds.

FWIW, while both M1 0w30 and PP 5w30 use moly, the M1 has about 75% more of it. Phosphorus and zinc are comparable between the two. But there could be other EP additives which don't show up on a UOA, so we have to be careful about what conclusions we draw.

BTW, when you say "thinner at operating temp, but delivers slightly greater HT/HS" you are contradicting yourself. You do understand that the HT/HS describes (usually in units of mPa·s) the oil's viscosity at the working surfaces at normal operating temperature, right?


Edited by sbergman27 (05/03/10 12:29 PM)

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#1879559 - 05/03/10 04:18 PM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: sbergman27]
ArtDart Offline


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 341
Loc: Missouri
I just put M1 0w30 in my newish Hyundai @ 1340 mi,
replacing PYB 5w20. 1st tank of gas averaged 34.6 MPG,
best tank average so far, but there hasn't been too many.
Not saying it's the oil.....just saying....

Maybe the shards of iron are helping to shear
the oil faster than usual....

jringo
_________________________
'09 Hyundai Accent SE 1.6L - QS Defy 5w30/OEM
'95 Nissan Frontier XE 2.4L - VML 5w30/Fram TG



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#1879609 - 05/03/10 05:18 PM Re: Mobil 1 AFE 0W30 [Re: ArtDart]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29217
Loc: NJ
Supposedly, their 0w oils contain the most PAO. M1 AFE ran great in the Honda. No complaints. It will certainly keep your engine clean and deposit free, especially in high temperatures. Clean is the big deal these days....
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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