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#1878240 - 05/02/10 11:10 AM Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn
mjw930 Offline


Registered: 05/02/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Florida
I'm at the first normal OCI (2500 mi) for my new Victory Cross Country (106ci) and am considering what oil to use. I've been a long time fan of M1 oils and am leaning towards the M4T but there's a lot to be said for the V-Twin oil's higher flash point. On the flip side, Rotella's new T6 really interests me.

Victory places a lot of dependency on the oils ability to cool the motor and I'm thinking their 40W hot viscosity spec plays to that. I'm a bit hesitant to go with a 20W-50, mostly because of this. I'm also pretty sure the low 5W or 10W number on the T6 and M4T respectively should not be a concern but I'm posting this here to see what the collective knowledge here can offer.

As I've said, I'm down to these 3 oils, in this order (and yes, Amsoil IS NOT on my list):

M1 M4T
T6
M1 V-Twin

For reference cost is not an issue so the fact some can be purchased for less and WallyWorld is irrelevant to me as are extended OCI's. I'm looking for a good technical discussion, not a cost / benefit analysis.

Thoughts, suggestions, rants?????

Thanks.


Edited by mjw930 (05/02/10 11:13 AM)

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#1878307 - 05/02/10 12:12 PM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: mjw930]
beast3300 Offline


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 2972
Loc: Ohio
There was a post recently of a gentleman that switched from M1 to T6 and was extremely happy. Having said that, my buddy is getting ready to pull his bike out of mothballs. It's a 04 SV650 that he normally runs 10w40 Suzuki branded oil in. He is going to try T6 in his.

If T6 has the specs for your Victory Cross Country then I would give it a try.
_________________________
'03 Regal GS L67: PUP 5w30/XG3980, Filtermag

'99 Grand Prix L36: Pennzoil Dexos blend 5w30/PF52E, Filtermag


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#1878349 - 05/02/10 12:51 PM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: beast3300]
Johnny Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 14013
Loc: Retired | Wausau, WI
As much as I like the T6 product, I would run the Mobil 1 V-Twin oil in the Victory.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSENPVLMOMobil1_Motorcycle_Oils.asp

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#1879374 - 05/03/10 12:56 PM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: Johnny]
mjw930 Offline


Registered: 05/02/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Florida
There are running threads on most of the popular Victory boards regarding oils (as appear on virtually every motor sports board). The general consensus based on anecdotal evidence from some mechanics and riders is that full synthetic WILL NOT WORK in this motor/trans package due to clutch slippage.

Every time I push back to understand what makes the clutch package in a Victory so different that it can't withstand oil used in millions of other wet clutch applications I get branded a heretic for saying there's something "wrong" with their beloved Victory's. I can't get a straight answer and it's starting to [censored] me off.

The latest response was this:

Quote:
One more thought on Vics "Problem" with the clutch. I said earlier that the available testing does not cover the unique criteria of the Vic. One big factor being that these are 700+ pound bikes[wet] That make 90+FtLb around 2500RPM Vs the high winding sportbikes that make 160HP, but just clear 80FtLb in a machine weighing less the 400 pounds


I guess that negates all the Harley's Goldwings and BMW touring bikes out there that have run full synthetics in their transmissions for millions of miles.....

Almost everyone who has run full syn in their Victory's has commented it smoothed out the transmission and quieted the top end. It will really suck if I can't take advantage of the benefits of full synthetic without trashing the clutch.


Edited by mjw930 (05/03/10 12:56 PM)

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#1879424 - 05/03/10 02:03 PM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: mjw930]
Norm Olt Offline


Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1817
Loc: Pac NW
Give the AMSOIL AME 15W-40 a try. Worked great for me in the past, as does the AMO 10W-40 product.

Cheers!
_________________________
01ValkyrieIS 6K
93ZX-11D 30K
87F250 183K
88420SEL 178K
88420SEL 212K (parts)
91420SEL 228K
92SVX 182K
00Nighthawk250 1.5K
93SC400 95K
85F150 4.9 103K

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#1879501 - 05/03/10 03:24 PM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: Norm Olt]
Scooter_man Offline


Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 294
Loc: Missouri, USA
You might even try the Rotella 15w40 - many on here use it and have for years in motorcycles (including myself, before I discovered 5w40 Syn).

Being an HDEO and quite a stout add-pack, i'm sure that it would do fine in your Victory.

Rob
_________________________
Rob

Member of the 100+ mpg Club!

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#1879578 - 05/03/10 04:48 PM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: Scooter_man]
mjw930 Offline


Registered: 05/02/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Florida
Others have commented that 15W-40 Rotella works well. I am a synthetic bigot, I wish i could sort out these supposed clutch issues and not have to resort to dyno juice.


Edited by mjw930 (05/03/10 04:49 PM)

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#1880429 - 05/04/10 11:49 AM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: mjw930]
Norm Olt Offline


Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1817
Loc: Pac NW
Simple: don't use an oil marked as "Energy Conserving I or II". The fact that an oil THAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR USE WITH A WET CLUTCH is of 100%, 50%, 20% or 10% synthetic content doesn't change the way it works with a wet clutch.

An all dino oil could still have wet clutch issues.

Cheers!

p.s. Much more likely with "normal" cage oils rather than HDEO's, just about anything that is 15W-XX or higher.

p.p.s. Sorry about missing the "Amsoil is NOT on my list" in the O/P'ing. But, why?
_________________________
01ValkyrieIS 6K
93ZX-11D 30K
87F250 183K
88420SEL 178K
88420SEL 212K (parts)
91420SEL 228K
92SVX 182K
00Nighthawk250 1.5K
93SC400 95K
85F150 4.9 103K

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#1880942 - 05/04/10 08:38 PM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: Norm Olt]
itsalex Offline


Registered: 10/20/07
Posts: 38
Loc: LA CA
I have 3 Victories, a 99 92c original, 01 sport crusier, & 05 Hammer with a SS 106 strocker kit. I generaly use the Mobil 1 motorcycle 10w40 raceing oil, or the 10w40 motorcycle Amsoil oil, all with excellent results, I did just change to Redline motorcycle 20w50, because thats what I use in my Ducati Hypermotard track bike, Redline is ester based and IS excellent for lubricating HOT metals, and guess what? My Victory now shifts better, hmmmmm, look like I'll stick with the Redline for a while. Aloha Alex

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#1881268 - 05/05/10 07:35 AM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: Norm Olt]
mjw930 Offline


Registered: 05/02/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Florida
Norm,

I hear what you are saying and I never intended to try cager oils. The problem I have is the people who claim to have the most experience and who are considered my many to be the "experts" are insistent that ONLY semi-synthetic MC oils will work with the Victory wet clutch and ALL full synthetic MC oils will cause high RPM (if you call 5000 rpm high) clutch slippage.

It makes no sense and flies against conventional wisdom but they keep siting how "special" this application is and how much time and money went into Polaris' work with Lube-Tech to create the "magical" Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn oil.

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#1881304 - 05/05/10 08:22 AM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: mjw930]
BigCahuna Offline


Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 1180
Loc: Deep in the heart of Jersey
A UOA will show how "special" amd "magical" their own labeled oil is.In the voa section, I know the tests are 5 years old showed Redline, to have about the highest levels of moly in any oil listed. Lots of people use it and I think I have only read one instance where someone claimed it caused their clutch to slip. But I would bet it was due to and abused out of adjustment clutch.,,

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#1881420 - 05/05/10 10:19 AM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: BigCahuna]
warchildindy Offline


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 110
Loc: indiana, usa
mjw930;

Hello. I can definitely empathize in choosing an oil for your Victory.

I owned a "05" Victory Hammer and thought the Victory oil was over-priced for a synthetic blend, but it did the job.

I used Amsoil motorcylce 20w-50 and Mobil V-Twin 20w-50 with great results.

I went to the Victory Motorcyle Club forum and found that Amsoil, Mobil-1 (10w-40, 15w-50 red cap, 20w-50), Redline, Victory brand, Rotella 15w-40 HDEO, and Synthetic Rotella 5w-40 HDEO (before the JASO certification for both HDEOs) were used by Victory owners.

It seemed that a lot of the owners liked the Rotella 5w-40. Truthfully, I was skeptical until I tried it.

Motor sounded good and I had the best clutch engagement ever, even better than the other oils. Clutch control adjustments were the same on all oils used. So that was not a factor.

I kept the ocis between 2500 to 3000 miles for severe service.

I am again in the same boat with another bike brand that demands a particular oil brand in 10w-40 and 15w-50 with a shared sump like the Victory.

Once again, I tried them both, the oil is over priced and the 15w-50 can only be bought at the dealer/stealer.

I am currently using the Rotella JASO RT6 HDEO with great results. I use 3000 mile ocis for severe service.

Motor sounds good and I like the clutch engagement better than the other brand, that was supposedly designed specifically for that brand of clutch. Go figure.

Good luck in your quest.


Edited by warchildindy (05/05/10 10:27 AM)

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#1883259 - 05/07/10 06:37 AM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: Norm Olt]
Ken2 Offline


Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 6068
Loc: Washington St.
Originally Posted By: Norm Olt
don't use an oil marked as "Energy Conserving I or II".

No oil 40 wt or higher can be issued an Energy Conserving label. It is only available to oils that qualify in the viscosities of 0W-20 to 10W-30.
_________________________
Every gun that is made, every warship launched..a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Gen. Eisenhower


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#1883657 - 05/07/10 01:48 PM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: Ken2]
dwendt44 Offline


Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 3571
Loc: Central Wisconsin
SOME 30 weights don't have the star either.
Rotella 10W-30, IIRC doesn't.
Honda and other cycle oils are now available in 10W-30.
Still, air cooled engines need the 40 or 50 weight.
_________________________
There's no such thing as:
Too big of a battery,
Too large of a gas tank,
or too loud of a horn,
or too bright headlights.

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#1884995 - 05/09/10 06:17 AM Re: Best alternative for Victory 20W-40 Semi-Syn [Re: dwendt44]
bmwtechguy Offline


Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 2522
Loc: South Carolina
In hot FL, I cannot see how a 20W-50 oil would not work perfectly in that oil/air-cooled motor. Our friends just bought his and hers Victory bikes and found out yesterday they are using Amsoil 20W-50 motorcylce oil that was recommended by a Victory tech, and said they have perfectly smooth clutch engagement.

The Victory oil being 20W-40 is most likely a great oil, but overpriced for what it is, a multi-viscosity oil with little or no VII to shear, and optimized for wet clutch use.

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