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#1869743 - 04/24/10 07:54 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: mechjames]
Vizzy Offline


Registered: 04/26/09
Posts: 1183
Loc: Canada
NO!

Most of what you see that you THINK is a cleaning process is simply the smoke from the light oil and solvents that are used in seafoam, in reality there is very little cleaning going on with this stuff.

Best is to use a high detergent oil in your crankcase like Shell Rotella ....and use a 35% or more concentration of PEA based bottle of complete fuel system cleaner in your fuel system.

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#1870285 - 04/25/10 09:24 AM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: mechjames]
mechtech2 Offline


Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 19479
Loc: Chicago Area
MH HEMI - Learn to read.
Then, if you want to rant, go ahead.

You are using isogesis , not exogesis.

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#1870422 - 04/25/10 11:17 AM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: DragRace]
pavelow Offline


Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Orange Park, FL
I'd use Diesel/HDEO and a high quality oil filter for a few oil changes before I used Seafoam. The extra detergents in the oil should clean out the engine gradually over time. FWIW, I think most people use Seafoam just because they like the smoke show it creates. lol
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#1870628 - 04/25/10 03:07 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: pavelow]
Audi Junkie Offline


Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 11247
Loc: PA
I'm emailing a few gasket mfgs a list of Seafoam ingredients to inquire of their compatibility. Next week I'll post their replies, which should clarify the issue.

Place your bets.

My "offer of proof" is simple. Everyone knows what brake cleaner is, right? It's a solvent that is formulated specifically not to be harmful to the rubber components in brake systems, because the ingredients in other spray solvents like Gumout, et al, simply turn rubber into mush.

If anyone with more expertise and patience would compare the CAS# and ingredient lists of Seafoam and Gumout/Carb Cleaner, it would be enlightening for the purposes of this discussion.

I suspect there is some overlap. My guess is that hot alcohol and acetone or whatever are NOT the best for seals. I could be wrong.
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2008 Opel Astra 1.8 VVT 5M
2010 VW Tiguan 2.0 TSI 6M
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#1870679 - 04/25/10 04:07 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: BobFout]
sbergman27 Offline


Registered: 03/12/10
Posts: 371
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Name one manufacturer that recommends any additive. Fuel or oil. Given that's...zero..all fuel and oil additives are unsafe?

Auto manufacturers go further than that. They recommend against using additives. Oil makers advise against additives more frequently than do the auto manufacturers. Mainly because additives generally are useless, and are more likely to do harm than to do good.

The purpose of additives like "SeaFoam" is to make the additive maker a few bucks and to provide Autozone with an object for suggestive sales, at the expense of the gullible consumer. I got hit up for Seafoam at the register just a couple of days ago. No thanks.

-Steve

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#1870681 - 04/25/10 04:11 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: mechjames]
c3po Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 3358
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: mechjames
Any manufacturers recommend AutoRX? MMO? This is BITOG. We play around.
LOL

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#1870687 - 04/25/10 04:17 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: sbergman27]
Vizzy Offline


Registered: 04/26/09
Posts: 1183
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: sbergman27
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Name one manufacturer that recommends any additive. Fuel or oil. Given that's...zero..all fuel and oil additives are unsafe?

Auto manufacturers go further than that. They recommend against using additives. Oil makers advise against additives more frequently than do the auto manufacturers. Mainly because additives generally are useless, and are more likely to do harm than to do good.

The purpose of additives like "SeaFoam" is to make the additive maker a few bucks and to provide Autozone with an object for suggestive sales, at the expense of the gullible consumer. I got hit up for Seafoam at the register just a couple of days ago. No thanks.

-Steve



Very accurate statement.

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#1870716 - 04/25/10 04:50 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: Audi Junkie]
znode Offline


Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 258
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie

If anyone with more expertise and patience would compare the CAS# and ingredient lists of Seafoam and Gumout/Carb Cleaner, it would be enlightening for the purposes of this discussion.

I suspect there is some overlap. My guess is that hot alcohol and acetone or whatever are NOT the best for seals. I could be wrong.


Here you go. I put identical/equivalent components in the same rows:






Clearly Seafoam is nearly identical to the Gumout carb cleaner, minus a tiny tad of MEK, and propane, which I'm guessing is being used as a propellant in this case.

The brake cleaner here is primarily acetone and methanol with CO2 as propellant.
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#1870734 - 04/25/10 05:12 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: znode]
Audi Junkie Offline


Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 11247
Loc: PA
Technical analysis is always appreciated and trumps anecdotal "evidence". thumbsup
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2008 Opel Astra 1.8 VVT 5M
2010 VW Tiguan 2.0 TSI 6M
(APR Powered)

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#1870752 - 04/25/10 05:24 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: Audi Junkie]
JCCADILLACMOBILE Offline


Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 356
Loc: Indiana (For now)
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I'm emailing a few gasket mfgs a list of Seafoam ingredients to inquire of their compatibility. Next week I'll post their replies, which should clarify the issue.

Place your bets.

My "offer of proof" is simple. Everyone knows what brake cleaner is, right? It's a solvent that is formulated specifically not to be harmful to the rubber components in brake systems, because the ingredients in other spray solvents like Gumout, et al, simply turn rubber into mush.

If anyone with more expertise and patience would compare the CAS# and ingredient lists of Seafoam and Gumout/Carb Cleaner, it would be enlightening for the purposes of this discussion.

I suspect there is some overlap. My guess is that hot alcohol and acetone or whatever are NOT the best for seals. I could be wrong.


Post #3 for me today..

Audi Junkie, i admire your Statement "I could be wrong." This makes me take you more seriously.

Now, znode posted up an Ingredients list.. which i must say, makes them look DIFFERENT to me! .. But one question: If "Gumpout brake Parts Cleaner" is SAFE for Rubber Seals.. then WHY wouldnt SeaFoam, seeing as its a "Light Cleaner" on top of that, be HARMFUL to seals?

confused Either you just undercut your own argument, or...

Now, ive PMed a user here that puts --B-12 CHEMTOOL-- (!!!!) in the Oil BETWEEN Changes, so that it can "Soak In" and Knock some Sludge LOOSE, and Loosen it up REAL NICE! ... Seems to be AGAINST a "Gradual Cleaning" like SeaFoam...

Look. Seems they DONT recommend "Additives." But they DO selll "Sealers" for Cooling Systems (GM - Cadillac - NorthStar,) and OTHEER things.. so its the same principle from Manufacturers!!!

PRO for SeaFoam:

1) its a "LightCleaner" and SOME people say it makes their engine VERY Clean;
2) Many POSITIVE Reviewsd for it;
3) Few and Far Bewteen "SeaFoam Broke my Car" Stories.. seems it gets Burned Off and cleans "Lightly," being Petroleum-based.
4) Surely, the MIX of ingredients makes it DISSOLVE things like Sludge, GUM and VARNISH.. which im SURE has a DIFFERENT chemical make-up than "Seals!"

(To compare: People think Valvoline MaxLife is "Bad" because it "Swells" seals by "Dissolving" them. But MaxLife is a Good Oil!! .> See what im saying?)

CONS for SeaFoam:

1) People say its an "Additive," and its not; its a "Cleaner" with Multiple Uses, and SeaFoam's engineers have made it NOT Eat Gaskets and such;
2) Its not in the Oil already;
3) People at AutoZone DO sell it in people's faces, btu SeaFoam, B-12, Lucas, and techron are the ONLY ones that do ANYTHING, the STP, GumOut (no matter HOW its packed, wetc.) are Useless, and the Parts stores remain Pushy Parts places.

I know I can see mysef "Putting it in the Crankcase 100 miles before an Oil Change" then chainging Oil and Filter... the SEAFOAM and whatever it may have "LOOSENED" (Light cleaner, means "Some Not Much".. but nonetheless, taking SOME Sludge out, as Engine Flushes DO make issues..) .. and using MaxLife oil as well,. for Cleaning AND Sealing.. in case -SOME- Sludge is helping sela a gasket?

And as an aside.. Can an Engine with a Lot of Sludge have High Oil Pressures, OR what other issues cna a "Severely Sludged" Engine Experience?

And is a 1985 4.2L Inline-6 Engine a "Known Sludger?"

Thanks! TTYT!
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1985 Jaguar XJ6 4.2L I6 Holds "9 Quarts"... Taking care of this car!

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#1870756 - 04/25/10 05:29 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: JCCADILLACMOBILE]
Audi Junkie Offline


Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 11247
Loc: PA
I think you have it backwards.

What I'm suggesting is that components of brake cleaner are safe(er) to rubber parts, like in brake calipers, and components of carb cleaner are highly unsafe for engine seals. That's why brake cleaner is formulated differently from carb cleaner. Anything on the carb cleaner list that is NOT on the brake cleaner list is BAD. (now I'm getting confused)

So, stuff in brake cleaner = ok.

Stuff in carb cleaner = bad.

Seafoam = carb cleaner.

Seafoam = bad.

Obsessing over some engine deposits to the demise of the seals is maybe not a good trade-off.
_________________________
2008 Opel Astra 1.8 VVT 5M
2010 VW Tiguan 2.0 TSI 6M
(APR Powered)

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#1870799 - 04/25/10 06:20 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: Audi Junkie]
Vizzy Offline


Registered: 04/26/09
Posts: 1183
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I think you have it backwards.

What I'm suggesting is that components of brake cleaner are safe(er) to rubber parts, like in brake calipers, and components of carb cleaner are highly unsafe for engine seals. That's why brake cleaner is formulated differently from carb cleaner. Anything on the carb cleaner list that is NOT on the brake cleaner list is BAD. (now I'm getting confused)

So, stuff in brake cleaner = ok.

Stuff in carb cleaner = bad.

Seafoam = carb cleaner.

Seafoam = bad.

Obsessing over some engine deposits to the demise of the seals is maybe not a good trade-off.



Exactly.....I'd rather have a few extra engine deposits that don't hinder the performce or reliability of the engine than a bunch of leaking engine seals!!!!!!!!!

The SeaFoam craze seems to be a case of monkey see, monkey doo! duh With folks not stopping to think about the details and just counting on the judgement of some internet guy posting something.


Edited by Vizzy (04/25/10 06:22 PM)

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#1870852 - 04/25/10 07:05 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: Vizzy]
marcre Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 288
Loc: Timonium, MD
Has anyone tried to contact the makers of SF and find out what they say about any ill effects on seals/gaskets?


I've used SF many times in the past with excellent results. Several years ago I bought a used 99 Rodeo. It made a ticking noise while driving since I first got it. I originally thought it was coming from the dash area, only to discover it was coming from the engine.

I did some research online and was told it may be a lifter tick. I was told to try some SF. I did and it was gone instantly. I know SF worked for me and I know it has worked for others.

SF has been around for a long time and I've never heard of it doing anything bad to an engine. I think if it wasn't any good we'd have heard about that by now.

It's funny that people are saying that SF isn't going to clean anything while also saying it is bad for gaskets and seals. Let me get this straight… it's not strong enough to clean, but will damage seals and gaskets? That makes no sense. Sludge isn't very "strong" and seems to me it would be cleaned up pretty easily. Like I said, I know it worked for me.

I don't care if some one doesn't want to use it, but it seems pretty irresponsible to call it harmful. Especially with out any proof. People come on here looking for answers and it does no good for anyone when people feel they can just make up anything they want.
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2007 VW Jetta

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#1870871 - 04/25/10 07:26 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: marcre]
Audi Junkie Offline


Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 11247
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: marcre
Has anyone tried to contact the makers of SF and find out what they say about any ill effects on seals/gaskets?

It seems pretty irresponsible to call it harmful. Especially with out any proof. People come on here looking for answers and it does no good for anyone when people feel they can just make up anything they want.


Wow, just wow.

What would you call "proof"? Do you think that's going to come from the makers of Seafoam?
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2008 Opel Astra 1.8 VVT 5M
2010 VW Tiguan 2.0 TSI 6M
(APR Powered)

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#1870877 - 04/25/10 07:31 PM Re: The "SeaFoam" Debate.. Yes, No, Or Maybe, and WHY? [Re: Audi Junkie]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21550
Loc: NY
I would imagine the Seafoam makers will say they tested it and it is fine. The gasket makers will probably say its harmful, and oil companies say don't use additives. Round and round we go. I've never tried Seafoam in the crankcase, but based on reading here and other sites I doubt a short run with Seafoam in the oil will ruin anything. For a full OCI if I were looking to clean up an engine I'd use something else. JMO
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