Recent Topics
d.i. turbo vs d.i. non-turbo / deposits, dilution
by wemay
07/29/14 05:31 PM
API SM, Do you miss it?
by wemay
07/29/14 05:23 PM
Drowned engine. Change oil?
by MinamiKotaro
07/29/14 05:11 PM
GM Dexos 0W-20 6,069 miles 2014 GMC Sierra 5.3
by gonefishing
07/29/14 05:05 PM
Avoid GEICO
by Maxima97
07/29/14 04:58 PM
Compound Bows to become "prohibited weapons" in Oz
by Shannow
07/29/14 04:45 PM
New Oil Change - 2005 Civic 9,694 Miles - M1 5W-20
by sarguy01
07/29/14 04:27 PM
Pureone tear and failure.
by beast3300
07/29/14 04:26 PM
Amsoil products for foam air filters?
by SwedishRider
07/29/14 04:26 PM
mobil1 blackstone
by yvon_la
07/29/14 04:17 PM
Compare M1 0W30 AFE to M1 5W30 EP
by wrf01a
07/29/14 04:16 PM
How can I tell what the offset of my wheels are?
by 7055
07/29/14 04:07 PM
Newest Members
jjs1235, Tomas, bovk, papafordboy, mrmjmab61
50794 Registered Users
Who's Online
111 registered (901Memphis, 1WildPig, aquariuscsm, asand1, 1345, 2009Edge, 9 invisible), 2039 Guests and 229 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
50794 Members
64 Forums
217001 Topics
3416505 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#1857927 - 04/14/10 09:14 PM Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's
c3po Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 3358
Loc: Maryland
I am pretty sure that we will soon be seeing some UOA's on Pennzoil Ultra, and many members will be comparing this oil to Pennzoil Platinum. I am sure if the PU UOA's do not come back as being better than PP or if they are the same then some members will be upset.

I really do not think we can compare both PU and PP by looking at UOA's. I just can't see a UOA telling us whether PU is keeping the engine as clean or cleaner than PP.

From my personal experience using PP I have noticed that it did clean up my valvetrain on my El Camino, of course I did have MMO in the oil, but I do have to give credit to PP.

Top
#1857930 - 04/14/10 09:16 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: c3po]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4294
Loc: MS
Define "the same", are we talking wear metals or shear resistance and TBN? PU should have more TBN reserve than PP, and I'm hoping Ultra 5W-30 is a little more shear resistant.

Wear metal comparison? smirk

On cleaning ability, I'll take Pennzoil's word for it... they do make both.

_________________________
2001 F150 Supercrew
1991 Mustang LX notch
1999 Mustang GT


Top
#1857935 - 04/14/10 09:19 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: c3po]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 24832
Loc: Illinoistan
Originally Posted By: c3po
I really do not think we can compare both PU and PP by looking at UOA's.

Yup, a $20 UOA was never meant to be used to compare one oil against the other, alas, people will still attempt to compare them based on it.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (Spectro 15W-50)

Top
#1857937 - 04/14/10 09:21 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: Quattro Pete]
DieselTech Offline


Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 1969
Loc: AZ
Sent it in today 7921 miles on the sample....We shall see shortly
_________________________
03 Ford F250 7.3 (Lots of Mods). Redline & baldwin 7039
07 Ford F150 fill. Penz Ultra 5-20 & Bosch 3410
99 ford F150 4.6 fill. Redline 5-30 & P1

Top
#1857938 - 04/14/10 09:21 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: Ben99GT]
BuickGN Offline


Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 3756
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT


Wear metal comparison? smirk



They will never learn. You can write post after post, real world experience in teardowns vs UOAs, and a guy with 50 years experience with fleets and the typical bitoger is still going to compare oils based on wear metals of a $20 UOA.
_________________________
84 Buick GN. 10.60@127 old times. 602hp 620lbs.
06 Acura TL. Lots of suspension and brake mods.

Top
#1857947 - 04/14/10 09:26 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: Ben99GT]
c3po Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 3358
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Define " the same "


I am talking about wear metals, of course I am saying that if a member has a few UOA's with PP and then has a few UOA's with PU and the iron numbers are the same that we cannot say that PP is just as good as PU.

The only way to measure how clean an engine really is would be to take the valve covers off or tear down the engine.

If Pennzoil is saying that PU cleans 36% more than PP then at this time I have to believe what Pennzoil is saying based on my experience from using PP.

Top
#1857959 - 04/14/10 09:34 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: c3po]
DieselTech Offline


Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 1969
Loc: AZ
So your saying if it indeed is cleaning better no matter what on the 1st OCI of this product wear metals should drop if it's a good product??

Interesting
_________________________
03 Ford F250 7.3 (Lots of Mods). Redline & baldwin 7039
07 Ford F150 fill. Penz Ultra 5-20 & Bosch 3410
99 ford F150 4.6 fill. Redline 5-30 & P1

Top
#1857962 - 04/14/10 09:36 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: BuickGN]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4294
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT


Wear metal comparison? smirk



They will never learn. You can write post after post, real world experience in teardowns vs UOAs, and a guy with 50 years experience with fleets and the typical bitoger is still going to compare oils based on wear metals of a $20 UOA.


Yep :shakeshead:

_________________________
2001 F150 Supercrew
1991 Mustang LX notch
1999 Mustang GT


Top
#1857965 - 04/14/10 09:38 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: BuickGN]
Bill in Utah Offline



Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 12781
Loc: UT
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT


Wear metal comparison? smirk



They will never learn. You can write post after post, real world experience in teardowns vs UOAs, and a guy with 50 years experience with fleets and the typical bitoger is still going to compare oils based on wear metals of a $20 UOA.


On the other hand I would say a few things;

1. Oils have improved over the last 50 years.

2. Fleet service is VERY different over passenger service.

3. If a vehicle is running fine and produces good UOAs who/why teardown?

UOAs DO have a purpose. They DO give data that is useful. PLENTY of possible life ENDING situations have been PREVENTED using UOAs so saying that teardowns is the only way to tell if something is working is a little false.

bill

Top
#1857968 - 04/14/10 09:41 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: Bill in Utah]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4294
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT


Wear metal comparison? smirk



They will never learn. You can write post after post, real world experience in teardowns vs UOAs, and a guy with 50 years experience with fleets and the typical bitoger is still going to compare oils based on wear metals of a $20 UOA.


On the other hand I would say a few things;

1. Oils have improved over the last 50 years.

2. Fleet service is VERY different over passenger service.

3. If a vehicle is running fine and produces good UOAs who/why teardown?

UOAs DO have a purpose. They DO give data that is useful. PLENTY of possible life ENDING situations have been PREVENTED using UOAs so saying that teardowns is the only way to tell if something is working is a little false.

bill


Nobody is arguing that UOAs aren't useful. They are extremely useful, just not for comparing oils based on wear metals.
_________________________
2001 F150 Supercrew
1991 Mustang LX notch
1999 Mustang GT


Top
#1857969 - 04/14/10 09:41 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: DieselTech]
c3po Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 3358
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: DieselTech
So your saying if it indeed is cleaning better no matter what on the 1st OCI of this product wear metals should drop if it's a good product??

Interesting


My thought is if this PU is doing a good job of cleaning then maybe this oil will have an easier time flowing through the engine since there is less junk obstructing the oil flow.

I always thought if you were using a different oil it would take maybe the 2nd or 3rd Oil Analysis to make a comparison.


Hopefully Johnny or Gary Allan chimes in. grin

Top
#1857974 - 04/14/10 09:45 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: DieselTech]
GROUCHO MARX Offline


Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 11410
Loc: The Sandhills of NewYorkistan
Originally Posted By: DieselTech
Sent it in today 7921 miles on the sample....We shall see shortly



Yes we shall! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha.
_________________________
80% of people polled say that their neighbor should take mass transit to work.

Top
#1857980 - 04/14/10 09:50 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: DieselTech]
c3po Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 3358
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: DieselTech
Sent it in today 7921 miles on the sample....We shall see shortly


DieselTech, what oil were you using on your last OCI.

Top
#1857990 - 04/14/10 09:57 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: Ben99GT]
Bill in Utah Offline



Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 12781
Loc: UT
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT

Nobody is arguing that UOAs aren't useful. They are extremely useful, just not for comparing oils based on wear metals.


So we can tell when a engine is having a problem with a UOA when the metals start to increase but if the UOA metals increase with one oil but not the other the data is not valid?

What would cause a UOA to show higher metals with one oil but not another?

To me it does not matter since the only time I've had to tear apart a motor is when a UOA showed coolant leaks. (twice). All the other engines I've taken well past 200k I never ran a UOA.

But UOAs do show something IMO. Most the people saying that they don't is becuase their oil does not do well with them. (and when it does the UOA is valid)

Just my 3 cents.

Bill

Top
#1858000 - 04/14/10 10:01 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra & UOA's [Re: Ben99GT]
BuickGN Offline


Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 3756
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT


Wear metal comparison? smirk



They will never learn. You can write post after post, real world experience in teardowns vs UOAs, and a guy with 50 years experience with fleets and the typical bitoger is still going to compare oils based on wear metals of a $20 UOA.


On the other hand I would say a few things;

1. Oils have improved over the last 50 years.

2. Fleet service is VERY different over passenger service.

3. If a vehicle is running fine and produces good UOAs who/why teardown?

UOAs DO have a purpose. They DO give data that is useful. PLENTY of possible life ENDING situations have been PREVENTED using UOAs so saying that teardowns is the only way to tell if something is working is a little false.

bill


Nobody is arguing that UOAs aren't useful. They are extremely useful, just not for comparing oils based on wear metals.


That was exactly my point. Somehow it always gets turned around into people putting words into my mouth and assuming I think they're worthless.
_________________________
84 Buick GN. 10.60@127 old times. 602hp 620lbs.
06 Acura TL. Lots of suspension and brake mods.

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >