Winter run of Petro Can. 0W30 in GM 3.6 L DI

[21Rouge]

I have attached UOAs from two labs (BStone and Toromont) for samples of Petro Canada 0W30 for the same 4.5 month winter OCI in an 2009 Traverse. Of course the #s don't perfectly compare but they are much closer than I thought would be the case. I am glad to see this accuracy.

[I sent in a sample to BLACKSTONE (allowing for easier comparison/trending as the previous 3 *consecutive* UOAs on this car were done by BStone for the same oil QH5W30) AND I passed along a sample to TOROMONT (to establish a baseline with this lab as I am at the end of my prepaids with BStone)].

Although this is the longest OCI in terms of time and distance of any I have done for this car I had planned to go to 5k miles with this oil but looking at the excessive shear and low TBN I am glad I did drain it when I did.

For sure I do realize that winter cold and winter driving i.e cold weather idling coupled with short tripping is just asking for excess fuel in a DI engine but I am still a bit surprised at the amount detected. And it likely would have been even more except that I did drive it at hwy speed for about 10 minutes prior to the oil change...I guess still not enough to burn it off. But even if I was able to vaporize the fuel just prior to sampling the evidence is still there of the long term presence of fuel in the oil as one sees in the low visc and flashpoint #s.

This was the first winter OCI with the previous 'fair weather' ones showing reasonable re fuel.

But still I do see some good in this most recent run.

• silicon is now finally showing in the single digit range. The OEM filter PF48 seems to be doing its job just fine.
• copper as well is in the single digit range

Of course I would like to see AL trend lower and similarly for Fe. (But the more UOAs I see for this engine the more convinced I am that it will throw off more iron than one might see in other modern engine.)

I replaced the spent PC 0W30 (see Toromont's TBN of 1.5) with true Green German Castrol. Lets see how such an oil does in this GM DI engine.

(VOA for Petro Canada 0W30 can be found here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1578938&page=1)

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I think your break-in would have been less protracted if you used conventional for a couple 3K oci and wailed on that puppy a bit. Looks like the engine now could use some real oil that will hold its viscosity to show lower wear #. Hopefully the "classic" GC will provide that - re-cap and shake those bottles well when they get 3/4 empty whilst refreshing the sump.

 

[JAG]

Wow, how much did the viscosity drop? Green GC will give you a viscosity buffer since it starts at 12 cst.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: JAG
Wow, how much did the viscosity drop? Green GC will give you a viscosity buffer since it starts at 12 cst.


The VOA for the PC oil shows 10.4 Cst at 100.

But I am thinking that I better not need nearly as much buffer for this current OCI as it is occurring over warm weather months.

 

[webfors]

That DI engine beat the snot out of the PC oil. It will be interesting to see how GC does. I would not be happy with a viscosity drop like that. That's almost 30%!

Maybe this engine needs something like XD3 or a solid HDEO conventional like Rotella

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Maybe this engine needs something like XD3 or a solid HDEO conventional like Rotella

I did consider XD but I have GC in my stash and I have always considered GC and XD 0W30 quite comparable. I am trusting that GC shows well for the easier warm weather. For sure it is the severe winter driving routine for this car (short trips not getting up to operating temp. and winter idling) that led to the excessive shearing.

 

[cp3]

Rouge, what was the OLM saying at the change?

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: cp3
Rouge, what was the OLM saying at the change?


4.5 month, 4400 miles OCI brought the OLM to 50%

 

[cp3]

This is where I run into doubts about following the OLM. There seems to be lots of posts where the oil is dumped early and seems to be used up or almost used up.

 

[beast3300]

Oh my gosh. The 3.6 DI d-stroys motor oil. The few I have seen form the local rental car place usually beat. Most of the time the oil in the rentals is low, jet black like a diesel and at least a quart low. I hope GM knew what they were doing with the OLM on those.

 

[prax]

3K OCIs for you.

Try Pennzoil Ultra if you can get it. It supposedly meets dexos 1. GM knows they have issues with their newer engines and a dexos oil might decrease your wear.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: prax
3K OCIs for you.


I am not ready to throw in the towel. I will run this fill of GC for the same distance as with the previous run of the PC 0W30.
(With the warm weather the fuel dilution will not be nearly as prevalent...see last summer's UOAs. And so I am expecting better wear #s with GC)

Originally Posted By: prax

Try Pennzoil Ultra if you can get it.


I don't recall hearing or reading when it will be available north of the border.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: webfors
That DI engine beat the snot out of the PC oil.

I would not be happy with a viscosity drop like that. That's almost 30%!



If this excessive shearing led to the increase in the iron count why isn't this the case for *all* the wear metals? That is every other metal went down either in absolute terms (e.g. copper) or in relative terms i.e. when one factors in the increase in miles in this OCI (e.g. AL, Pb, etc). I would have thought lack of protection would result in lack of protection everywhere.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: cp3
Rouge, what was the OLM saying at the change?


4.5 month, 4400 miles OCI brought the OLM to 50%


That should be very concerning to GM and their clients running these DI engines. There will be considerable wear and reduced engine life for thousands of customers who are following the OLM like they've been told. Keep in mind, most of these customers are running your standard conventional run-of-the-mill oil to make matters even worse.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: webfors
That DI engine beat the snot out of the PC oil.

I would not be happy with a viscosity drop like that. That's almost 30%!



If this excessive shearing led to the increase in the iron count why isn't this the case for *all* the wear metals? That is every other metal went down either in absolute terms (e.g. copper) or in relative terms i.e. when one factors in the increase in miles in this OCI (e.g. AL, Pb, etc). I would have thought lack of protection would result in lack of protection everywhere.

I'm more worried about the condition of the oil, than I am about any of the wear numbers you posted.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: webfors
That DI engine beat the snot out of the PC oil.

I would not be happy with a viscosity drop like that. That's almost 30%!



If this excessive shearing led to the increase in the iron count why isn't this the case for *all* the wear metals? That is every other metal went down either in absolute terms (e.g. copper) or in relative terms i.e. when one factors in the increase in miles in this OCI (e.g. AL, Pb, etc). I would have thought lack of protection would result in lack of protection everywhere.

I'm more worried about the condition of the oil, than I am about any of the wear numbers you posted.


But clearly the reason one worries about the condition of the oil is because spent (low TBN), sheared oil should lead to elevated wear #s. But looking at this particular cold weather UOA, it begs the question why the only metal that was elevated (comparing to the previous 'fair weather' UOAs) was Fe?

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: cp3
Rouge, what was the OLM saying at the change?


4.5 month, 4400 miles OCI brought the OLM to 50%


That should be very concerning to GM and their clients running these DI engines. There will be considerable wear and reduced engine life for thousands of customers who are following the OLM like they've been told. Keep in mind, most of these customers are running your standard conventional run-of-the-mill oil to make matters even worse.


Agreed Webfors.

Of course I am still hopeful that GC/Esso XD might be a better fit in this engine during the cold weather months. But for sure I have learned from this UOA that next winter's OCI will not go past 50% on the OLM at which time I will drain and sample and compare.

 

[addyguy]

Much as I am a 'fan' of PC oils and have gotton great service out of them, I will admit they are not a strong, robust oil. The synthetic and convnetional use the same add-pack, and have almost the same specs, including a 7.7 TBN. The are designed for brutal cold conditions, and not much else.

All that to say that the minute I saw you were running this oil in a GM DI V-6, I knew results wouldn't be great. I'm not all suprised by them, and I wouldn't have run this oil myself in this engine. GM is going to have a LOT of problems with this engine going down the line, with most of them just recommending 6094M conventional oil and OLM intervals of 7-9k.

I think A3 rated oils are a minimum this engine needs....