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#1817829 - 03/15/10 08:05 AM Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil
mpow3r Offline


Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 32
Loc: London, UK
Guys,

i was wondering if 300v was better than say Motul X-max in a high revving road car. e.g i have a euro spec E36 m3 evo and wanto to use a 0w/5w30 oil in it. As long as it meets the ACEA A3 std's i can use a 30 weight.

I have started to keep a spreadhseet of all the top oils and their values, every time I find another good one i add the details to the spreadsheet.

i have noticed that Motul 300V(double ester racing oil) 5W30 is thinner at 100 Deg C than some of the normal Motul (single ester i think) range.

Motul 300V 5W30 - 11 mm≤/s @ 100 deg C
Motul X-lite 0W30 - 11.9 mm≤/s @ 100 deg C
Motul 8100 X-max 5W30 - 12mm≤/s @ 100 deg C !

So does this mean that the other 2 are more stable at 100 deg C than the 300V?

Castrol Edge 0W30 is 12.2 mm≤/s @ 100 deg C, the thickest out of the lot but isn't ester based like these ones, is it?

Motul 300v 5W30 has the best TBN no. (11.3) out of all these, edge 0w30 has the least at 10.3, if that matters??

the 300V has a slightly better HTHS value than the other 2 motuls and also the other 2 are ACEA A3 approved where as I can't find the rating for the 300V 5W30!

So, my question is, would the X-max or x-lite be better for my car or the 300v?

thanks

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#1817880 - 03/15/10 08:50 AM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: mpow3r]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9145
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: mpow3r
I have started to keep a spreadhseet of all the top oils and their values, every time I find another good one i add the details to the spreadsheet.

Quick caveat: An oil's performance depends largely on a lot of factors that are not shown on product data sheets. The numbers let you make certain kinds of guesses, but they are mostly for determining whether the product has roughly the physical characteristics your engine needs.

The 8100 series oils are street oils, and thus are optimized for much longer drain intervals. The 300V oils are race oils and are made primarily to take high stress. This has a significant impact on their formulations, most aspects of which do not show up in the numbers.


Originally Posted By: mpow3r
i have noticed that Motul 300V(double ester racing oil) 5W30 is thinner at 100 Deg C than some of the normal Motul (single ester i think) range.

Motul 300V 5W30 - 11 mm≤/s @ 100 deg C
Motul X-lite 0W30 - 11.9 mm≤/s @ 100 deg C
Motul 8100 X-max 5W30 - 12mm≤/s @ 100 deg C !

So does this mean that the other 2 are more stable at 100 deg C than the 300V?

Not at all. If anything, it might mean that 300V is the toughest oil because it has less viscosity index improver content.

By the way, "double ester" and "ester based" are marketing lines to some extent. There is some truth to them but they should not make or break your decision.


Originally Posted By: mpow3r
Castrol Edge 0W30 is 12.2 mm≤/s @ 100 deg C, the thickest out of the lot but isn't ester based like these ones, is it?

Probably not to the same extent. It probably has some esters, though. Most high performance oils do, as far as I know; maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in.

Keep in mind that Edge 0w-30, like the 8100 series, is street oil. No problem with that, but it is noteworthy if you're considering racing oils.


Originally Posted By: mpow3r
Motul 300v 5W30 has the best TBN no. (11.3) out of all these, edge 0w30 has the least at 10.3, if that matters??[quote]
As I understand -- and again, perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in -- higher ester content means higher acid content, which means a higher TBN is required. I don't think 300V's higher TBN is particularly meaningful on its own.


[quote=mpow3r]the 300V has a slightly better HTHS value than the other 2 motuls and also the other 2 are ACEA A3 approved where as I can't find the rating for the 300V 5W30!

Where did you find the HTHS for 300V 5w-30?

Motul doesn't bother paying to get 300V certified by the ACEA because it's primarily for race use. If the reason you're looking for ACEA A3 approval is to see if the oil is tough enough, don't worry; race teams use 300V straight out of the can, so you're probably safe on that front.


Originally Posted By: mpow3r
So, my question is, would the X-max or x-lite be better for my car or the 300v?

I'm assuming you like to give it the beans whenever you can. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If you're willing to change the oil every 6k-8k miles at most, then go with 300V. Otherwise, choose one of the street oils.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#1817905 - 03/15/10 09:05 AM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: d00df00d]
mpow3r Offline


Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 32
Loc: London, UK
d00df00d,
thanks for your detailed reply. i was hoping you specifically would actually coz i've read a lot of your posts/replies and have also seen you sig with motul and M3 (i know its probably the US version but still).

i got the HTHS value for Motul 300v Power racing 5w30 from their spec sheet off opie oil website link below.
300v 5w30 spec sheet

Yes, you are right, i do like to give the car a bit of stick but it's not for extended periods and not like I abuse it (I love my babay) lol, so extended hot temps wont be a worry!

I read that racing oils don't have that many detergents in them as they are only used for a race or two and then changed, would this be ok for a road car?

I actually change my oils around 4.5-5K at the mo because Mobil 1 0w40 is so cheap here but 6K would be fine.

Would there be a noticeable performance difference in the 300v and the other 2 motuls?

Thanks again

Kash

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#1817914 - 03/15/10 09:09 AM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: mpow3r]
mpow3r Offline


Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 32
Loc: London, UK
also, i've read that x-max combines 300v technology and also 8100 series pao technology into a road oil. Does this mean anything other than marketing blurb??
link below
turner motorsport link

thanks


Edited by mpow3r (03/15/10 09:09 AM)

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#1817936 - 03/15/10 09:38 AM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: mpow3r]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9145
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: mpow3r
i got the HTHS value for Motul 300v Power racing 5w30 from their spec sheet off opie oil website link below.
300v 5w30 spec sheet

Thanks for the link! This is slightly different from the data sheet I have. I wonder if I can get updated ones from Motul...


Originally Posted By: mpow3r
Yes, you are right, i do like to give the car a bit of stick but it's not for extended periods and not like I abuse it (I love my babay) lol, so extended hot temps wont be a worry!

Sounds like you picked the right viscosity grade, then. thumbsup

If I were you, I'd probably lean toward X-Lite. Your usage shouldn't stress it, and the better cold properties might be useful.


Originally Posted By: mpow3r
I read that racing oils don't have that many detergents in them as they are only used for a race or two and then changed, would this be ok for a road car?

300V is a notable exception. Different grades are formulated differently but most of them are packed with detergents. They are not extended-drain oils, but they are perfectly suitable for street use with appropriately short change intervals.


Originally Posted By: mpow3r
Would there be a noticeable performance difference in the 300v and the other 2 motuls?

Maybe, but I doubt it. Theoretically 300V should perform better since it is a more focused product but I don't think the difference would be noticeable. You'd notice a bigger improvement going from an xw-40 to an xw-30 of similar (or better) quality.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#1817949 - 03/15/10 09:48 AM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: d00df00d]
mpow3r Offline


Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 32
Loc: London, UK
0k, thanks.

do you say x-lite over x-max purely because it is slightly thinner from cold?

Also what do you think about the x-max being a combination of the 300v and 8100 series? Wold that make it any more benficial?

thanks

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#1817951 - 03/15/10 09:49 AM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: mpow3r]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9145
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: mpow3r
also, i've read that x-max combines 300v technology and also 8100 series pao technology into a road oil. Does this mean anything other than marketing blurb??
link below
turner motorsport link

I have heard this about X-Lite, not X-Max.

Motul says that X-Lite is a mix of 300V and 8100 technologies -- essentially 300V tweaked for road use. I don't know to what extent that entails PAO per se; they may have used a group III+ base for better solvency, seal compatibility, etc.

X-Max may be similar in that respect, but I'm not sure. I have heard that it recently switched back to a PAO/ester base, similar to what it was originally (at some point it was not ester based).
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#1817962 - 03/15/10 09:56 AM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: mpow3r]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9145
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: mpow3r
do you say x-lite over x-max purely because it is slightly thinner from cold?

That's one factor.

Another is that X-Max's main advantage over X-Lite is its long-drain approvals (e.g. LL-01 vs. X-Lite's LL-98), which doesn't seem to be a selling point for you. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

It's basically about suitability to the purpose: X-Lite is positioned as being somewhere between 300V and X-Max, which seems about right for you as I understand your preferences.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#1817991 - 03/15/10 10:20 AM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: d00df00d]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9145
Loc: PA
I just noticed the following in my previous post, where my response ended up in the quote box with your question. Just wanted to point it out in case it was missed.
Originally Posted By: mpow3r
Motul 300v 5W30 has the best TBN no. (11.3) out of all these, edge 0w30 has the least at 10.3, if that matters??[quote]
As I understand -- and again, perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in -- higher ester content means higher acid content, which means a higher TBN is required. I don't think 300V's higher TBN is particularly meaningful on its own.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#1818000 - 03/15/10 10:29 AM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: d00df00d]
mpow3r Offline


Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 32
Loc: London, UK
Yes, you are right, i prefer to change oil quicker.

ok, so x-lite will be a better choice then to get the best out of my engine as well as keeping it safe at the same time?

I can't believe that x-lite is more expensive than 300v!! But then the price difference between that and x-max must be there for a good reason!

x-lite 0w30 - £46 for 4L

x-max - 5W30 - £35 for 4L

300V - 5W30 - £45 for 4L

Great, I will give this one a go.

btw, how do you find the 300v 5w40? have you tried motul's xW30's in your M3?

thanks

Kash

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#1818002 - 03/15/10 10:30 AM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: d00df00d]
mpow3r Offline


Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 32
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I just noticed the following in my previous post, where my response ended up in the quote box with your question. Just wanted to point it out in case it was missed.
[quote=mpow3r]Motul 300v 5W30 has the best TBN no. (11.3) out of all these, edge 0w30 has the least at 10.3, if that matters??
Quote:

As I understand -- and again, perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in -- higher ester content means higher acid content, which means a higher TBN is required. I don't think 300V's higher TBN is particularly meaningful on its own.


i had missed that. Thanks for pointing it out

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#1818105 - 03/15/10 11:52 AM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: mpow3r]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9145
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: mpow3r
btw, how do you find the 300v 5w40? have you tried motul's xW30's in your M3?

The 300V 5w-40 is great stuff. Subjectively, it seems to be the best of the oils I've tried. I've also used 8100 X-Max 5w-30 (original formula), which is a close second.

One thing I've noticed is that with all the other oils I've tried, my average fuel economy (judging by the OBC) seemed to drop 1-3 MPG over the course of the OCI. I didn't see that with the 300V.

Keep in mind that these are highly un-scientific observations. smile2

On another note, UOA results have also been favorable. You're right that my car is the US version, so it should be easier on its oil. However, I did have a lot of fuel dilution and contaminants, partly due to a poorly functioning PCV system and VANOS unit. Both oils stood up to that like a champ. That's especially remarkable for the 300V IMO, given that it is a 5w-40 and thus should be less shear-stable than the 5w-30.

Here are my oil analysis results for all the Motul oils I've used. In order from top to bottom on the sheet (so reverse chronological order), they are:

300V 5w-40
300V 5w-40
8100 X-Cess 5w-40
8100 X-Max 5w-30 (original formula)




As for X-Lite, I have not used it but my brother is using it right now and loves it. He has a '96 Integra with a JDM Type-R engine swap. Here's a link to his UOA results for what they're worth: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1694196

I seem to remember hearing of someone here with an Audi who has been getting good results under heavy fuel dilution with X-Lite, but I'm not sure of the details...


By the way, for disclosure: I have been using Motul oils as part of a deal where I got it for free, in return for feedback and oil analysis results. Since that deal is no longer in effect, I'm not sure what I'll do; I was going to switch to (and hopefully stay with) X-Lite 0w-30, but it is drastically more expensive here than my other top pick (RLI 0w-30) so I might switch. The only thing stopping me at this point is that X-Lite is officially BMW approved, and is probably one of the best approved oils available. We shall see.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#1818114 - 03/15/10 11:59 AM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: mpow3r]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9692
Loc: South Texas,USA
I`ve been using racing oils for awhile. I`m using Valvoline VR1 right now. Once the heat of the summer kicks in here,I`m gonna use Pennzoil GT. I was also curious about racing oils in a daily driver,so I emailed both Valvoline and Pennzoil and they said their racing oils are perfectly fine to use in a daily driver that sees 3000 mile/3 month oil changes.


Edited by aquariuscsm (03/15/10 12:00 PM)
_________________________
1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Syntec 10W40/Fram Ultra
Amsoil MTG(tranny)
Amsoil 80W90 GL5(rear diff)
Mobil 1 ATF
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#1818506 - 03/15/10 04:14 PM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: aquariuscsm]
mpow3r Offline


Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 32
Loc: London, UK
d00df00d,
thnaks for all the info man, much appreciated.

fuel economy is something that i like to keep an eye because
1. i do a lot of miles as part of my job and
2. super unleaded (99ron) fuel costs us £1.20/litre here (bas**rds)

I think the x-lite should be good on fuel though, right?

Why do you think the 300v 5w40 was better on fuel, logically it should use more fuel as it's thicker than the other 5W30 that you used??

Do you think that the 300v 5w30 would give me better results than the x-lite 0w30? Or maybe they would be so close that it's irrelevant??

I have seen various uoa results on this forum now but I still can't work them out!! lol


thanks

Kash
aquariuscsm, I have been looking at valvoline as well but wasn't sure if they were ester based etc.. Moving away from castrol and M1 I wanted to try an ester based oil and see what all the fuss was about!

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#1818654 - 03/15/10 05:41 PM Re: Motul 300V Racing oil vs Motul normal/road oil [Re: mpow3r]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9145
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: mpow3r
I think the x-lite should be good on fuel though, right?

All of them should be. You picked three great oils. smile2


Originally Posted By: mpow3r
Why do you think the 300v 5w40 was better on fuel, logically it should use more fuel as it's thicker than the other 5W30 that you used??

Peak fuel economy wasn't better. I was just saying it didn't drop off over the course of the OCI, whereas it did with the X-Max (only slightly). I'm pretty sure average mileage with the 300V 5w-40 was about 1 mpg lower than with the X-Max 5w-30.


Originally Posted By: mpow3r
Do you think that the 300v 5w30 would give me better results than the x-lite 0w30? Or maybe they would be so close that it's irrelevant??

Honestly, there's no way to tell other than to try it. All I can do is give you my best guess. However, I do strongly suspect that if there is a difference, it'll be negligible.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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