2 x E-Core (shocker) , 20k+ Fram, P Classic - Pics

[Gary Allan]

Your experience is unique, webfors.

It appears that your combo valve failed to provide adequate bypassing.

..but it's a 3/4-16 thread filter. Dozens of alternatives to choose from.

 

[Boss302fan]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Your experience is unique, webfors.

It appears that your combo valve failed to provide adequate bypassing.

..but it's a 3/4-16 thread filter. Dozens of alternatives to choose from.

I agree. Sorry about the Fram flaming, but I can not help it.

 

[labman]

I say something smells.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: webfors
After looking at the filters again, I'm convinced the ecore design is very flawed.



very flawed is correct!!!!

this is why i hate these filters,,look at the filter bellow in the red circles look how there is no support between the wide ribs in that ecore cage design,a plugged filter media from over use extended OCI can easily fold the pleats flat then force the media through the wide cage area very easily and a high chance of blowing out the media because theres no support.

you would never have this happen on a steel center tube traditional design,yea maybe you'll get pleat flattening but no chance of a blow out,these filters are so inferior.

 

[daman]

Inferior filters

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
It appears that your combo valve failed to provide adequate bypassing.
The combo valve is nitrile and (with age and use) on a non ecore design with adbv separate, if it fails, the worst you got is some start up rattle . However, with the ecore you have the combo adbv/bypass together. So when it (combo valve) becomes less pliable or fails, not only can the adbv fail so can the bypass. Not saying that's what happened here, but agreeing with GA it does seem a logical conclusion. If the bypass was separate as on a standard design, that scenario is not likely.

That said with only the 3200 stated miles that AC/D looks very ragged, and the the combo valve should not have failed at that OCI. But, stuff happens.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: labman
I say something smells.


Of? Elaborate!

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Your experience is unique, webfors.

It appears that your combo valve failed to provide adequate bypassing.

..but it's a 3/4-16 thread filter. Dozens of alternatives to choose from.

I agree there could always be something specific to my parents 2002 saturn SL1. But keep in mind, this is the OEM filter for this car, which is driven by two seniors and rarely sees over 3k rpm. My father is also a devoted block heater fan and plugs his car in religiously through the winter.

Unique or not, the filter design "allows" for this type of failure.

 

[mechanicx]

I agree. I think the OP said it was it was a PF53 so it is one of the few Delcos that have the bypass in the filter. I blame both the combo bypass and the plastic cage design. I would bet you that the plastic cage causes filter media blow out ocassionally even with a working block mounted bypass. Anyway you slice it the filter was to blame.

I don't want to knock e-cores but I think they deserve it. I read that one thread where an ecore blew out and ruined an engine and Champion Labs basically wigglen out compensatiing. That turned me off of e-cores.

Just get a Purolator L10241 and problem solved.

 

[webfors]

What concerns me the most is *BOTH* PF53's that I cut open exhibited the same traits.. flattening of the media pressed against the sharp ecore cage. One blew out, the other didn't. I think in this application, with these particular filters, you have a high probability of this scenario occurring again.

Did I get a batch of faulty filters? Who knows. I do have two left. I'm going to cut one of those open a take a look at the media. If it's in perfect shape, we know the flattening of the media happens during the OCI, and not at the factory, and hence not defective. In which case, you simply can't trust these filters as a result.

Don't get me wrong, all filters exhibit media that flattens out. However, without proper media support, like with the ecores, this traditionally harmless event can become harmful!

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I agree. I think the OP said it was it was a PF53 so it is one of the few Delcos that have the bypass in the filter. I blame both the combo byass and the plastic cage design. Anyway you slice it the filter was to blame.

Just get a Purolator L10241 and problem solved.


Agreed. Any filter with a solid cage with small'ish holes.

I wish I could cut open the 5 used 2.5 inch Tokyo Roki I have. I just know it would be put together the way we all dream a filter should be

I'm not going to use those PF53's that are left. I'll cut them open after dinner and post the pics.

 

[mechanicx]

They cheap out by using the combo bypass and the plastic center cage. Maybe they also cheap out on the filter media?

The Ecore is suppose to withstand 70 psi of pressure differential. In other words even if your filter bypass fails the filter should still not fail.

No way do these filters support 70 psi differential. Unless maybe they are talking about the failure of the center cage and filter media blow outs are acceptable. I can see the media tearing against the center cage at just under 12 psi, or filter bypass setting. Here's the thing though, one person's Ecore center failed and damaged the engine. How did he get more than 70 psi pressure diferential with a factory crate motor oil pump? That's what champion labs claimed.

 

[sunfire]

These E-Core filters are similar to the cartridge filters. So are all cartridge filters flawed too?

 

[mechanicx]

The cartridge filters may have a better media and a different bypass. Both if the media blows out then they are flawed too.

 

[Texan4Life]

I think your on to something webfors.

Imagine your table edge and paper scenario, but with wet hot paper.

unfortunately i think that square of media is in your engine. lets hope the oil pump chopped it up enough to let it pass through.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: sunfire

These E-Core filters are similar to the cartridge filters. So are all cartridge filters flawed too?

Good chance yes, if left in service too long or bypass wasn't functioning correctly.

unfamiliar with cartridge type filters can you get a traditional steel cage in cartridge(i hope so)?

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: sunfire

These E-Core filters are similar to the cartridge filters. So are all cartridge filters flawed too?


The great thing about cartridge filters is you can inspect the filter media *before* you install it, or even before you purchase it. If the media is pleated uniformly there is little chance of this happening. If it's not, and there are large spaces in the pleats it can flatten and press itself up against the cage. The media in the cartridge filter pic you provided shows excellent and even distribution. Nothing like the *new* PF53 I cut open 10 minutes ago:

Look at the large spaces in the pleat distribution. This IMHO is the culprit that allows the inferior design of the ecore to cause problems. Keep the pleats tight and even and I don't think you'll blow any media out.

Now check out the *really* cheap method used to close the media ends:

It's like they run out of media at the end, stretch out the last two/three pleats and glue the ends together. And on this particular filter the glue doesn't even run the full length!!! At the very top it's missing glue and exposes a small bypass hole.

Needless to say, these filters make frams look like a premium filter.

Did I get a bad batch? Maybe, sure, who knows! However, to reason that 3 filters are part of a bad batch but ecores are a 'good' filter with no 'concerns' is just plain silly reasoning IMHO. Do you want me to cut open the forth and final one.. I bet the results are the same!

 

[mechanicx]

You do bring up a good point though. You don't even have to cut open a catridge filter to inspect it after use. Why are we not seeing blown out media on them? My theory is they are using a much better media since they know the customer can see if it is damaged. Catridge filters do strangely cost more. Sneaky sneaky.

 

[webfors]

Possibly. I haven't opened enough new filters to know the difference between good or bad media.

It wouldn't take much to turn this into a premium filter that I could recommend. Add a screen backing to the media and make sure it's distributed evenly. When the media is spaced tightly and evenly together it's very strong and resists pressure well. When you put pressure on the media where there are gaps in the spacing (as shown in the pictures above) that rigidity is almost non-existent! So even spacing is critical with the ecore to avoid blowing media through the center tube.

I pulled the plastic core out and it is amazingly strong. I did notice the edges of the core supporting the media have indeed been 'rounded' or 'smoothed' out while the edges facing the inside of the center tube are *very* sharp. So they realize the potential for the media getting cut by the very fact that they rounded/smoothed the interior edges of the plastic center tube.

 

[labman]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: labman
I say something smells.


Of? Elaborate!


Anybody that said what I think of this whole thread, should be banned.