Mobil1 5w-30 meet dexos1- Combined Dexos Thread

[buster]

Buster, Please excuse me for adding to your post, but I want to put a notice at the start of this combined thread.

We had 4 Dexos threads that devolved into GM/Dexos bashing threads. They have all been combined into this one thread. Continued bashing may result in a suspension of posting privileges without warning.

Bashers, this is an interesting topic, please don't ruin it for others that want to discuss the topic in a reasonable manner.





Quote:
The product range is expected to include 0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30.


Quote:
Dexos-1, for gasoline engines, will be offered in these formulations: 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30 and 5W-30. Dexos-2, for light diesel engines, will be packaged in 5W-30, 0W-40 and 5W-40.

Dexos-1 will supersede the current GM6094M specification for most GM gasoline vehicles. At this time, GM plans to also use Dexos-1 to replace the GM4718M spec for Corvette, Cadillac and engines with turbochargers, which stipulated Class III synthetic blends; Mobil 1 or the equivalent.


I wonder what this means for Mobil 1 & GM?

Quote:
There has been some industry talk that to meet the Dexos specification, oil formulators would have to use high levels of molybdenum disulfide (moly), a high-quality friction modifier. Due to its high cost, the conjecture is that it would dramatically increase production costs.

 

[buster]

Correct link:

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/nov2009/cover.htm

 

[lonestar]

The 2011 models will be out before we know it. If it is the intent of GM to have their specific spec oil on their 2011 line up then somewhere this oil has to very near the producing in bulk point one would think.

The article makes it almost sound like the new GM spec’d oil will be for 2011 and beyond and not backwards compatible. I would find this very interesting and maybe hard to believe.

Also, 20w oils are included in the GM specs. Does one assume that GM is going to start using an Xw20 as factory fills in some engines starting in 2011?

Lastly, Honda now has their unique spec 0W20 oil as goes Toyota. Now GM is going to have unique specs. Will these specs be so unique that companies like Pennzoil (just using that brand as an example) will not be able meet all the different specs in a single product/bottle as is done today?

 

[Gary Allan]

Eh

Just more evolutions to keep the $$ flowing in a given direction. When normal taps run dry you employ more creative ways to wet your beak.

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Eh

Just more evolutions to keep the $$ flowing in a given direction. When normal taps run dry you employ more creative ways to wet your beak.

It certainly could be partly that but there also are goals such as extending oil change intervals to reduce maintenance for GM owners. It's not all about just having a cash cow.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, I'd say that there would be no need to brand such an oil. It could merely be spec'd/cert'd as all previous oils had been.

Was Dex VI really needed or was it a re-ante'ing of the OEM spec for greater revenue/licensing purposes?

This appears to be a manufacturer wide evolution. Toyota and Honda coming out with their own exclusive synths ...etc..etc.

Are we seeing the beginning of the end of the retail OTC oil market? I don't know how many years the transition will take, but I see the movement. Back in the 70's it took like 3-5 years for the majority of the population to adopt an evolution .....like ..say..going from leaded to unleaded fuel.

 

[kr_bitog]

Well, GM can not make money selling car, now they are selling oil.

"Although GM has not officially settled on an amount, they are moving forward with plans to charge a licensing fee and royalty on all Dexos engine oil sold. The original estimate had a licensing fee of $1,000.00 per year for each oil marketer, with an approved Dexos product, and a royalty fee of $0.32 on every gallon sold, worldwide."
http://www.nalube.com/e-newsletter/archive/2009/july.html

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Well, GM can not make money selling car, now they are selling oil.

"Although GM has not officially settled on an amount, they are moving forward with plans to charge a licensing fee and royalty on all Dexos engine oil sold. The original estimate had a licensing fee of $1,000.00 per year for each oil marketer, with an approved Dexos product, and a royalty fee of $0.32 on every gallon sold, worldwide."
http://www.nalube.com/e-newsletter/archive/2009/july.html

Another reason to just say no to GM...

I'm sure they changed all their motors to REQUIRE the Dexos oil. Normal SM oils will cause serious problems with their "special" motors...

How can they go from OLM that run great with ANY oil to this???

Amazing....

 

[sunfire]

I know there are already a few active threads on dexos. But I think this thread looks at dexos in a different light. I did use the google search with a few key words but didn't find any discussions on this topic.

A snip of an article from Lube Report, dated March 31, 2010.
Quote:
Dexos uses performance tests from ILSAC and Europe’s ACEA, plus some proprietary GM tests.

Some formulators who have reviewed the Dexos specification say they can only achieve it through heavy use of API Group III or polyalphaolefin base oils, due to its low Noack volatility limits. GM’s Johnson has said the specification is designed around GM’s performance needs, and not to exclude other base oils.

Another Lube Report, dated July 21, 2010.
Quote:
Dexos is required for all GM Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC vehicles starting with the 2011 model year. Shell’s initial Dexos licensed offerings are Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State Ultimate Durability synthetic engine oils.

The key points from these snippets are dexos will be targeted for GM's 2011 fleet. And dexos will be mainly Group III and PAO... most people will call this composition a full synthetic motor oil. Other facts, PP and QS UD are the only oils I know that are currently licensed dexos oils. Both of these oil are well know to be full synthetics. Other oils in Shell's line like YB, QS AD, and the rest of their conventional/blended oils have not been licensed probably due to not being able to meet dexos' performance specs. We know conventional oils like YB can already meet of SN and GF-5.

IMO dexos is GM's new spec to upgrade their entire fleet to full synthetic motor oils. SN and GF-5 specs aren't stringent enough. So GM had to introduce dexos which exceeds SN and GF-5.

Dexos has taken some flack here. But aren't synthetics what BITOGers have been preaching? Extended drain intervals, FE, wear, emissions, less waste, etc, you know the rest... I think GM is stepping up to the plate and requiring synthetics in their entire new fleet. Hopefully they will recommend OCIs and tune their OLMs to take advantage of dexos. Most of us are already using synthetics to extend OCIs. Now we just have a manufacturer that will back that up.

 

[LordAbbett]

I recall that 3/2010 article as possibly requiring more synthetic for noack. Correct me if i'm wrong but Dexos doesn't do anything for wear does it? This noack upgrade may be a very good thing for DI engines.

 

[chubbs1]

On Lubrizol's website they have the "spider web" graph that shows Dexos compared to SN GF-5 and the previous GF-4. It seems to beat GF-5 on the parts where it is lacking such as wear protection, seems like a good supplement to GF-5... Lubrizol

http://www.gf-5.com

 

[OVERKILL]

I wonder how this is going to bode for the proponents of conventional oil.........

 

[chubbs1]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I wonder how this is going to bode for the proponents of conventional oil.........


Not well

 

[chubbs1]

I also wonder how much $$ SOPUS is going to pass on to us??

 

[OVERKILL]

As I stated in the other thread, a higher bar for an oil to meet can only benefit us as consumers as long as we aren't forced to pay a hefty price for it.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
As I stated in the other thread, a higher bar for an oil to meet can only benefit us as consumers as long as we aren't forced to pay a hefty price for it.
+1

 

[LordAbbett]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
I also wonder how much $$ SOPUS is going to pass on to us??
\
this my main concern here.
I mean it might be a top spec. But a GM licensed spec???
Why not the API or ILSAC?

$$

 

[LordAbbett]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
As I stated in the other thread, a higher bar for an oil to meet can only benefit us as consumers as long as we aren't forced to pay a hefty price for it.
+1

+2

 

[Mr Nice]

Quote:
As I stated in the other thread, a higher bar for an oil to meet can only benefit us as consumers as long as we aren't forced to pay a hefty price for it.


Just head over to Walmart when GF-5 becomes available for every day low price on oil.

 

[d00df00d]

Volkswagen pretty much requires synthetics for most of its cars. Mercedes and BMW definitely require synthetics for all of their cars. Honda and Toyota are trying to find the thinnest oils they can use, which will require synthetics to keep volatility from being sky-high. Looks like GM's catching up.