Honda Break-in Period

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Originally Posted By: Dieselbob
Originally Posted By: mpvue
why do people always second guess the people who DESIGNED THE CAR?


Because I don't think their goals and objectives as car builders are the same as my goals and objectives as a car owner.

They want your car to last long enough that you will consider buying another.
I want my car to last FOREVER!

They want to convey the message that their cars have very low routine maintenance costs.
I care very little about routine maintenence costs, especially since I do it myself. What I want is very low REPAIR costs, and ZERO major component failures. During the early 90's GM perfected the 100,000 mile spark plug, and the 40,000 mile alternator. Then they moved on to Oil Life Monitor when they should have been contentrating on intake gaskets. Very misplaced priorities in my opinion.

If they tell you to dump your fluids early, they are admitting that junk gets in there durinng assembly and they are not as clean as they would like you to think, and that break in wear does occur.
I have built engines for 25 years and I KNOW BETTER.

A respected local mechanic that spent a long time as a dealer service manager developed his own suggested fluid change intervals, including an early dump of engine oil, trans fluid, diff oil and PS fluid. He tracked new car customers that used his intervals and those that used the reccomended factory intervals, and his data showed that major components like transmissions, PS pumps, and ABS controllers were lasting in some cases four times longer than those using the factory intervals. I had a nice talk with him one day and he showed me his data.

I don't think that Honda will blow up either way, but I know what I would do. The company I work for even does early drains on engines and transmissions on heavy duty trucks where we are dumping 40 quarts of oil instaed of 4.


Completely agree with your opinions.

However the service managers data serves to prove nothing. It might also just say that people who use shorter intervals take better care of their equipment and thus it lasts longer as easily as it says shorter than recommended intervals results in longer service life.
 
Meditate on it. There's some Zen thing with Honda's that needs to be experienced and explored.

Burn one and think about it.
 
[/quote] Completely agree with your opinions.

However the service managers data serves to prove nothing. It might also just say that people who use shorter intervals take better care of their equipment and thus it lasts longer as easily as it says shorter than recommended intervals results in longer service life. [/quote]

The data I was shown was all for cars serviced in his dealership, just that some used his intervals instead of the factory ones. As these cars were primarily Oldsmobiles, I don't have any reason to think that the cars that were going back to the dealer for factory recommended service intervals were beat on or under maintained any more than the ones that opted for his plan. I'm sure you could extrapolate some small variations, but I feel comfortable sticking by the data.
 
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Meditate on it. There's some Zen thing with Honda's that needs to be experienced and explored.

Burn one and think about it.

LMAO
 
i once read that on ther assembly line, the motors are run in before being installed. then the oil is dumped in the "factory fill" is installed. so it is already done befor eyou even get the car. now id n't know how true this is and have nothing to back it up so feel free to tear it to shreads. would love to hear from some folks who've worked on assembly lines to see if this is true.
 
On my 09 Accord, I followed the MM on the FF and changed it at 15%, or around 6800 miles.

I think the old school of thought it change it early, and I would probably agree most of the time. However, I will not on a Honda. It's been shown the amount of moly is through the roof on UOA and I'd rather stick with OEM recommendations.

Just my opinion - from a guy who owns one.
 
This is a new world, engine wise. [And a better and better world for oils!]
Factory engines are superb, for the most part, and Honda is not the only one to recommend long first OCIs.

As far as I have determined, Honda oil [especially their break in oil] is moly loaded.

Add it all up and we don't have to change the oil at 500 miles anymore on a new car for good results and safety.
But I still don't think could go over 5000 for that first oil change! I think 3-4,000 would send me to Walmart for a jug!

And part pf the reason for long initial OCIs is marketing, sales, brownie points, and perception. Add this to real $ savings and a 'Greener' world philosophy overall.
 
Thank you, mechtech2, for that last sentence.

There is a naive perception that the owner's manuals are written by the engineers. They are written first by lawyers to address liability issues and to meet government regulation. Second in line is the marketing department. The engineers supply the table of specifications at the end.

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: mpvue
why do people always second guess the people who DESIGNED THE CAR?


Because marketing departments are often staffed by Dilbertian pointy-haired doofusues who, unfortunately, often have a significant influence over the specified maintenance schedule. I wouldn't be remotely surprised to find the 8K suggested OCI is a compromise between the engineers' 'I'd suggest 4k' and the sales dork's 'never change your oil again!'

At the same time, second guessing the 8K suggestion without specific knowledge to guide you seems sorta silly. So long as the filter catches any potentially damaging large chunks, the minor wear caused by small unfiltered particles will not be worth the worry.
 
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Originally Posted By: Geonerd

Because marketing departments are often staffed by Dilbertian pointy-haired doofusues who, unfortunately, often have a significant influence over the specified maintenance schedule. I wouldn't be remotely surprised to find the 8K suggested OCI is a compromise between the engineers' 'I'd suggest 4k' and the sales dork's 'never change your oil again!'


It is not an 8K OCI that is recommended, it is to follow the MM that is engineered, taking in account a lot of parameters.

By questioning the figure thrown by the MM, you definitively questioned the engineering.

My wife OCI is about 5K miles as she is almost doing exclusively city driving.

Someone doing mostly highway driving will get between 10 to 12K miles OCI.
 
i changed out the oem fluid at 4k. Not that it matters but, i get 36mpg on the highway from my tsx when the epa was at 31. Hit 115mph when it only had 300 miles on it and saw mid-range rpms quite a bit between 0-1000 miles

make sure you vary your rpms, and don't baby your car too much.

my friend bought a new civic si and hit 8100 atleast 20 times within the first 50 miles. the car is running great.
 
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I enjoyed reading everyone's opinion and I think the best course of action would be to change it at around 6k. It's the best compromise between the two guys who sit on each of my shoulders and talk to me :)
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Meditate on it. There's some Zen thing with Honda's that needs to be experienced and explored.

Burn one and think about it.


Been there, done that!

"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" starred two bike's, one of which was a '67 305cc Honda CB77 Super Hawk.
First bike I ever owned.
 
The reason we question is Govt Motors, Chrysler and their brakes that might fail Toyota and the mats that might give the gas pedal a nudge and then we have Ford and the suv problem and the gas tank fires not to leave out Honda and the trans problems that have appeared in some models over the years.Honda also suggests you change the filter every other oil change. This is all at 105$ per hour labor charge. We think.
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Unearthed,

Since your Honda is under warranty I'd go by what your instruction book says. I'd just drive it and enjoy having such a nice car.

If you must do an OCI I wouldn't do anything until you talk to your Honda dealership first. If anything goes bad they can use that recent OCI against you.

My 2 cents.

Durango
 
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