Answers to Common Fram Concerns by a Fram Engineer

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During a google search, I found some information posted by an engineer from Fram. Here is what I found:

Quote:
I am the technical training manager for FRAM. I would love to tell you all about the extended guard filter from FRAM with facts and engineering knowledge. We just did some testing that clearly shows we have more dirt holding capacity than Mobil 1 extended life filter. We also have a higher efficiency rating and are the only filter to guarantee 10k oil change intervals when used with synthetic oil. There is already a bunch of mis-information in this string about who makes what. In addition, I will only answer questions based on accepted engineering testing, not 15 yr old internet studies of cut open oil filters. Our filters are only made in Canada (Stratford), and USA (Greenville, OH and Clearfield, UT). The xtended guard filter is a two ply full synthetic media that is wrapped around a stainless steel screen backing. This is held in place by metal end caps. It also has a silicone antidrainback valve to remain pliable with extended drain intervals. I welcome your questions about filtration as well as any questions from this forums members.


Quote:


Concern:

Pass on the Fram and get anything else. Cardboard doesn't have a place in your engine.

Answer:

there is no "cardboard" in any FRAM filter. The end caps in the lower level models are an engineered media, just like the filter media itself.


Quote:


Question: Motorking:
Welcome to CleanMPG! Thanks for joining and offering info. I will dig in my archive drives and try to find pics that I have questions about. So now you offer Extra, Tough, Extended Guard and High Mileage models. Is Extra Guard your bottom end model?

Answer:

Extra Guard- This is our entry level, least expensive filter. It is designed for those using regular or synthetic oil and changing oil every 3-4k miles. It has a 95-96% efficiency rating. This filter is very good, yet takes a beating on the internet for having fiber end caps. The end caps are not part of the filter structure, they are there to seal the ends of the filter media (which is also a fiber on all filters).The guys who comment on the net that this is some kind of weakness really do not understand filter construction at all. We build millions of these filters per year and have zero issues with them.

Tough Guard- The next step up. This filter is similar to the extra guard except is has a synthetic blend media that is 99% efficient. It also is recommended for the 5-7k oil change interval. It has a stainless screen over the bypass valve for added protection and a silicone antidrainback valve for longer life.

High Mileage- This is very cool filter. It is designed for high mile engines. It is similar to extra guard in construction except it has a "timed release" basket containig a oil conditioning chemical. This chemical replenishes the additive package in the oil that a high mile engine can consume pretty quickly. This technology is being developed farther along in the hopes that someday you could change only your filter and not the oil.

HP Racing Filter- Not likely much interest in this among this board but- This is a very high flowing and mechanically robust filter for those running higher than normal oil temps and pressures in racing engines. not really designed for street use.

Extended Guard- The flagship of the FRAM line and our best filter. Two ply full synthetic media wrapped around a stainless steel screen. This filter is totally designed for the 10k oil change. It has great 97% filtering efficiency and excellent dirt trapping ability up to 26 grams on the larger filters! It also has a silicone antidrainback valve for long life. We say right on the box it is recommended for up to 10k change intervals when used with quality synthetic oil.
Thanks for listening and I am always at your service to answer any filtration, spark plug or coolant/cooling system issues you may have.


Quote:

Question: Motorking,

Glad to see your reply as I've been a lifetime fan of your product. For some reason there is alot of negative publicity surrounding your company on the internet. What is your company doing to dispel these myths?

Answer:

Well, we have really just ignored it for a long time. That has had the unfortunate effect of making some believe what they hear is true. So what are they doing about it? They are having myself and the other technical trainers in my group answer filter, spark plug and coolant questions on various internet forums with engineering facts, no marketing [censored], just facts. I hope you buy my companies products but I am only here to educate, not sell.


Sources:

Thread: http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25117

User: http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/member.php?u=11210

Enjoy!
 
Quote:
High Mileage- This is very cool filter. It is designed for high mile engines. It is similar to extra guard in construction except it has a "timed release" basket containig a oil conditioning chemical. This chemical replenishes the additive package in the oil that a high mile engine can consume pretty quickly. This technology is being developed farther along in the hopes that someday you could change only your filter and not the oil.
Quote:


54.gif
dont oils become acidic and shear down?


Ty very much for that post though, too bad the engineer did not come here. haha
 
Quote:
The end caps in the lower level models are an engineered media, just like the filter media itself.



lol.gif
Did this guy work in Washington before Fram....
crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: PT1
Quote:
The end caps in the lower level models are an engineered media, just like the filter media itself.



lol.gif
Did this guy work in Washington before Fram....
crackmeup2.gif



I know, right?

He also completely ignored all the imploded frams and failed "engineered media" caps.
 
Originally Posted By: PT1
Quote:
The end caps in the lower level models are an engineered media, just like the filter media itself.



lol.gif
Did this guy work in Washington before Fram....
crackmeup2.gif



It is actually common for the end cap material to be filter media as well.

Before some individuals on this site upset Filter guy, he explained that on the Champs Ecore filters, the media used for the end caps has a higher efficiency than the filter media itself!

Also, media-based end caps do have their advantages over metal. For one, they use up less room. As a result, this allows for more media to be used in the can.

Quote:
Clyde..ALL E-cores are shorter than the previous metal endcap'd part number.

They took the metal endcaps out of the design for the element. When you do that you can shorten the overall lenght of the filter. And actually they increased dirt holding capacity at the same time.

How much media is "lost" being sunk down into the metal endcaps where the glue is to hold the element together?

That is why E-core style filters are shorter and out perform the "old" part numbers they replace.


Quote:
Metal end caps would make the element longer to have the same sq inches of media to equal the E-core.

Look at it this way...

How much media is lost down in the glue for both ends of the element because you need to sink the media down inside each endcap to have a positive seal.

So the E-core uses more sq inches of media in a slightly smaller can.

With the special material used as endcaps..they also filter the oil as fluid can pass through that material as well. And actually the material used for the endcaps has a higher efficiency than the media itself. Which adds to the total efficiency of the entire element.


Sources:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post355844
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post351367
 
Never heard of thre Mobil 1 Extended Life filter only the Mobil 1 Extended Performance filter. Also with the High Mileage filter someone should have asked him what was in the basket that replinshed the oil and what they make it out of. Also he does not mention the Double Guard filter Fram makes.
 
Goods post Critic. Although I joke about Fram filters, I have used them on and off for many years. I simply do believe they are way overpriced for the quality of construction as compared to their competitors.
 
True. If I could get the extended guard for five bucks a throw shipped to my door via Amazon, I just might. Or the ToughGuard for 2.50. Those are my P1/Purolator Classic prices, and I would need Fram to at least be competitive.
 
Originally Posted By: bepperb
True. If I could get the extended guard for five bucks a throw shipped to my door via Amazon, I just might. Or the ToughGuard for 2.50. Those are my P1/Purolator Classic prices, and I would need Fram to at least be competitive.


I heard Walmart charges $8 for the Extended Guard filters. If those filters really do have more dirt holding capacity than the Mobil 1 EP filters, then that's a steal.
 
So the "high end" filter is 1% more efficient then the cheapest/basic model.....nice.
Does the engineer know what particle size this efficiency rating comes at? The website just shows "marketing [censored]" as he likes to call it....."greater then 20 microns" is a pretty big window.
Quote:
VS LEADING ECONOMY FILTERS' AVERAGE. Honeywell testing of filter efficiency and capactiy of models equivalent to PH8A, 3387A and 6607 under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns.
Honeywell testing of filter efficiency (using FRAM XG3387A and XG8A average) and dirt holding capacity (using XG8A average only) and their leading economy filter equivalents under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns.
 
I think the engineer makes some valid points and I also agree that Frams are overpriced. If Tough Guards sold for $3.50 at WM I'd use them.
 
I never really understood the crazy amount of fram bashing anyways....


Regardless of price, it's still a good filter...
 
Thanks for the post, The Critic! Good to have some plausible sounding stuff on here for once.

I think it's important to note that many of the comments on their products may reflect somewhat recent revisions. I noticed that they are all in the present tense...
 
Originally Posted By: jmsjags
he says the tough guard is 99% efficient, but the top-of-the-line extended guard is only 97%?
54.gif



Maybe they filter down to a smaller size?
21.gif
 
Efficiency % means nothing at all without particle size and the specific test used. One of my beefs about the M1 filters. They do seem to filter very well, but they could just give you the data to make a decision on.
 
Originally Posted By: bepperb
True. If I could get the extended guard for five bucks a throw shipped to my door via Amazon, I just might. Or the ToughGuard for 2.50. Those are my P1/Purolator Classic prices, and I would need Fram to at least be competitive.


Where do you get purloator filters for 2.50 each?
 
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