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#1697252 - 12/06/09 02:38 AM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: mechanicx]
Coolant_Man Offline


Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 176
Loc: IL, USA
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It' s not just about money, but meeting a standard and compatibility and reputation. Peak claims compatibility. G-05 doesn't, and do you think G-05 production isn't about money too?

Sure it is. The point is Peak GL is an unique product that is patented by Peak. However, it CANNOT be compatible if it doesn't contain phosphates from Asian vehicles and it cannot be compatible with other vehicles that require silicates.

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't possess this knowledge? If you say so. What was Dexcool replacing? Green. If you are trying to say G-05 was back-speced for Green by a manufacture, that is not the real reason why it was selected in the first place. You acknowleded that G-05 was a European long-life coolant for some time, so it was chosen by Ford and Chrysler to replace Green, just as Dexcool was first chosen by GM. You are kind of going in circles here I think, and I'm not really getting your point. Anyway, Your reply here really had no relation to the reason I disagree with you in the other thread.

Where do I begin? Yes Deathcool replaced the green stuff GM used. It was a totally reformulated product that GM hoped would last longer than the green stuff. And since they have a lot of pensions to pay, it is helpful having a name they can license for other companies to make Deathcool. Of course history has shown us a lot of people have had problems with Deathcool and have actually replaced it with the green stuff. A class-action lawsuit against a coolant technology says it all. I am pretty sure green, Asian, and G-05 have never been sued.

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
First off I think I think Zerex's Application Chart is a bunch of baloney. I think they recommend Dexcool for just about everything on one of their charts I've seen. To use your statement earlier, it's all about $$$. Of course Dexcool is not going to meet GM spec for Green. Now, I think I see what you are meaning by "G-05 is a direct replacement for Green". G-05 is very similar to Green and because of the OAT it has a longer service life than Green. But keep in mind we are not talking about filling classic cars that maybe ahve iron blocks, brass radiators etc, that originally were factory filled with Green. Those cars should get Green anyway, and perhaps you're right G-05 is the next most compatible choice. We were discussing cars that did not come with green originally. Also what you are saying only supports my staements earlier that Green worked fine in Asian cars.

Baloney? So a company that says there should be multiple coolants available is wrong? That's nuts. At least Zerex and Havoline offer G-05, Deathcool, and green. Zerex takes it a step further with their Asian and Extended Life formulations. In a nutshell, Zerex has 5 possibilities to choose from and Havoline has 3.

On the rest of your quote, very good! But somehow you have this idea that I am trying to get to OP to switch the G-05 when I am not. I am STRONGLY advising the OP to use Asian HOAT coolant for his Asian vehicle. And you are wrong about the classics. G-05 is superb in them...

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/02q2/dr._turcotte_writes_a_few_coolant_prescriptions.-column

"Turcotte says G-05 is less radical than Extended Life, and it's backward and forward compatible, which means that it can be mixed with green conventional antifreeze or the latest inorganic types. It's particularly well-suited to keeper cars, he thinks, because of the way it combats the sort of corrosion that comes with being a garage potato."

Turcotte is smarter than probably anyone on this board in regards to coolant.

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
That is a bold statement that isn't support with real facts. Dexcool might very well protect against corrosion as well or better than those two with out these inorganic inhibitors. And also Peak Global might too. Silicates and phosphates are not th same thing anyway. Dexcool, protects very well against corrosion of aluminum if no air is present in the cooling system. How many times do I have to say that?

I am wondering if you have Deathcool stock or something. I stand by that bold statement. Prove me wrong if you can which you cannot. So you want the OP to use Deathcool? Are you crazy? How many times do I have to tell YOU that if OEM requires a phosphate HOAT or a silicate HOAT that it is best to stick to that formulation? Deathcool doesn't meet this requirement nor do any of the Deathclones nor does Peak GL.

TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER:
It's really your decision on what you want to use. You should really stick with the OEM recommended fluid which is Asian phosphate HOAT coolant.

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#1697268 - 12/06/09 04:04 AM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: Coolant_Man]
mechanicx Offline


Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 8576
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It' s not just about money, but meeting a standard and compatibility and reputation. Peak claims compatibility. G-05 doesn't, and do you think G-05 production isn't about money too?

Sure it is. The point is Peak GL is an unique product that is patented by Peak. However, it CANNOT be compatible if it doesn't contain phosphates from Asian vehicles and it cannot be compatible with other vehicles that require silicates.


PGL, G-05 or what have CAN be compatible in any car it's just not the same as the manufacture recommended/required formula. Anyone knows that. Just because a manufacture recommends something doesn't mean nothing else can work or can't be better. How many times have you said "deathcool" is crummy, yet it is factory recommended. I think you are too hung up on silicants and phosphates. But of course using the recommended fluid is the safest bet.


Quote:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't possess this knowledge? If you say so. What was Dexcool replacing? Green. If you are trying to say G-05 was back-speced for Green by a manufacture, that is not the real reason why it was selected in the first place. You acknowleded that G-05 was a European long-life coolant for some time, so it was chosen by Ford and Chrysler to replace Green, just as Dexcool was first chosen by GM. You are kind of going in circles here I think, and I'm not really getting your point. Anyway, Your reply here really had no relation to the reason I disagree with you in the other thread.

Where do I begin? Yes Deathcool replaced the green stuff GM used. It was a totally reformulated product that GM hoped would last longer than the green stuff. And since they have a lot of pensions to pay, it is helpful having a name they can license for other companies to make Deathcool. Of course history has shown us a lot of people have had problems with Deathcool and have actually replaced it with the green stuff. A class-action lawsuit against a coolant technology says it all. I am pretty sure green, Asian, and G-05 have never been sued.


Well I think you are a little too suspicious of GM licensing. They are not going to get rich off a license. How is that any worse than some manufactures not licensing their required fluid and requiring you to get through them? Anyway,people have put Green with silicant in dexcool cars, just like people have used Green in European cars in the past. So as it goes, sometimes you go against the factory recommendation and the sky doesn't fall. you could add PGL to list of not being sued nor being known to cause problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
First off I think I think Zerex's Application Chart is a bunch of baloney. I think they recommend Dexcool for just about everything on one of their charts I've seen. To use your statement earlier, it's all about $$$. Of course Dexcool is not going to meet GM spec for Green. Now, I think I see what you are meaning by "G-05 is a direct replacement for Green". G-05 is very similar to Green and because of the OAT it has a longer service life than Green. But keep in mind we are not talking about filling classic cars that maybe ahve iron blocks, brass radiators etc, that originally were factory filled with Green. Those cars should get Green anyway, and perhaps you're right G-05 is the next most compatible choice. We were discussing cars that did not come with green originally. Also what you are saying only supports my staements earlier that Green worked fine in Asian cars.


Baloney? So a company that says there should be multiple coolants available is wrong? That's nuts. At least Zerex and Havoline offer G-05, Deathcool, and green. Zerex takes it a step further with their Asian and Extended Life formulations. In a nutshell, Zerex has 5 possibilities to choose from and Havoline has 3.


I only said that one of Zerex's charts was baloney for recommending a dexclone for just about everything, but now that I think about it it might have been Prestone and if so I take that back. I don't think oiffering multiple coolants is wrong. What I do think is wrong is how manufactures can't get together and agree on a coolant.


Quote:
On the rest of your quote, very good! But somehow you have this idea that I am trying to get to OP to switch the G-05 when I am not. I am STRONGLY advising the OP to use Asian HOAT coolant for his Asian vehicle. And you are wrong about the classics. G-05 is superb in them...


I believe I said G-05 would be better in a classic, so this isn't the first time you've put words in my mouth so to speak. I don't disagree with anyone recommending the OEM coolant, but you still seem to have a strong favoritism of G-05 and dismissed PGL falsely earlier calling it a dexclone etc, but whatever. My point was we were never talking about classic that originally used Green when discussing coolant choice.


Quote:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/02q2/dr._turcotte_writes_a_few_coolant_prescriptions.-column

"Turcotte says G-05 is less radical than Extended Life, and it's backward and forward compatible, which means that it can be mixed with green conventional antifreeze or the latest inorganic types. It's particularly well-suited to keeper cars, he thinks, because of the way it combats the sort of corrosion that comes with being a garage potato."

Turcotte is smarter than probably anyone on this board in regards to coolant.


Well thanks for the link, it's good to hear that G-05 is compatible with classics and green but no mention of other organic types according to a Zerex guy. That really wasn't what's at debate here though.



Quote:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
That is a bold statement that isn't support with real facts. Dexcool might very well protect against corrosion as well or better than those two with out these inorganic inhibitors. And also Peak Global might too. Silicates and phosphates are not th same thing anyway. Dexcool, protects very well against corrosion of aluminum if no air is present in the cooling system. How many times do I have to say that?

I am wondering if you have Deathcool stock or something. I stand by that bold statement. Prove me wrong if you can which you cannot. So you want the OP to use Deathcool? Are you crazy? How many times do I have to tell YOU that if OEM requires a phosphate HOAT or a silicate HOAT that it is best to stick to that formulation? Deathcool doesn't meet this requirement nor do any of the Deathclones nor does Peak GL.

TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER:
It's really your decision on what you want to use. You should really stick with the OEM recommended fluid which is Asian phosphate HOAT coolant.


I never recommend dexcool or a dexclone in anything but a GM vehicle. I don't have any real disagreement with someone suggesting to stick with the OEM coolant. But you seem to be implying that since G-05 is a H-OAT with silicates that makes it in fact better than any OAT period, or perhaps it could be more suitably used in an Asian car. You may only be recommending Asian formula for them. But you seem to dismiss PGL because it doesn't have silicants or phosphates, and while that does preclude it from being the recommended formula for an H-OAT application, that doesn't mean it can't or won't work as good or better in them.

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#1697288 - 12/06/09 05:40 AM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: mechanicx]
Coolant_Man Offline


Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 176
Loc: IL, USA
Each of your replies above seem to contradict each other.

I also find it funny you have not linked to any evidence backing up our assertions whereas I have both here and in other threads we have participated in.

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#1697339 - 12/06/09 07:23 AM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: Coolant_Man]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 3890
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Actually Zerex has since modified their chart, removing the newer Dexcool for the Asian vehicles & replacing it with Asian Vehicle. IMHO, the reason the Japanese & Koreans recommend phosphate inhibitors is to protect against water pump seal failure due to silicate drop-out, GO-5 has actually been around longer than Dexcool (Mercedes), and is an EXCELLENT choice for older vehicles that came with green originally. Dexcool is great until you have problems-then it eats engines, case closed, sorry, GM stockholders! I'll add that Ford is now moving in the Asian direction as well-beginning to use Mazda FL-22 coolant in the Mazda-designed engines. A TEN YEAR lifespan for the factory fill of Toyota SLLC can't be a BAD sign!


Edited by bullwinkle (12/06/09 07:29 AM)
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#1697347 - 12/06/09 07:31 AM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: mechanicx]
sayjac Offline


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 7896
Loc: The Old North State
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I guess the debate centers around the question, do you have to have phosphates for an Asian application. And I would say no.
And, I would agree with you. Zerex marketing aside, the only Asian make that I have seen specifically recommend phosphate in their coolant is Toyota.

I also find it now interesting, the new spin being put forth that anything other than OEM or a Zerex product(other than Zerex Dex) now being termed 'deathcool'. lol Peak Global Lifetime contains no 2eha, and therefore is not dexcool or a dexclone. Like Bill in Utah, I'd have no reservations/issues using it in any Asian vehicle including Toyota, whose branded coolant is too expensive, IMO.

Curiously though, Zerex still recommends Dexcool for many vehicles on the their coolant application chart. Also very curious is the fact, that before the introduction of their Asian coolant, Zerex recommended Dexcool for all Asian models. The pdf here still shows it.

I personally have now run Peak LL and Prestone AM in 2 different Asian makes, Nissan and Toyota, for ~5years with regular maintenance(2-3yrs/30-40k) with zero issues, both still have all original cooling system equipment. I've not been scared off by the dexcool/2eha monster (ie. some intake gaskets on some GM products). There's many cars, including GM, using dex that have had zero issues, with regular cooling system maintenance. That said, I can understand those that have their reservations about the dexclone universals, in such a case, Peak GL is a fine choice.

Lastly, before I would choose Zerex Asian Premix 50/50 for a simple radiator drain and refill of existing coolant chemistry, I would try to match the coolant chemistry already in the system. Failing that, I would do a complete distilled flush series choosing a new full strength coolant of choice, like Peak GL. Assuming I could find it, I would not mix Zerex Asian premix with existing chemistry. Until they make it in full strength, Zerex Asian won't be a considered choice for me.

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#1697452 - 12/06/09 09:39 AM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: wiswind]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 13180
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: wiswind
Well....I might be getting a '03 Sienna.....and, while I have not made up my mind about what coolant to use......might go with G-05 instead......
But....I am thinking that the premix might work for my plan of drain & fill.
I DO agree that 100% coolant.....and add my own distilled water would likely be cheaper....
But to the point of keeping the cooling system with fresh, clean coolant....doing a couple of drain and flushes....say...every 2 years should keep the system clean....and not needing any system flushing.


Asian vehicles for the most part specify NO SILICATES. G-05 is great antifreeze but it is low silicates rather than NO SILICATES as required.
_________________________
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0 - PP & M1
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins - Rotella T6 & M1
Amsoil ATF in both vehicles & Magnefine filter.

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#1697652 - 12/06/09 12:33 PM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: Donald]
doitmyself Offline


Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4659
Loc: MI
Coolant_man,
Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
And you are wrong about the classics. G-05 is superb in them...

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/02q2/dr._turcotte_writes_a_few_coolant_prescriptions.-column

"Turcotte says G-05 is less radical than Extended Life, and it's backward and forward compatible, which means that it can be mixed with green conventional antifreeze or the latest inorganic types. It's particularly well-suited to keeper cars, he thinks, because of the way it combats the sort of corrosion that comes with being a garage potato."

Turcotte is smarter than probably anyone on this board in regards to coolant.


Since we are picking apart each others arguments here (debating), I wish to add my comments about the use of dated links from so called "experts". Most of these "experts" are just stating their OPINION, which may, or may not be any better than the rest....watch: WHICH OPINION IS TO BELIEVED MORE, AND WHY?

Dr. Turcott (2002)
- suggested that the Zerex Extended Life would become a proven product for vintage vehicle....his OPINION didn't materialize.

- Turcott recommends G05 for vintage cars (vs Weissler below)

_ Turcott said you CAN intermix green and G-05, but is that best practice?

Ford says you CAN mix it also, but they RECOMMEND not doing it in this Ford FAQ:
http://www.paulmachenry.com/documents/CoolantFAQs.pdf
" What is the interchangeability of Motorcraft Premium Engine Coolant(Green) and Motorcraft Premium Gold Engine Coolant? Can Motorcraft Premium Engine Coolant be used to top off a vehicle equipped with Motorcraft Premium Gold Engine Coolant?
Ford does not recommend mixing coolants."

- Turcott states about G05 "I've got a 20-year history that says this really works." Then states at the end "I have no personal experience with any of these products."

Weissler:
Now we go to Weissler's link that you posted in another thread, regarding best coolant for vintage cars:"We have in previous articles pointed out that today's coolant inhibitor packages contain a small amount of copper-brass protection, but may provide little protection if a radiator is made with high-lead solder. Results of industry standard tests of the new Toyota extended-life coolant now show a substantial weight loss (corrosion), both in a 50-50 mix aud in a 33% coolant mixture (solder corrosion is much greater in this more diluted solution). If you have to change a radiator or heater core, use aluminum. Or, if it's an older car and the owner wants the lowest-cost radiator, you might procure a soldered-together copper-brass unit. Conventional American coolant should provide better protection against solder corrosion, which can result in radiator tube restrictions and leaks."

My point is, which of the linked "experts" are we to believe, Turcott, Weisler, or Ford? I tend to believe the manufacturer first, and use the others for learning purposes only. THEY POST OPINIONS, NOT THE GOSPEL


Edited by doitmyself (12/06/09 12:47 PM)

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#1697836 - 12/06/09 03:40 PM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: sayjac]
mechanicx Offline


Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 8576
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I guess the debate centers around the question, do you have to have phosphates for an Asian application. And I would say no.
And, I would agree with you. Zerex marketing aside, the only Asian make that I have seen specifically recommend phosphate in their coolant is Toyota.

I also find it now interesting, the new spin being put forth that anything other than OEM or a Zerex product(other than Zerex Dex) now being termed 'deathcool'. lol Peak Global Lifetime contains no 2eha, and therefore is not dexcool or a dexclone. Like Bill in Utah, I'd have no reservations/issues using it in any Asian vehicle including Toyota, whose branded coolant is too expensive, IMO.

Curiously though, Zerex still recommends Dexcool for many vehicles on the their coolant application chart. Also very curious is the fact, that before the introduction of their Asian coolant, Zerex recommended Dexcool for all Asian models. The pdf here still shows it.

I personally have now run Peak LL and Prestone AM in 2 different Asian makes, Nissan and Toyota, for ~5years with regular maintenance(2-3yrs/30-40k) with zero issues, both still have all original cooling system equipment. I've not been scared off by the dexcool/2eha monster (ie. some intake gaskets on some GM products). There's many cars, including GM, using dex that have had zero issues, with regular cooling system maintenance. That said, I can understand those that have their reservations about the dexclone universals, in such a case, Peak GL is a fine choice.

Lastly, before I would choose Zerex Asian Premix 50/50 for a simple radiator drain and refill of existing coolant chemistry, I would try to match the coolant chemistry already in the system. Failing that, I would do a complete distilled flush series choosing a new full strength coolant of choice, like Peak GL. Assuming I could find it, I would not mix Zerex Asian premix with existing chemistry. Until they make it in full strength, Zerex Asian won't be a considered choice for me.


I can only agree with you and your experiences. If Dexcool is workable in Asian vehicles, I don't see any reason why PGL wouldn't be as or more workable. Zerex has been all over the map on their recommendations just as I recalled. It still looks like G-05 may lack compatibility as I suspected since Dexcool has been recommend more in Asian cars than G-05 has. All reasons why I've been suggesting a complete flush especially before switching to G-05. Then when Zerex comes out with an Asian Formula they change their recommendations lol.

Well Peak comes out with an AF that claims longer life and more capability than all of the others, and some people want to throw it under the bus just because it's not an H-OAT. They don't want to consider that PGL's OAT might be better than the rest and it might be an as good or better product.

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#1697842 - 12/06/09 03:48 PM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: doitmyself]
mechanicx Offline


Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 8576
Loc: Ohio
Good points. "Experts" and even manufacturers don't agree and aren't really giving us any definitive data. The article was dated and Dr. Turcott was Zerek's guy just talking offhand and not giving out any real propietary or test data. Basically, all the article was about was replacing Green in classics with whatever Zerek would recommend. That's not really what the discussion here is about, ie, modern cars that used some type of H-OAT or OAT.

Some may take the simpler route and just go with whatever the OEM recommends. But what if you don't want to go with the OEM, say in a GM car with Dexcool? I'm of the view of favoring PGL over G-05.

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#1698002 - 12/06/09 06:12 PM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: mechanicx]
Dan55 Offline


Registered: 06/07/08
Posts: 699
Loc: jersey
I believe they are all good coolants and the most important thing is proper vehicle maintenance period. G-05 has been used in asian vehicles as well as Dexcool without any disastrous affects. My biggest problem is having three different coolant types Hoats Poats and PGL. PGL is getting hard to find,Not crazy about a Hoat in my Asian vehicles, Poats not available as concentrates, but when they are that is what I will probably use for all three.
_________________________
2010 TL 07 Fit Sport 05 Mazda 3S

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#1698005 - 12/06/09 06:15 PM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: mechanicx]
ponderosaTX Offline


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Texas
What antifreeze patents does Old World Industries (the company that produces and markets Peak antifreeze products) hold? I just did a patent search and cannot find a single patent with Old World Industries as assignee.

In contrast, CCI, the inventor of Japanese first and second generation P-OAT technology, holds dozens of antifreeze patents. BASF, Prestone, and Texaco (now Chevron) also hold significant antifreeze patents.

Old World Industries is effective at marketing antifreeze but I have not been able to find any technical substance behind the company. Do they have a research laboratory? I can't find any technical publications written by Old World Industries scientists and engineers. What am I missing?

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#1698041 - 12/06/09 06:41 PM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: Dan55]
mechanicx Offline


Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 8576
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Dan55
PGL is getting hard to find,Not crazy about a Hoat in my Asian vehicles, Poats not available as concentrates, but when they are that is what I will probably use for all three.


I agree with your assessments. You know, even places that carry it don't have much stock of PGL. That may be a sign that the aftermarket is really embracing PGL. We will see how it stands up to the test of time. You know what the ironic thing about Asian P-OAT is? I think if it didn't contain phosphates that don't work well if hard water is used, they'd probably be a lot more willing to offer it in full strength. I'm not saying they are justified or right though because Green has phosphates and is available in FS. Since it is not offered in full-strength and some cars are basically impossible to drain the block after a flush, what are you left with but G-05 or PGL (barring Dexcool of course)?

Coolant_Man, let me see if I have your advice straight. You recommend OEM coolant except if it's Dexcool. You don't recommend Dexcool or Peak GL either in anything because neither is a hybrid with silicant or phosphate (I think you are oversimplfying things and assuming but I've already went over that). So what if you have a GM vehicle? You've also said that traditional Green is damaging to new cooling systems. So what is left but Asian formula and G-05. GM block drains are either impossible or too much trouble getting to, and since Asian is a pre-mix it is ruled out. So that really only leaves G-05 for GM.

Personally, I'm not too crazy about silicates. And the easiest and most effective way to flush out many cars' cooling system is with a water hose connected to tap water and to a T-flush. Even though hard water is not an issue around here, I'd rather not use it with a phosphated anti-freeze even if the Asian was full-strength. Plus the potential for one coolant and not need 2 different ones or more and the potential to mix PGL with others in a pinch, are some of the reasons why I'm leaning towards Peak GL.
This is some of the reasons why I'm leaning towards PGL over G-05,

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#1698048 - 12/06/09 06:48 PM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: ponderosaTX]
mechanicx Offline


Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 8576
Loc: Ohio
I really don't know. Maybe Old World Industries is owned by another parent company? With a name like "Old World", it makes you think it might be European. Maybe Old World Industries did not feel it was necessary to patent their inhibitor but only to not divulge what it is? I'd assume Old world has some patents somewhere. I never really tried to search for them I don't really know what can be concluded from your questions if anything. No other brand seems to have their OAT and non-Dexcool formula.

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#1698062 - 12/06/09 06:59 PM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: Dan55]
sayjac Offline


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 7896
Loc: The Old North State
Originally Posted By: Dan55
PGL is getting hard to find.
True that, the full strength was not available at Walgreens, and only a small amount of premix. A recent email from a fellow Bitoger regarding Peak Professional Lifetime available at Pep Boys, was answered saying that it is the same as PGL. It sounds like the similarity of Peak Extended Life available at Wally and Peak Long Life.

Quote:
I believe they are all good coolants and the most important thing is proper vehicle maintenance period.
Agree 100%. If you maintain the cooling system on a reasonable interval, then your cooling system will generally serve you well.

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#1698124 - 12/06/09 07:43 PM Re: Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze [Re: mechanicx]
Coolant_Man Offline


Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 176
Loc: IL, USA
Oh this is going to be fun...

I think the best way to approach all of this is to link directly to a few Asian OEMs and their recommendations.

Now remember as you read these that the Asians want phosphates and not silicates whereas the rest of the world wants silicates so here we go...

Toyota
"Toyota recommends Genuine Toyota Long Life Antifreeze Coolant (factory red fluid) as the first choice when maintaining your vehicle. Toyota coolant was developed to meet the specific requirements of our engines and provides maximum protection without the use of harmful silicates. Silicates, a main ingredient in the vast majority of antifreeze coolants, can actually damage the water pump seal, causing leakage. Our coolant is a high-performance, non-silicate coolant that provides better protection for metals without deterioration of the water pump seal."

In other words, phosphates are used and Toyota water pumps are not compatible with silicates.

Mazda
"In extreme climate, at extreme temperatures, Genuine Mazda Super Coolant - specially formulated for Mazda engines - provides year-round protection. The Genuine Mazda Long Life Coolant (FL22) is a superior, high-quality coolant. It reduces the operating temperature of the engine and has anti-freeze protection to -44C."

FL22 also contains phosphates.

Nissan
Page 8-9 "When adding or replacing coolant, be sure to use only a Genuine NISSAN Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant (green) or equivalent with the proper mixture ratio of 50% antifreeze and 50% demineralized or distilled water. The use of other types of coolant solutions or coolant colors, such as orange, may damage the engine cooling system."

The interesting thing about this is the warning to not use, "other types of coolant solutions or coolant colors, such as orange, may damage the engine cooling system." I would bet ORANGE means Deathcool. So we can also safely assume this covers Deathclones.

Now all of these Asian coolants are HOAT coolants. Instead of using a low dose of silicates, they use a low dose of phosphates.

Now the primary coolant manufacture for Asian coolants is CCI. It's US subsidiary is called Intac. Apparently, there is no website for Intac. This was the best I could find...

http://www.jei.org/Restricted/BR98/347x/347_JinUS_Chem.html

Now I am going to return to the point I have been trying to make not only in this thread but in others...

STICK WITH OEM!!!

Would it be nice to have ONE universal coolant? Sure! But the way things are today, that is not going to happen.

And I keep seeing this argument being brought up about Asian HOAT being pre-mixed. So what? They want you to flush with pre-mixed coolant only. Why? Because they know many owners of their vehicles will not use distilled water. Using the RIGHT coolant and the WRONG water can be disastrous to a cooling system. Use distilled water. I suppose one could flush out an Asian cooling system quite a few times with distilled water and then drain the entire cooling system and then flush a couple more times with pre-mixed coolant only. It would be nice though to have a concentrate to jack up the coolant ratio to 55-60%. I think it is the Nissan pre-mixed coolant that comes in 55% coolant to 45% distilled water so at least there is one out there going higher than 50/50.

Now mechanicx and sayjec believe you don't need a HOAT coolant using phosphates even though they are called for SPECIFICALLY by Asian OEMs. By their logic, you can use Deathcool in a Ford or a Chrysler though we know both of those companies investigated going to Deathcool and discovered it was bad so they therefore went to G-05. Those recommendations and warnings I linked to above are there for a reason.

In regards to Zerex recommending Deathcool for Asian vehicles prior to the introduction of Zerex Asian, it was not only them doing this. Havoline did the same thing and Super Tech, Prestone, and Peak are obviously still doing the same thing with their "universal" coolants. At least Zerex now as a formulation specifically for Asian vehicles. I think the fact Deathcool was recommended as an equivalent for Asian coolant was flawed.

Back to Peak GL. Peak says it works in everything. I don't buy this for one second. Peak GL DOES NOT CONTAIN silicates and it DOES NOT CONTAIN phosphates. So then someone please explain to me how it can magically work in Ford and Chrysler vehicles wanting silicate HOAT G-05 and how it can work in Asian vehicles wanting phosphate HOAT Asian coolant?

The fact remains that Peak GL is an OAT coolant. Deathcool and Deathclones are also OAT all of which contain about 90-95% Ethylene Glycol and about 5% Diethylene Glycol. Deathcool and Deathclones use 2-EHA and sebacate (both are plasticizers and organic). Peak GL uses something else. The Peak GL MSDS says this proprietary concoction is made of hydrated inorganic acid and organic acid salts. It is rare for an MSDS to list everything on it which I have never liked.

Even mechanicx has agreed it is best to stick with OEM but yet he still recommends a coolant that obviously cannot be OEM. That makes no sense to me.

I really don't know what more can be said on this subject. I stand be my signature 100% which currently says...

"There is no such thing as an All Makes All Models/Universal coolant. Stick with OEM unless it is Deathcool in which case switch to G-05/Zerex Green."

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