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#1687066 - 11/27/09 11:27 PM Best Car and light truck batteries
crazyoildude Offline


Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 5269
Loc: new jersey
What car Batteries are the best for the money or at least really good i used to like the die hards but the last two i had were not good at all i heard i think auto zone had a good battery does anyone know
99 toyota corolla

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#1687077 - 11/27/09 11:35 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: crazyoildude]
HTSS_TR Offline


Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 12901
Loc: Irvine, CA
Costco, Sam Clubs and Walmart all have good batteries made by Johnson Controls and the price is about $50-60 more or less . Auto Zone's batteries are made by Johnson Controls too but the price is a little more than the 3 above.
_________________________
'94 LS400
'00 E430
'04 S2000
"Consumerism has accustomed us to waste. But throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pop Francis

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#1687083 - 11/27/09 11:43 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: HTSS_TR]
LT4 Vette Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 12244
Loc: USA
I installed a Duralast Gold in a family member's car and its still running great 6 years later.

I heard Walmart gives you no problems if you get a bum JC battery and have to return it.


Edited by LT4 Vette (11/27/09 11:44 PM)

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#1687084 - 11/27/09 11:44 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: LT4 Vette]
deven Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 2132
Loc: Massachusetts
I usually get Optima batteries.
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ROYAL PURPLE GUY

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#1687085 - 11/27/09 11:45 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: HTSS_TR]
DeeAgeaux Offline


Registered: 05/29/09
Posts: 325
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Costco, Sam Clubs and Walmart all have good batteries made by Johnson Controls and the price is about $50-60 more or less . Auto Zone's batteries are made by Johnson Controls too but the price is a little more than the 3 above.


I think Sams,Costco and Walmart all have good batteries and are the best bang for the buck.

Napa's batteries are little better according to the last Consumer Reports test I saw but also comes at a price premium. Alot like most products at Napa.
_________________________
03 Honda Accord I-4 5AT
96k Miles
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#1687088 - 11/27/09 11:46 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: deven]
DeeAgeaux Offline


Registered: 05/29/09
Posts: 325
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: deven
I usually get Optima batteries.


And this would be the worst bang for the buck. hornets crackmeup
_________________________
03 Honda Accord I-4 5AT
96k Miles
PP 5w-20 10k OCI

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#1687105 - 11/28/09 12:05 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: DeeAgeaux]
JimPghPA Offline


Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 2804
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
I only expect to get 4 and 3/4 years out of any battery even if they say 6 year life. I replace them at 4 and 3/4 and never have a car get stranded due to the battery.

A good general rule is to always get the largest cold cranking amps you can get in the largest plain jane nothing fancy battery.
And expect the battery to fail any time after 4 and 3/4 years regardless if the rating is for 5 or 6 years.

JimPghPa
_________________________
Boy will I be happy when ALL vehicles on public roads are autonomous.


JimPghPa


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#1687107 - 11/28/09 12:07 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: DeeAgeaux]
spursfan600 Offline


Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Chicago
I bought a battery from Autozone (Valuecraft I think?) last year, it seems pretty good so far. Im not sure who makes it though
_________________________
05 Ford Mustang GT: 5w20 Mobil 1
99 Dodge Stratus: 5w20 Pennzoil YB

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#1687148 - 11/28/09 02:13 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: spursfan600]
Black_Thunder Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 789
Loc: Wisconsin
Motorcraft, autocraft, interstate,.


all good stuff.


my dad's 98 ford still has the original battery wink
_________________________
I'd buy Callahan autoparts if I could.

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#1687261 - 11/28/09 08:28 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Black_Thunder]
JustinH Offline


Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 3174
Loc: Texas
Any new battery on the market is going to be better than an old one :)
_________________________
'14 Toyota Rav4
'08 Toyota Matrix

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#1687272 - 11/28/09 08:44 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: JustinH]
sparkplug Offline


Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 862
Loc: Massena, NY
Napa or Interstate.
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#1687285 - 11/28/09 09:09 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Black_Thunder]
Air_Speed Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 18
Loc: Buffalo, NY
I have used various Diehard, Bosch, Interstate, and EverStart over the years, and never had a problem. Johnson Controls makes most of them, so the material quality is probably comparable for all. They make Toyota's OEM batteries as well.

Just pick one with a decent warranty at a competitive price.

Some of the low end Duralast batteries at Autozone are made in Mexico, and I would avoid those. I had one that after only 2 years was completely shot. That's probably the only disappointing battery I've ever had. For the price, I expected better.

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#1687399 - 11/28/09 11:26 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Air_Speed]
Tdbo Online   content


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1679
Loc: Ohio
In the last 10-15 years, I have used Diehards, NAPA, AAP Autocraft, and Wal-Mart batteries.
In the early, 90's bought a Die-Hard Gold (over 90 dollars @ the time) and it lasted all of a year and a half in a Chrysler I was driving at the time. Warranty sucked, prorate was $41 to end up with a Diehard Silver (I was getting ready to sell the car) I have never bought another one.
The NAPA (Legend) was a good battery. Just never bought another because NAPA's hours of operation locally never really corresponded at the times that my car batteries woofed.
I have purchased 3 Autocraft Silvers (exides/last one was Johnson) and installed them in a 94 Chrysler Lebaron, a 95 Ford Ranger and a 2000 Ford Taurus. Still have the 2000. Have never had a lick of trouble with any of them.
I have had Wal-mart batteries in four cars over the years: a 1993 Chrysler (Champion Battery) and had to have replaced once under warranty with a bad cell, a 1987 Chevrolet (Everstart) replaced twice in 1.5 years with bad cells under warranty, 1996 Geo replaced once under warranty with a bad cell. Wal-mart IMO may have their act together. Had to buy a Everstart (unplanned) for my 2003 Ranger last winter and have had no problems. Never had any problems getting adjustments on the above (they replaced them free) although it was kind of a hassle at the time.
_________________________
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2008 Ford Mustang Pony Package Convertible 12K
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2003 Ford Ranger 3.0 Supercab 82K

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#1687445 - 11/28/09 12:05 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: crazyoildude]
CROWNVIC4LIFE Offline


Registered: 04/13/09
Posts: 3735
Loc: Miami-Dade County
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
What car Batteries are the best for the money or at least really good i used to like the die hards but the last two i had were not good at all i heard i think auto zone had a good battery does anyone know
99 toyota corolla


Motorcraft always worked well in all my Ford cars...Motorcraft seems to work well in Fords and Delco seems to work well in G.M cars...Interstate holds up well for some people I know as well.

Di Hards on the other hand worked horribly for everyone I know.

Belong to Cosco now so might check them out when I need one next providing I am not stranded and at the mercy of AAA. My buddy just got a Interstate from AAA for his 98 Grand Marquis as he was stranded at the supermarket...He paid 140 bucks for it.
_________________________
05 Ford Crown Vic
5W20 Motorcraft Full Synthetic
Bosh D3410 Filter

07 Merc Grand Marquis
5W20 Motorcraft Full Synthetic
Motorcraft Filter.


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#1687672 - 11/28/09 04:12 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: CROWNVIC4LIFE]
Billbert Offline


Registered: 10/09/09
Posts: 258
Loc: California
Years ago Sears Die Hard's were made by Johnson Controls - EXCELLENT batteries. Interstate and Autozone Duralast and Duralast Gold are made by Johnson Controls
_________________________
If you think you can, or if you think you can't, You are probably right.

ASE Master Auto Tech (retired)

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#1687731 - 11/28/09 05:23 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Billbert]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
Napa Batteries around N.Calif are made by Exide. Johnson control batteries ase better.
_________________________
Why do people post I want the best for my car,,, When there isn't anything that is the best on the car to begin with.

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#1688017 - 11/28/09 09:42 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: LT4 Vette]
crazyoildude Offline


Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 5269
Loc: new jersey
I have duralast gold in my other cars and really like them

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#1688021 - 11/28/09 09:44 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Billbert]
crazyoildude Offline


Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 5269
Loc: new jersey
so everyone agrees Johnson controls make good batteries? Years ago i always used Die Hards but the last 2 did not die hard! I wont use Die Hard anymore

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#1688951 - 11/29/09 08:32 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: crazyoildude]
ronrackley Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 179
Loc: Florida
I have used nothing but Interstate batteries for about 15 years - ever since I discovered that Sears Die Hards were no longer manufactured to their old quality and a mechanic I respect recommended Interstate. I change them one year before the warranty expiration and never have battery problems, just like Die Hards were in the 1970s and 1980s.
_________________________
98 Volvo S90 - Rotella T6 5W40 - Wix
01 Toyota Tacoma - Rotella T6 5W40 - Wix
03 Deville - Rotella T6 5W40 - AC
05 Deville - Rotella T5 10W30 - AC

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#1689111 - 11/29/09 10:34 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: ronrackley]
EagleFTE Offline


Registered: 03/28/08
Posts: 507
Loc: St. louis
Ok so how many manufactureres are making batteries today and who makes what brand names? I'm sure there are some exceptions on certain models much like filters etc.

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#1689959 - 11/30/09 07:00 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: crazyoildude]
Ronn Offline


Registered: 11/23/09
Posts: 129
Loc: Calif
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
What car Batteries are the best for the money or at least really good i used to like the die hards but the last two i had were not good at all i heard i think auto zone had a good battery does anyone know
99 toyota corolla


I own 2 Toyotas. I have an Interstate in my Camry V6 (Supercharged) and my wife has the TOYOTA *Truestart* in her 2002 LE. The Toyota battery is EXCELLENT. I had my Interstate 84 MO battery just conk out on me after 4 yrs 3 months. Her battery lasted over 4 years and was still good when I replaced it. Thing is, the Toyota battery is designed to have a GOOD RESERVE...even though the CCA is less than my Interestate. In fact the RESERVE is 130A vs 125A for my higher CCA Interstate.

Check out these links:
Both our cars take the 24F..that has 130A Reserve according to this chart:
Toyoya battery

The only warranty replacement battery approved for your
Toyota vehicle.
Meets or exceeds Toyota specifications for all vehicles.
The exceptional 84-Month Warranty!
24-month FREE Replacement.
60-month proration in a simple two tier priced plan.
Includes Towing and Installation Labor.*
Coast-to-Coast warranty service at more than 1,200 locations!
*Ask your dealer for specific details.
Features Include:
Matrix Radial Grids to help your battery meet today’s high
current starting demands.
>>>>The right balance of Cold Cranking Amps and Reserve
Capacity to provide power and cranking ability time after time.<<<
A patented lead alloy feature that reduces corrosion of lead
parts and extends the life of your battery.
A Negative Plate Paste Expander that reduces damage caused
by high under-hood temperature or extreme heat.


Here is the INTERSTATE MTP-24F I have on my car (Same size). It has 800CCA, but the RESERVE is 125A:

INTERSTATE BATTERY

Toyota TRUESTART (not the Truestart 2) is a GREAT battery..VERY reliable. Not knocking the Interstate, but CCA isn't the ONLY criteria in selecting a battery.
_________________________


[IMG]http://my350z.com/forum/customavatars/avatar347483_2.gif[/IMG]

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#1690013 - 11/30/09 07:57 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Ronn]
Ronn Offline


Registered: 11/23/09
Posts: 129
Loc: Calif
CORRECTION on RESERVE# in the above post..disregard te *A* after the # it's really the MINUTES (I was thinking AMPS).
_________________________


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#1690434 - 12/01/09 02:47 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Ronn]
JimPghPA Offline


Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 2804
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
Today I just took our 2001 Impala with the 3.4 Liter engine and 58 K miles to a really good local shop that specializes in rebuilding starters and alternator.

I had the Idler pulley, tensioner, and belt replaced in the spring of 2007 about 15 K miles ago, So I knew they were still OK.

The vehicle was starting fine and had no sign of any problem, but the age and millage on the starter and alternator, plus the age of the battery had me concerned.

For the alternator: I had them clean the commutator, and replace the brushes and bearings.

For the starter: I had them clean the commutator, and replace the brushes and bendix and lube the starter.

For the battery: I had them replace the April 2005 Die Hard with a new Interstate Mega-Tron Plus (MTP)-78 with 800 CCA. My cost for this battery $111.00

800 CCA does seam like over kill for a 3.4 Liter V6, but the coldest we ever had here is -22 F (in 1992) and many cars did not start that day. My did. I think the Impala will start at -22F if it has to any time in the next 4 winters.

Total cost after tax $310.30


I replace batteries when they get to be 4 and 3/4 years old. The Die-Hard was rated as a 6 year battery. I will not trust any battery after 4 and 3/4 years. It is not worth taking the chance of having someone get stranded.


I found something interesting on the Interstate Batteries site. Enter your Zip code and when the map comes up click on the little map of the U.S. above the bigger map that comes up. Look at where you live and see how long a battery should last.

I did not know that the life expectance for batteries varies so much depending on where you live. The expectancy shows a maximum of 4.6 years to a minimum of 2.5 years. I happen to be in the 4.6 year area. Right in line with my learned form experience 4 and 3/4 year life expectancy that I fine tune the "get rid of time" with respect to the time of year.

I would urge everyone to go to the Interstate Batteries site and look at battery life expectancy with respect to where YOU live.

One of the things I recently learned regarding vehicle batteries is that Johnson Controls Inc. does make the best vehicle batteries. Johnson Controls Inc. makes batteries uder MANY names such as:

OPTIMA, VARTA, LTH, HELIAR, KIRKLAND, SIGNATURE, TRUE-START, ALLIANCE, AUTOCRAFT, HONDA, DIE-HARD, ACURA, ENERGIZEER, EVERSTART, MITSUBISHI, BLAINS FARM & FLEET, DURALAST, MAZDA, INTERSTATE, PROSTART, and probably a couple of others

I knew that the Interstate battery was a Johnson Controls battery.

I do not know if some of the bad talk about Die-Hard (Sears/and the tire store related to Sears) batteries, and some batteries sold at Wall Mart might be due to the fact that Sears and Wall Mart are connected, and because of the large amount of units they purchase they might put pressure on the supplier to make the product at a lower cost (ie lower quality). Years ago there was a story that Sears put pressure on Michilin to make a tire they were selling through other store chains with less tread deapth for Sears to sell under the same tire name. Michelin told them NO.

Anyhow, with the bad talk about Die-Hard and Wall Mart batteries, and knowing from other means that Sears and Wall Mart are now very closely connected on the corporate level, I chose a Johnson Controls battery name that is not sold at one of these stores that have enough volume and clout to possibly pressure a manufacturer to lower the cost of manufacturing and the quality.

BTW I did pay more for the Interstate battery than I would have paid for a Die-Hard or a Wall Mart battery. Maybe you get what you pay for? I hope so.

Just thought I would pass along what I know about batteries (ie replace them before they fail if you can figure out the life expectancy from your experience where you live, or from the map on the Interstate Battery site). Maintain (service and/or replace as required) Belt(s), Idler Pulley and Tensioner, Alternator, and Starter.

Also as anyone who knows anything about electricity and batteries will tell you: Always go for the highest CCA number battery you can fit into the vehicle.

IF THE BATTERY IN YOUR VEHICLE DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH CCA, YOUR VEHILCE WILL NOT START WHEN IT GETS COLD.

I remember when my neighbor bought a battery with way too little CCA in the beginig of the summer. I took one look at it and knew that there was no way that little of a CCA could crank the engine he had when winter came. Sure enough he had to get a higher CCA battery when the temperature dropped.

Also, I will be replacing the 4 and 3/4 year old Die-Hard in our other vehicle with another Interstate MTP-78 800 CCA this week. I know that the belts, alternator, and starter in that vehicle do not require any attention at present.

JimPghPa



Edited by JimPghPA (12/01/09 03:01 AM)
_________________________
Boy will I be happy when ALL vehicles on public roads are autonomous.


JimPghPa


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#1690967 - 12/01/09 01:56 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: JimPghPA]
JimPghPA Offline


Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 2804
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
I was wondering why the Interstate Batteries site recommended an 800 CCA for the largest battery for our 2001 3.4L Impala, but only recommended a 700 CCA for the largest battery for our 1985 Olds 88 5.0L gas engine vehicle.

I called the phone no. for Interstate and the person I spoke to said that the Olds has a much lower compression engine, probably about 5 to 1, and the Impala has a higher compression engine probably about 9 to 1. He said the recommendations were based on the vehicle manufacturers recommendation. Go ahead and use the 800 CCA for the Olds if it fits.

Interesting that the smaller engine specks a higher CCA. The smaller size and smaller displacement of modern higher compression engines could fool you into thinking a lower CCA would be ok.

JimPghPa
_________________________
Boy will I be happy when ALL vehicles on public roads are autonomous.


JimPghPa


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#1691003 - 12/01/09 02:32 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: JimPghPA]
rengnath Offline


Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
I just replaced the factory battery in my 05 Dodge Dakota to prepare for the winter because I wasnt sure if it would make it through or not. I looked at AutoZone, Checker, Sears and Napa. Napa had a battery that offered 900 C.C.A.'s, but the price was over $140. Sears and Checker had nothing great for the C.C.A.'s. At AutoZone, I picked up a Duralast Gold battery for $90 with 850 C.C.A.'s and it came with a 3 year free replacement and 8 year warranty. In my opinion, it was the best value expecially with that kind of warranty. I was going to put an optima battery in there until I read reviews on them, and the C.C.A.'s werent even that impressive compared to the Duralast gold.
_________________________
05 Dakota SLT - Quad Cab - 4.7l - 4x4
SC Equipped - Airaid CAI - MBRP T304 Duals - Ported TB
105k - Valv Max Life Syn Blend - K&N Oil Filter

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#1691534 - 12/01/09 08:27 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: crazyoildude]
CROWNVIC4LIFE Offline


Registered: 04/13/09
Posts: 3735
Loc: Miami-Dade County
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
What car Batteries are the best for the money or at least really good i used to like the die hards but the last two i had were not good at all i heard i think auto zone had a good battery does anyone know
99 toyota corolla


I would put a Interstate in the Corolla and call it a day...It holds well in Miami jungle heat.
_________________________
05 Ford Crown Vic
5W20 Motorcraft Full Synthetic
Bosh D3410 Filter

07 Merc Grand Marquis
5W20 Motorcraft Full Synthetic
Motorcraft Filter.


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#1693044 - 12/02/09 07:55 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: CROWNVIC4LIFE]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
What car Batteries are the best for the money or at least really good i used to like the die hards but the last two i had were not good at all i heard i think auto zone had a good battery does anyone know
99 toyota corolla


I would put a Interstate in the Corolla and call it a day...It holds well in Miami jungle heat.
They are made by Johnson controls hide
_________________________
Why do people post I want the best for my car,,, When there isn't anything that is the best on the car to begin with.

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#1693046 - 12/02/09 07:56 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: JimPghPA]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
I was wondering why the Interstate Batteries site recommended an 800 CCA for the largest battery for our 2001 3.4L Impala, but only recommended a 700 CCA for the largest battery for our 1985 Olds 88 5.0L gas engine vehicle.

I called the phone no. for Interstate and the person I spoke to said that the Olds has a much lower compression engine, probably about 5 to 1, and the Impala has a higher compression engine probably about 9 to 1. He said the recommendations were based on the vehicle manufacturers recommendation. Go ahead and use the 800 CCA for the Olds if it fits.

Interesting that the smaller engine specks a higher CCA. The smaller size and smaller displacement of modern higher compression engines could fool you into thinking a lower CCA would be ok.

JimPghPa
All the comp controlled engines take lots of amps.
_________________________
Why do people post I want the best for my car,,, When there isn't anything that is the best on the car to begin with.

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#1693587 - 12/03/09 08:19 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Steve S]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6714
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Napa Batteries around N.Calif are made by Exide. Johnson control batteries ase better.

NAPA stores in Florida also use Exide.

When I worked for a used car company, the service writer would buy the 450 CCA 75/35 battery, and they would last 1 year.

I am not sure how long a premium battery would last.
_________________________
2010 Lancer Ralliart Sportback

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#1693842 - 12/03/09 12:39 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: artificialist]
burch2217 Offline


Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 11
Loc: Ohio
Well, gents. I have now read this thread completely... and I had posted one about a Bosch Premium Plus that some of you responded to. Since I am on vacation this week, I've been doing a bit of battery digging and trying to understand how this business really works. I thought I'd share some of what I've found out about my particular size - this is not an attempt to hijack the thread, but to tell everyone about a phone call to Johnson Controls Tech Support that I had today.

To catch some of you up, I own a 2000 Toyota Tundra with its original Panasonic 27F that I am looking to replace after ten years of service. The truck came to me Nov 1999 and has only had the original Panasonic battery. I had narrowed my choices down to Advanced Auto Autocraft and the Bosch Premium Plus. The Advanced Auto Autocraft is a Johnson Controls product and the Bosch Premium Plus is an Exide product. Each company has confirmed to me that such is the case.

In my looking, I started keeping track of both battery availability and who was supposedly manufacturing it, and I thought it made sense to tell you guys what I know and found out about Johnson Controls 27F product that might shed some light on batteries and I thought was interesting. These are all facts and can be verified if anyone wants to take the time.

When I started originally looking, I noticed that Interstate, Sears, Oreilly's, Advanced Auto, and the Toyota dealer had the Johnson Control based 27Fs in my area. Neither Autozone or WalMart carry the 27F....And those who do have it have only one choice in the size and the specs for those options are IDENTICAL.

So this AM, I called the Interstate Warehouse here in Cincinnati and started asking some questions. This Interstate dealer said they do, in fact, supply Toyota with its Trustart and they deliver to the local dealers as Toyota has a national contract with Interstate. He said in the 27F size, the Toyota TruStart battery is the equivalent of their Megatron Plus and in the 24F size, the Toyota TruStart is the equivalent of the Interstate Megatron. And he said that their is NO Interstate Megatron in the 27F size. And, if you go to the dealer and buy the 27F, you get the equivalent of the Megatron Plus. He also confirmed, even though I already knew it, that their Interstate product was a Johnson Controls built battery.

So this AM, I placed a phone call to Johnson Controls Power Solutions in Glendale Wisconsin and was ultimately sent to the Tech Department as the normal customer service folks realize that they can't deal with my questions. Ultimately, I get a call from one of their customer service engineer types and we discuss what they actually make in the 27F size.

He immediately identifies that I must own an non-US type truck as those are the most typical vehicle for this size battery and there are ONLY ~1.5 million vehicles in this market size. By contrast, if the battery class is 24F, then there is ~24 million vehicles for this size.

So I then start asking about how many different batteries Johnson Controls actually make in the 27F size. He responds that they make only ONE. There is not enough market to justify more than that - he then goes on to say that every private label Johnson Control battery in this 27F class is the same - be it an Interstate Megatron, an Advanced Auto Autocraft, an Oreilly SuperStart, a Sears DieHard International, or whatever (they are obviously packaged different). In addition, he confirmed that Autozone does not get the 27F. I then asked him this: based upon what you're saying to me, then its really a question of price as far as the build is concerned. He responded yes.... he did go on to say that Private Label warranties should be considered as well. (There isn't too much of a difference there for the 27F : except that the Sears International is ~$140 for their 3 yr warranty -- everyone else is in the 18 month to 2 year class at a more reasonable price point).

As a contrast, he said that in the 24F, they actually make four different battery lines which are different based upon CCA... and those are picked up and Private Labeled by all the manufacturers (Interstate, Autozone, WalMart, Advanced Auto, Sears). He went on to say that in the 24F, there are actually differences in the "North" and "South" versions of the battery -trading CCA for plates and heat tolerance ("South" batteries have fewer plates to minimize the effect of heat on them at the expense of CCA while "North" batteries have more plates therefore more CCA).

I hope that this helps everyone confirm some of the stuff we've deduced about batteries... but I took this from it. In the case of Johnson Controls, it isn't obvious to me that batteries are spec'd by the Private labels - I think Johnson makes batteries based upon what it sees as the market, and the Private labelers contort the marketplace by putting their own spins on it (After all the engineer from Johnson told me that every 27F is built the same) .. At least in the case of my 27F assuming that I buy a Johnson Controls battery, I'm going to go buy based upon purely price as Johnson Controls told me that they only make one aftermarket battery in that size.

(Sorry for the long post - but I hope it helps everyone understand. I'm of the opinion that this post has the potential to torque some individuals off who love Sears Diehard, Interstate, or Autozone Duralast or some other Private Labeler. But I believe all this is fact and can be verified if someone else wants to take the time I've spent on it).


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#1693988 - 12/03/09 02:34 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: burch2217]
n8wvi Offline


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 622
Loc: 42.4N 85.7W
Just for more kudos to Johnson Controls, the OEM battery in our 2002 Outback (purchased new in August of 2001) is a JC battery (says so right on the top). Notice I said 'is', not 'was'. It's still in there. Car is a 3.0L six, with 10.7:1 compression. Has heated seats, mirrors, and lower windshield. Factory fog lamps. Low beams that stay on when the high beams are on. We live in Michigan. Needless to say, it hasn't had it easy, and is over 8 years old. To me, there's only one brand I'll consider when it finally does need to be replaced. USA

Dave
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#1694175 - 12/03/09 05:59 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: n8wvi]
JimPghPA Offline


Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 2804
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
One web site I read said that Autozone will replace a battery under warranty if a customer brings one back after their vehicle killed it, via what-ever means. The down side is that Autozone then cleans up these returned batteries, and charge them up. If they hold a charge they are sold as new.

So the warning is: Always take a close look at the terminals of any battery you purchase from Autozone, (and probably any other store), BEFORE THE BATTERY IS PUT INTO YOUR VEHICLE.

NEW BATTERIES DO NOT HAVE MARKS ON THE TERMINALS FROM PREVIOUS BATTERY CABLE CONNECTIONS.

In my research on batteries, one site lead me to a Wikipedia post about Interstate Batteries Inc. It was surprising to see that Interstate Batteries Inc. is a very ethical company, dedicated to providing the highest quality battery in ethical ways. They even have a clergy person on their payroll to watch over the practices of the company.

Another site (if I remember correctly it was by Interstate) said that Interstate used many taxi cabs in Las-Vegas to heat test there batteries and develop them to be durable and last.

Somewhere I read that the lower end Duralast are made in Mexico and not reliable. That was confirmed by the people who I had go over the Alternator and Starter and install the new Interstate battery. When I mentioned to them that a Duralast from Autozone would be 20 dollars cheaper, but I was not sure about what I would be getting in a Duralast. He said that they do get some Duralast in that have failed early and they are made in Mexico.

If I ever do purchase a Duralast it would be a Duralast Gold so it would be made by Johnson Controls.

This thread on BITOG reminds me of the Star Trek Borg Collective, "many minds working together to accomplish a task".

There are many got-chas out there in mechanical endeavors of most kinds. Hopefully by sharing what we know, and learning from others we can waste less time, and money, improve reliability, and lessen vehicle down-time.

JimPghPa



Edited by JimPghPA (12/03/09 06:02 PM)
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#1694285 - 12/03/09 07:07 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: burch2217]
Tdbo Online   content


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1679
Loc: Ohio
Great post. You confirmed many of the things that I have been told over the years. Batteries are a product that you pretty much get what you pay for. Within price points by manufacturer, they are all pretty much the same. It seems to all basically come down to:
1. Turnover of stock at point of sale
2. Best warranty at best price
3. Convenience,user friendliness,and access to warranty if needed
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#1694531 - 12/03/09 11:04 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Tdbo]
JimPghPA Offline


Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 2804
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
I thought someone would pick up on the Borg Collective lead and respond with:

Resistance is futile, UNLESS IT IS CAUSED BY A DIRTY BATTERY CABLE CONNECTION, then it is a BIG PROBLEM.

Seriously, if you replace a battery with side terminals, take a small regular screwdriver (the ones that have about a 1/8 inch wide blade work great) and scrape the metal mating surface on the cable so that it is shiny. Be sure to get the small protrusions that indent into the lead on the battery shiny. And of course if it is a top terminal clean them up to (use the old style round wire brush designed for top battery connectors, or, in a pinch a wire brush for cleaning a shotgun will work).

If you are having someone else replace the battery bring the small screwdriver with you and ask them to clean it.

When large amounts of current flow it only takes a small amount of resistance to cause a significant voltage drop, and your car battery only has 12 volts to start with, and when the starter is cranking the output of the battery will have dropped to less than 12 volts so you even have less to loose. Resistance from dirty connections can easily cause enough voltage drop to prevent your vehicle from starting.

Voltage drop = Resistance X Current

If you have 100 Amps flowing and the resistance is only 6/100 of an Ohm you will have a 6 Volt drop.

If you have 600 Amps flowing and the resistance is only 1/100 of an Ohm you will have a 6 Volt drop.

In either case a 6 volt drop is enough to prevent you vehicles ignition, computer, and starter from working properly.

IT DOES NOT TAKE MUCH RESISTANCE (DIRTY CONNECTION) TO CAUSE TOO MUCH VOLTAGE DROP IN SYSTEMS THAT HAVE HUNDREDS OF AMPS FLOWING.

JimPghPa

Ps: I think I have thought enough about batteries for a while.
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#1702374 - 12/10/09 12:35 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: JimPghPA]
HTSS_TR Offline


Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 12901
Loc: Irvine, CA
The size 27F is OEM in my 1994 Lexus LS400 too. I had to buy it from Kragen which is made by Exide because I could not find it at Costco, Sams Club nor Walmart. But the size 27, same physical size with 27F with reverse terminal, is available everywhere.
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#1702887 - 12/10/09 12:54 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: burch2217]
Jim 5 Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 4009
Loc: Calgary Canada
Die Hard Platinums are re-badged Odyssey AGM batteries at almost 1/2 price.

Odyssey batteries are considered one of the best batteries around, having the reputation that Optimas used to have.
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#1703089 - 12/10/09 03:11 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: burch2217]
Kaboomba Offline


Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 782
Loc: SE WI, USA
burch: great post, very informative!

I would like to add to your excellent post the following:

It is highly-to-extremely likely that the varying warranties offered by private retailers of JC-mfr'd batteries reflects the batch quality of the product they purchased from JC.

In other words, if Sears pays a little extra at wholesale to obtain batteries which are close to nominal design spec (as opposed to other batteries which are not so close to nominal, but are within design limits), they can easily make a profit while including a justifiably-generous warranty when the battery is retailed.

They charge more and offer more warranty because they sell only the creme-de-la-creme of the JC crop.


Edited by Kaboomba (12/10/09 03:12 PM)
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#1703190 - 12/10/09 04:55 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Kaboomba]
Tdbo Online   content


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1679
Loc: Ohio
Or they just have a generous time warranty on the battery to use as a selling point, and then they ding the customer on the pro rate on the battery if they need to utilize the warranty (like Sears did to me on an 18 month old DieHard Gold.) Last Sears battery I ever bought.
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#1728542 - 01/02/10 03:57 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Billbert]
JimPghPA Offline


Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 2804
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
The following is a taken from a post on another thread related to a vehicle for Canada.

From Wikipedia:

"Cold cranking amperes (CCA) is the amount of current a battery can provide at 0 °F / -18 °C. The rating is defined as the current a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt battery). It is a more demanding test than those at higher temperatures."

Now add that information to the chemical fact that most chemical reactions, including the chemical reactions that go on inside of a vehicles battery will double in reaction rate capability for every 10 degree C / 18 degree F or going the other direction on the temperature scale will half for every -10 degree C / -18 degree F.

What this means is that a battery that has 800 CCA at 0F/ -18C will have 400 CCA at -18F / -28C, and only 200 CCA -36F / -38C and only 100 CCA at -54F / -48C

The CCA drops of by half for every -10C / -18F, reduction in temp. While at the same time the power required to turn the engine is increasing due to the oil becoming thicker, and posibly the tolerance on how some internal moving parts might shrink at different rates.

It becomes obvious why good batteries with high CCA are a good idea. And also why using more than one battery is a good idea.

If you go to the Interstate battery site and enter your zip code a map will come up. If you click on the little map above that map you can see that for extreme cold temperatures the life expectancy of batteries drops off.

And if you let a battery become discharged at very cold temperatures it will freze solid and be ruined. Something about the chemistry of the acid requires it to have the majority of the charge to have the lowest freezing point.

Also batteries that are sold for U.S. southern states have a weaker acid solution than those sold for northern states. If you order new Interstate batteries for what-ever vehicle you are going to take north you might have those batteries special ordered for that climate. It may be that the Interstate batteries sold in northern Canada have a stronger acid than those sold in the northern U.S.
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#1732004 - 01/05/10 01:52 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: JimPghPA]
JimPghPA Offline


Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 2804
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
Re, storing a battery:

Most chemical reactions, including the chemical reactions that go on inside of a vehicles battery will double in reaction rate for every 10 degree C / 18 degree F or going the other direction on the temperature scale will half for every -10 degree C / -18 degree F.

If two identical batteries A and B are stored and battery B is kept at 10C / 18F colder temperature, battery B will age half as fast.

The colder you keep the battery the less it will age.

Another thing you have to be aware of is that the freezing temperature of a lead acid battery is very dependant of the amount of charge on the battery. A discharged battery will freeze at a much warmer temperature than a fully charged battery. If you are going to store it at out-door temperatures you have to be sure it NEVER is allowed to be mostly discharged. You would want it to be between 75% and 100% charged if stored in outdoor temperatures. If it freezes it will be permanently damaged.

Also if you over charge it it will be damaged.

The safest thing for the battery is to store it in a very cold room in a cellar where the temperature never gets below freezing.

I would put a charge on it about once every 3 or 4 weeks for a few hours.
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#1756405 - 01/26/10 12:17 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: JimPghPA]
heypete Offline


Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 402
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Anyhow, with the bad talk about Die-Hard and Wall Mart batteries, and knowing from other means that Sears and Wall Mart are now very closely connected on the corporate level


Say what? They're entirely separate companies.
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#1758006 - 01/27/10 04:20 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: heypete]
Tdbo Online   content


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1679
Loc: Ohio
K Mart (not Wal Mart) owns Sears.
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#1758070 - 01/27/10 05:40 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Tdbo]
rszappa1 Offline


Registered: 02/24/06
Posts: 1664
Loc: louisville ky
Does anyone out there know if the new duracell automotive batteries are any good????

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#1758454 - 01/27/10 10:27 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: rszappa1]
mrkdk Offline


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 29
Loc: sc
Does anybody know how many line of group size 75 johnson control makes? I heard group 75 was the most common size of car battery.

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#1758747 - 01/28/10 07:27 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: mrkdk]
CDX825 Offline


Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 104
Loc: Litchfield, Ohio
I'm a big fan of Deka batteries if you can get them. They are a true American battery manufacturer and in my opinion make one of the best batteries money can buy. If you are lucky enough to live close to the plant in PA you can get scratch and ding batteries for cheap.

For those who do not know Johnson controls owns Optima and is why they are no longer a quality battery. Johnson controls decided they were going to cut corners and not use the highest quality lead and manufacture the batteries in mexico.
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#1759664 - 01/28/10 08:22 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: CDX825]
mrkdk Offline


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 29
Loc: sc
When i asked johnson control about group 75! how many line or version!They said that proprietary information.

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#1766128 - 02/02/10 07:39 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Billbert]
JimPghPA Offline


Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 2804
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
L_Sludger from Cincinnati post on anoter thread here on BITOG:

"I just bought a brand new Interstate Mega-Tron Plus MTP-24F 1000CA battery from Firestone for $74 out the door (no core charge), and its sitting in my garage right now. The battery looks like it was just made, and the folks at the shop told me that it got there from the truck just last week."



I am no fan of Firestone, especially since they talked my youngest brothr into un-necessarly replacing the air-pressure sensors when he had the first replacement set of tires put on his car and they toped off that by inproperly installing them and all 4 leaked when it got cold out. But that is one heck of a great price for a 1000 CCA Interstate Battery.
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#1771494 - 02/06/10 07:28 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: JimPghPA]
qship1996 Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 740
Loc: md
Big difference between a "1000CA" and a "1000CCA" rated battery- also why not check the date code yourself stamped right on the battery to determine accurate "build date" instead of believing the salesman??/

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#1773163 - 02/08/10 01:08 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: qship1996]
JimPghPA Offline


Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 2804
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
Good catch on the CA vs CCA, I missed that. I will have to keep an eye out for that in the future.
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#1775666 - 02/09/10 05:46 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: JimPghPA]
SLCraig Offline


Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 5274
Loc: London, ON, Canada
Great thread. I think when I need a new battery for my Saturn I'll pickup a Kirkland from Costco (being as its apparently made by JC)

Always wondered about who made what.. Looks like Energizer made by JC too. Got one for my fathers' Nissan from Wal-Mart and that thing has been cranking perfectly too in this cold winter.

Nice. :)
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#1783461 - 02/16/10 08:44 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: JimPghPA]
RacerE7773 Offline


Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 973
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
I only expect to get 4 and 3/4 years out of any battery even if they say 6 year life. I replace them at 4 and 3/4 and never have a car get stranded due to the battery.

A good general rule is to always get the largest cold cranking amps you can get in the largest plain jane nothing fancy battery.
And expect the battery to fail any time after 4 and 3/4 years regardless if the rating is for 5 or 6 years.

JimPghPa
thumbsup
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#1791597 - 02/22/10 08:39 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: RacerE7773]
dwcopple Offline


Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 3357
Loc: Michigan
I have a patient in my therapy office right now who retired from east Penn manufacturing and he sold Deka batteries. He said Meijer batteries are Deka's. He is probably biased, but he swears by the technology. They have a neat website too.
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#1799330 - 03/01/10 09:34 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: dwcopple]
Y_K Offline


Registered: 05/29/09
Posts: 996
Loc: WA (USA)
If you get a nice top-off charger | desulphator your battery will thank you and last forever..
Something like batteryminder control unit with a nice polycrystalline solar panel will do you a lot of service for your automotive needs and beyond
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#1802273 - 03/03/10 02:45 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Y_K]
fsskier Offline


Registered: 07/22/08
Posts: 770
Loc: Iowa
A couple of notes that nobody has mentioned here. Sears contracts with both Exide and Johnson controls for their Diehard brand... in some parts of the country you get one or the other.

Several years ago they were involved in a lengthy and well publicized court battle with Exide over their high failure rate. If you look it up you will even find mail fraud charges, as Exide faked some tests and mailed them to Sears!

A Walmart Everlast battery I bought about 6 years ago ( the smallest one they sell, 29.95) says Johnson controls on it and is still working well.

A walmart Everlast I bought 2 years ago says Exide on it... and is corroding badly. Exide was still using lead plates alloyed with antimony last I knew, and they still outgas quite a bit.

The Johnson Controls batteries are lead-calcium and do not outgas hardly at all, and generally do not corrode the terminals.

Those of you with an unregulated battery charger can easily tell which type you have:

A lead- antimony battery will never go much over 14.4 volts and will accept about 2 amps at that voltage even after they are fully charged. That, of course results in electrolysis, with attendant loss of water and outgasing.

The lead-calcium batteries... when fully charged... pretty much just shut the door on incoming current, the voltage may rise well above 15 volts with less than one amp going in.
They never need water added, as the pretty much totally avoid the electrolysis by no longer accepting incoming current.

Running this test, you will find the two types are markedly different!

Lead Calcium batteries also have a very low rate of self-discharge... just losing their charge sitting around. They easily hold a charge for 6 months or more when stored - with no load.

Lead Antimony batteries autodischarge, they can loose 1 percent a day and be considered normal.


Nobody but Exide makes lead-antimony batteries anymore to my knowledge.

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#1802315 - 03/03/10 03:04 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: fsskier]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
Exide batteries are the last choice.
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Why do people post I want the best for my car,,, When there isn't anything that is the best on the car to begin with.

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#1805613 - 03/05/10 10:37 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Billbert]
JimPghPA Offline


Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 2804
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
I viewed the Interstate Batteries site on January 2, 2010 when it had the map of the life expectancy shown in sections, for North America and Canada.

Interstate Batteries has changed their web site and the current version has no link to that information.
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#1809575 - 03/09/10 12:12 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Billbert]
ahoier Offline


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 1720
Loc: Cocoa, FL
Never had a problem with a walmart (EverStart) batter. The fact that they got 3 year replacement, 5-year pro-rate, that's appealing :)

With the Florida heat, average battery life here is about 24 months though....lol. So I bet they get their share of returns (those who go for the more expensive "MAXX" brand that is).

Their "Value" batteries are only 1 year replacement, 6 month pro-rate afaik.

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#1885225 - 05/09/10 11:20 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: ahoier]
Discovery Offline


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 3
Loc: Oregon
I have had the best Luck with:

Ac-Delco
Interstate
Deka

Currently have been using the Deka brand for 4 years now in various applications with no issues.

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#1903701 - 05/26/10 06:36 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: JimPghPA]
jimvegas Offline


Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Las Vegas
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA

Another site (if I remember correctly it was by Interstate) said that Interstate used many taxi cabs in Las-Vegas to heat test there batteries and develop them to be durable and last.



In the front of my Motorcraft battery book it says that the BXT-65-650 Tested Tough Max battery was tested/developed in the Las Vegas taxi cabs.
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#1971913 - 08/01/10 10:16 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: JimPghPA]
Scotty1981 Offline


Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 270
Loc: Ohio USA
I dont replace them until they leave me stranded but I also carry one of those black and decker self jump start things so I don't need to worry about finding someone to give me a jump. It also has an air pump, light, DC to AC inverter and alternator checker all in one unit was about 100 bucks at wal mart.
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#1971980 - 08/01/10 11:35 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Scotty1981]
CROWNVIC4LIFE Offline


Registered: 04/13/09
Posts: 3735
Loc: Miami-Dade County
Originally Posted By: Scotty1981
I dont replace them until they leave me stranded but I also carry one of those black and decker self jump start things so I don't need to worry about finding someone to give me a jump.


In certain areas in Miami [and elsewhere] if you get stranded [only for a few minutes] there is a good chance your wife and kids won't see you anymore.
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#1972702 - 08/02/10 06:03 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: CROWNVIC4LIFE]
Scotty1981 Offline


Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 270
Loc: Ohio USA
They have jumpstart units you can plug into your 12V and not even have to get out of the car to jumpstart it.

If the area is that bad, why go there in the first place, sounds like just by being there you wouldn't see your family even if the car would start once you got in it.

When I say stranded I mean car wouldn't start, I've never had a battery go bad wehre the car just stalled out and quit running while I was driving.
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#1972751 - 08/02/10 08:00 AM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Scotty1981]
CROWNVIC4LIFE Offline


Registered: 04/13/09
Posts: 3735
Loc: Miami-Dade County
Originally Posted By: Scotty1981

If the area is that bad, why go there in the first place, sounds like just by being there you wouldn't see your family even if the car would start once you got in it.


Alot of buisnesses and warehouses are in real bad areas.
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#1974532 - 08/03/10 03:32 PM Re: Best Car and light truck batteries [Re: Scotty1981]
JimPghPA Offline


Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 2804
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Scotty1981
They have jumpstart units you can plug into your 12V and not even have to get out of the car to jumpstart it.

If the area is that bad, why go there in the first place, sounds like just by being there you wouldn't see your family even if the car would start once you got in it.

When I say stranded I mean car wouldn't start, I've never had a battery go bad wehre the car just stalled out and quit running while I was driving.


The connection from inside the car is fused and therefore the current that you can supply from any device to the vehicle battery and or starter is limited by the fuse. You could supply enough current to charge the vehicles battery so that it would start after being charged. But you could not supply anywhere near enough current to crank an engine with a dead battery.

For jump starting a vehicle with a dead battery without spending a long time charging the battery before attempting to start it you would have to connect the big clips to the battery to get a connection that could handle the current.
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Boy will I be happy when ALL vehicles on public roads are autonomous.


JimPghPa


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