PP 10W30, 7350 miles, '01 Grand Prix GT 3800 V6

[WishIhadatruck]

This oil was run from 6/20/09 until 11/11/09. It was 10W-30 PP with a Napa Gold oil filter. My last UOA looked good enough that I decided to run the oil longer this time. I went about 200 miles past the point where my dummy light for my OLM went off. It does not show a % for my car.

I drive pretty gentle most of the time.
Wix air filter. Air filter changed at 110k miles on the odo and again at this oil change. I'm changing it every 10k now.

Blackstone Coments:
You took the oil change interval up another notch and wear reads similarly to where it has in recent trends. Copper and lead bumped up a little, but neither reads excessively. In fact, when you look at unit/location averages, the wear profile in this sample matches up with them very closely, which suggests normal wear for this engine over the course of this most current oil change interval. The 3.4 TBN means that plenty of oil additive was still active as of the sample date. The low viscosity is a non-issue and no coolant was noted. Try ~9,400 miles next oil run.

Comments welcome. I've got PP 5W/30 in it now with a Wix oil filter and plan to run it until spring. I think going 10k is pretty safe. My goal is to just change the oil every 6 months which could be up to 11k miles per OCI. Copper is up some but lower than last time on a per mile basis. Lead is higher than last time too but not higher than the Universal Average. Still no sign of a return of the intake gasket coolant leak that was repaired in the spring of '08. Hopefully it is gone for good.

Code:


OIL PP10W30 PP10W30 PYB10W30 PP5W30 M110W30 M110W30

MILES IN USE 7.4k 5.0k 3.4k 5.1k 5.7k 4.9k Uni Avg

MILES 117.5k 110k 87.1k 80.5k 70.4k 64.8k

SAMPLE TAKEN 11/11/09 6/20/09 6/10/08 2/28/08 9/2/07 7/3/06



ALUMINUM 3 2 2 3 3 2 3

CHROMIUM 1 1 1 1 1 1 1

IRON 9 8 9 24 14 8 13

COPPER 25 19 21 28 39 30 17

LEAD 8 5 9 4 21 19 8

TIN 0 0 2 1 0 0 1

MOLYBDENUM 49 48 3 52 98 83 65

NICKEL 0 0 0 1 0 0 0

MANGANESE 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

SILVER 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

POTASSIUM 0 2 7 11 1 3 7

BORON 29 36 114 34 47 52 45

SILICON 15 11 29 13 12 12 11

SODIUM 2 2 8 10 5 4 24

CALCIUM 2809 2944 2018 2919 2184 2354 2078

MAGNESIUM 10 10 7 12 11 13 90

PHOSPHORUS 649 639 646 656 538 589 691

ZINC 728 832 784 819 675 745 848

BARIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0 0





INSOLUBLES 0.3 0.3 0.2 0.3 0.3 0.3

WATER 0 0 0 0 0 0

FLASHPOINT ºF 390 410 400 400 410 420

SUS VIS 210ºF 58.2 59.2 56.6 57.9 58.6 60.8

cSt @ 100ºC 9.70 9.99 9.24 9.63 9.83 10.44

TBN 3.4 n/a n/a 3.9 3.7 n/a

 

[Turk]

Ho-hum, another fabulous PP report.

 

[Gary Allan]

The odd thing here is that your Fe, which normally tracks mileage in just about any engine, has settled down ..and your copper is within norms ..and tracking mileage

 

[JohnBrowning]

This is the best tbn retension I have seen with PP on an oil change interval this long. It helps though that the Buick 3.8 is about as gentle as anyone can get on oil!

Their are plenty of [censored] PP reports this one reflects the nature of the engine it is in and not the chemistry of the product! Wesson would probably do as well in this engine it has the lowest coefiecent of friction of any V6 on the market according to Wards Auto World and was Engine of the year for V6's for something like 12 years running or close to it!The engine calls for 10W30 though not 5W30.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
Wesson would probably do as well in this engine...


So you think the Wesson would do better than the Mobil 1 that was not as good as the PP?

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
The engine calls for 10W30 though not 5W30.


That is why I ran 10W30 in it. However it requires (per the manual) 5W30 for below 0 F weather which I will likely see in the next OCI this winter. It also suggest for extreme cold 5W30 synthetic or 0W30. Over 60F it requires 10W30.

 

[mechanicx]

This looks really good and good for PP. It looks like you do a lot of highway miles though right? Maybe that was a factor in the oil holding up so well. Plus I assume your locale is not that harsh in late spring through early fall. When you go through Winter and you drop down to 5w30 (smart) you might seen a little more wear on the oil and shouldn't go as long. I noticed the only time the PP looked a little bad was when it ran through a Winter (Mobil 1 looked bad too). I don't see anything wrong really with changing the oil when the TBN starts to go below 3.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

Yes, probably 2/3's of my miles are highway. I drive it pretty easy as well. 30 miles one way to work.

The only other time I had my oil tested with PP 5W30 I also had coolant in my oil. That was during winter and my iron was high but that could have been the coolant. We'll see in the spring.

 

[addyguy]

Looks good. Will do 10k comfortably.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
Yes, probably 2/3's of my miles are highway. I drive it pretty easy as well. 30 miles one way to work.


that sounds like idea conditions almost.

Quote:
The only other time I had my oil tested with PP 5W30 I also had coolant in my oil. That was during winter and my iron was high but that could have been the coolant. We'll see in the spring.


Was that the time listed in your post where sodium and potassium was a little high? That could explain why the iron, lead and copper were higher. The mobil 1 had elevated metals too but there wasn't any signs of coolant that i saw or winter use. The PP looks better.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
Yes, probably 2/3's of my miles are highway. I drive it pretty easy as well. 30 miles one way to work.


that sounds like idea conditions almost.

Quote:
The only other time I had my oil tested with PP 5W30 I also had coolant in my oil. That was during winter and my iron was high but that could have been the coolant. We'll see in the spring.


Was that the time listed in your post where sodium and potassium was a little high? That could explain why the iron, lead and copper were higher. The mobil 1 had elevated metals too but there wasn't any signs of coolant that i saw or winter use. The PP looks better.


Yes, when I pulled a sample at the end of the OCI on 2/28/08 I had just finished my 2nd OCI of PP and it was winter so it was the 5W30 weight. This was my first UOA of PP and my lead and copper were down compared to the M1, especially the lead, but it did show elevated sodium and potassium for the first time. I had it repaired shortly after that. The PP seems to be much better than the M1. I always assumed the 2/28/08 sample had high iron due to the coolant leak but perhaps it had something to do with the 5W30 (vs. 10W30) or that fact that it was winter. Hopefully my next sample I pull in the spring looks just as good as this one, we'll see.

 

[ATS-V]

Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
Yes, when I pulled a sample at the end of the OCI on 2/28/08 I had just finished my 2nd OCI of PP and it was winter so it was the 5W30 weight. This was my first UOA of PP and my lead and copper were down compared to the M1, especially the lead, but it did show elevated sodium and potassium for the first time. I had it repaired shortly after that. The PP seems to be much better than the M1. I always assumed the 2/28/08 sample had high iron due to the coolant leak but perhaps it had something to do with the 5W30 (vs. 10W30) or that fact that it was winter. Hopefully my next sample I pull in the spring looks just as good as this one, we'll see.


You coolant leak didn't affect the results. If you compare your pre and post leak UOA to mine it's right on par and my leak has not been repaired.

I have now replaced my water pump and coolant elbow since they were both leaking and now can begin monitoring my coolant lose more accurately.

BTW, what coolant are you running?

 

[WishIhadatruck]

Originally Posted By: 97 GTP
Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
Yes, when I pulled a sample at the end of the OCI on 2/28/08 I had just finished my 2nd OCI of PP and it was winter so it was the 5W30 weight. This was my first UOA of PP and my lead and copper were down compared to the M1, especially the lead, but it did show elevated sodium and potassium for the first time. I had it repaired shortly after that. The PP seems to be much better than the M1. I always assumed the 2/28/08 sample had high iron due to the coolant leak but perhaps it had something to do with the 5W30 (vs. 10W30) or that fact that it was winter. Hopefully my next sample I pull in the spring looks just as good as this one, we'll see.


You coolant leak didn't affect the results. If you compare your pre and post leak UOA to mine it's right on par and my leak has not been repaired.

I have now replaced my water pump and coolant elbow since they were both leaking and now can begin monitoring my coolant lose more accurately.

BTW, what coolant are you running?


Certainly some of the wear has come down (lead for instance) due to switching to PP. I still wonder about the iron spike, I think it was the coolant leak but there is no way to know for sure.

I don't recall the name they gave me but my local repair shop that did the repair uses a universal coolant. It is probably similar to Dexcool. The name was nothing I had heard of before. Up until that time I had run Dexcool with one flush by the dealer when the car was 5 years old.

 

[JoeFromPA]

Running PP 5w30 in my Civic SI right now. Currently 9800 miles on the fill. I was going to change it out this weekend right at 10000 miles and do a UOA, but now I'm thinking about waiting till 11k...



Joe

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
Yes, when I pulled a sample at the end of the OCI on 2/28/08 I had just finished my 2nd OCI of PP and it was winter so it was the 5W30 weight. This was my first UOA of PP and my lead and copper were down compared to the M1, especially the lead, but it did show elevated sodium and potassium for the first time. I had it repaired shortly after that. The PP seems to be much better than the M1. I always assumed the 2/28/08 sample had high iron due to the coolant leak but perhaps it had something to do with the 5W30 (vs. 10W30) or that fact that it was winter. Hopefully my next sample I pull in the spring looks just as good as this one, we'll see.


Well the M1 10w30 did worse, and when you look at it there was no winter driving or signs of coolant in the oil at that point but still high iron. I don't mean to knock Mobil 1, but there doesn't seem to be an explanation for the high metals with it and the Mobil might have elevated the levels when you put the PP5W30 in next.

One thing is clear with the 5W30 PP is you were driving in Winter and had a coolant leak. I don't know the nature of the coolant leak, but you had signs of coolant in the oil. Combine possible coolant in the oil and winter driving and it seems that both were a factor (plus the Mobil 1 was already giving you high metals before all this). I don't think the 5w30 viscosity would've raised the wear metals in Winter but only lowered them if anything.

Well this Winter when you run PP 5W30 I think you will have more answers when you do an UOA. This is just how I'm reading the UOAs.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

I had alway run M1 previously but I initially switched another car I had due to high wear readings. On that car I just added 1 quart of Syntec 5W-50 to 3.5 quarts of M1 and it was significantly improved. This was on an older '94 GP with the 3100V6. It then had a massive intake leak and with 212k miles I gave it away to charity. My wagon also had high bearing wear that went away when I switched from GC to Rotella T 10W-30. I'm going to switch that car over to PP next and see how it does. I've never had a car that would give good results on just any oil, they all seem fussy. I'll run this 5W-30 PP util April and by then I'll have 9k+ miles on it and we'll see how the UOA looks then.

 

[[RT] ProjUltraZ]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
it has the lowest coefiecent of friction of any V6 on the market according to Wards Auto World and was Engine of the year for V6's for something like 12 years running or close to it!


well blow me down, and it's from GM