checks the cabinets for cheetos!

I don't find it severe. If you look at your first (1 of 4) it's comparable to his in zinc and most other additive levels.

I figure the retail price with a modest profit would be say $20/qt? But if you got into serious volume production, maybe as low as $10/qt?

Gary and Bruce, what say you?

$10/quart would be the easy part...I think. Shipping it in 5 gallon lots @ 40lb+ would be the killer.

If that was the case, a HTHS of nominally 2.6 cP, then there was no greater risk in running this oil than any typical 2.6 cP 20wt and very possibly less since this oil won't likely shear unlike most dino and other GP III VII containing 20wt's.

Gary, earlier in this thread you made reference to oil pressures in the Jeep, does it have a gauge?

Gary probably has an aircraft cockpit in his Jeep.

If he doesn't, I do.

Good one, Jim. That's more like what my minivan looked like. Not as clean (not even close), but I was using it as a testing platform where gauges might be in there today and not tomorrow.

Yes, I've got a real OEM gauge. As much as people assert otherwise, mine is fairly accurate on both my wife's 99 and my 02. Accurate might not be the right word. The index can make it a guesstimate on what the true reading is since you've got 0-40-80 and divisions in between. On the 02, you can see the transition between full envelopment and where the relief closes as it eeeeeeases up to the peak pressure. On the wife's ..the HV oil pump slams the needle right up to the 58lb limit that the aftermarket company spec's for the pump.

That said, the lowest oil pressure I've seen would be at 215F coolant temp and a similar oil temp..at idle ..and it would be somewhere around 28psi. On my engine, the oil:coolant heat exchanger won't let the coolant go above the 195F thermostat setting until it gets to the point of low/limited/no exchange.

With a 40 grade, you're either at 50+/- ..or 40+ over all temp ranges.

I've reached over 10k on this sump. I'll be sending it in shortly to Bruce, Dyson, Blackstone ..and maybe Oil Analyzers.

I've experienced my first consumption with this oil. At about 7500 miles into it, I consumed approximately 16 oz. This was the same consumption seen with Delvac 1 5w-40 and Agip PC 5w-40 when driven at a rate of about 15k/year. This did not occur with back to back 13 month OCI's with RTS, but that was probably due to some mixology with fuel in the short(er) trip usage. Those OCI's were only around 9.5k over 13 months.

16oz. were also consumed with sampling at the 5k point. The sump was topped off with one quart of new oil @ the 7500 mile (+/-) mark.

$5.00 to $6.00 for components is not bad for tote blending, considering it's been stated he's using mostly GroupIII and PAO.

Barium compounds have typically been used in the following applications:

1. Rust inhibitors

2. Corrosion Inhibitors

3. Soot dispersants for diesel engines.

Of late, the concern over heavy metals has reduced the use of Barium compounds. One interesting facet of this fact is that Barium does not bioaccumulate as do other metals; I.E., it doesn't build up in most living cells.

It would surely be more difficult, in some creative sorta way, to manage a SN formulation. The SL phos/zinc levels surely made it easier.

Bruce has pondered an ash free formula. Whether or not that can be done in an ultra-light weight is something I do not know.

This has been a long trip. Assuming all looks well (to the degree that we can determine) I don't know what's next.

Jim, that's very impressive.
I think you've pretty much got things covered.

Gary, so if I understand you correctly, the oil pressure (hot) in the Jeep with various 40wt oils was in the 68 to 78 psi range?
That's 28 + 40 and 28 + 50?

What sort of max' hot oil pressure do you see with the Bruce Blend?

Have you run a 30wt or 20wt in the Jeep? Do you recall the max' hot oil pressure with those oils?

My pressure limit is around 60psi. While Jeep "spec's" anything up to 75lbs (iirc), that I interpret as stress limits on the distributor drive. The variance from unit to unit ..or rather year to year, can be substatial.

With a 5w-40 it will settle out at (somewhere near, but under) 60lbs and retreat to about 45lb. Very narrow range.

With the 0w-10 it can still reach the just <60lb but can retreat to (fuzzy) <30psi. Much broader range.

At highway, they're both about the same. This pump is the same for an engine 50% bigger with 50% more of everything except the timing chain to lube.

The gauge is somewhat more dampened than the one on my wife's. Both gauges get their input from the PCM.


I've run mostly 5w-40 in this engine from a very early age. I did do one bought of 5w-20 for an Auto-Rx double dose treatment to get the moly slug out of it. Hot idle pressures were in the near 40psi+/-.

The 0w-10 was the first oil to dip to this range, and then it's only since I've allowed the coolant temp to drift up to 210+/- with fan setpoints.

I'd like to throw some independent gauges on the thing. The theft of my minivan robbed me of a substantial amount of hardware that took a very long time to accumulate at (for me) substantial cost.

no consumption with 0w-10? niceeeee

Gary, sorry to hear about the minivan theft.

The reason for asking about oil pressure was to indirctly determine the HTHS vis of the Bruce blend 0W-10.
If the hot idle pressure was similar to the the 20wt you ran then the Bruce Blend 0W-10 may indeed have a HTHS vis close to 2.6 cP.

If you have an accurate pressure gauge, an oil temp gauge and a tachometer for reference it makes comparing the actual operating viscosity of different oils quite easy and precise. HTHS vis correlates well with the hot operating viscosity in an engine; kinematic viscosity does not.
So if you know the HTHS of a known oil, that can be you reference. You simply take an oil pressure reading with the engine oil hot (close to 100C or hotter) at close to max rev's.
If one of the reference oils is a 20wt with a HTHS vis of 2.6 cP then you'll know it's oil pressure at the above conditions.
When you try the oil with the unknown HTHS vis under the same parameters, if the oil pressure is the same then so is the HTHS vis. If the oil pressure is lower then so is the HTHS vis. In my experience, a 2.5% drop in pressure equates very approximately to 0.1 cP.

Anyway it give you an idea and it's a lot cheaper than paying a lab for a single HTHS vis test.