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#1687452 - 11/28/09 12:12 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: c3po]
Paleomonster Offline


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 9
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: c3po
LC20 levels the TBN, reduces oxidation, provides an extra measure of lubricity, provides extra rust control, and will literally melt (soften and emulsify) carbonaceous deposits. It then places these carbonaceous deposits into the oil solution.

If we look at LC20 we can see that the product softens and emulsifies the deposits and then places it in the oil solution so your oil filter does not get loaded up with stuff as opposed to arx which breaks off deposits that can clog your oil filter. If your oil filter goes into bypass you have junk floating around your engine.

I have seen plenty of arx filter posts where people claim they have grit in there oil filters, there is no doubt arx works to a point, but I would rather use a product like LC20 that is not going to have me buying extra oil filters.

Is there a problem with arx in transmissions, the answer is NO, becuase a screened trans filter traps down to 100 microns and a felt trans filter traps down to 60 microns.

Is there a problem with arx in powersteering systems and differentials, NO, that's because they do not have any type of oil filter.

In an engine we use oil filters that may have a micron rating of 19 microns or less, these particles that arx breaks off are much bigger and they just get trapped in the oil filter reducing oil flow and eventually going into bypass.

Then there is price, if you buy a gallon of LC20 with shipping it comes out to .38 cents an ounce.

If you were to buy 3 bottles of arx that comes out to $1.83 an ounce, by 10 bottles of arx and you are still looking at almost $1.33 an ounce.

I have not used LC20 but I did gather some information and I may eventually use the product.




I have a question about the size of junk found in the filter when using arx. I've seen these bits that are much larger than the openings in the screen that protects the inlet side of the oil pickup. Can it be that they arive in small bits and recombine in the filter as the junk builds up.

The only damage I've seen because of large bits has been because they get caught in the inlet side of the pickup screen, never in the filter.

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#1687465 - 11/28/09 12:24 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: Gary Allan]
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 20749
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Then you get chased off by "the crew".


Oil additive opinions aren't a zero sum game, Gary. crackmeup

For years and years, the furor and scare tactics with which the Auto-RX cabal and it's cohorts came down on ANYONE who dared praise a different product or criticize the sweet magic, expensive nectar that is Auto-RX, makes the current backlash against the product look like a a fight between two 6 year old girls.

Just like your theory of economics, don't be surprised when people who were run through the oil additive meat grinder and stabbed behind the back aren't thrilled to get some payback.

Frank and the Auto-RX cabal did some pretty nasty things that I think only a handful of people on this site know about.

But, OTOH, the MMO fanatics have gone a little overboard here and there as well.



Edited by Drew99GT (11/28/09 12:30 PM)

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#1687532 - 11/28/09 01:25 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: Drew99GT]
ADFD1 Offline


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 1714
Loc: CA.
Somehow I feel like when people are referring to "The Crew", that I am a part of it. I feel I know enough about A-Rx to comment about it, and no I am not bashing it. My father used MMO for years, and read about A-rX on this site back in the day when the owner and a few of his guys would defend it like a mother defending a child. Anyhow my dad tried it, 2 treatments, he had been an avid MMO user, and thought he'd try it on a car he bought with an known service history. In all honesty his remarks were there was nothing A-rX could do that MMO couldn't do. Then went on to say MMO did it faster and for less, and cleaned up varnish really well, as well as sludge, and quiet things down.

It seems there are still a few guys who still defend A-rX, and to some of us it gets a little old. Then again the MMO cheer leaders are probably ticking the A-rX guys off [sorry guys]. That could be why these threads grow like this. Since it is an open forum these things do happen, but if we keep a civil tone and no name calling I think it's all good. I don't want to be considered part of "The Crew", but if I am so be it.

I've learned a lot here, and I'm happy about that.
_________________________
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#1687574 - 11/28/09 02:04 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: ZZman]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3351
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: ZZman
This thread makes we want to try Auto-RX even more just to test it myself! Christmas is coming......


That is the *best* way. Then you will have first hand experience. Nothing really beats that.
_________________________

Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#1687590 - 11/28/09 02:38 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: AzFireGuy79]
c3po Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 3358
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
Funny, I remember talking to frank about a year ago and him mentioning Brent and how he was in support of the product and was getting bashed for it here. So lets hear it brent, what's your issue?


I started using arx in my El Camino at 343,000 miles and for the next 24,000 miles I did 3 Clean and Rinses followed by a few Maintenance Doses with arx. There is no doubt that arx worked for me since I went through 22 oil filters in 24,000 miles. My oil never really got dark looking except when I started using Pennzoil Platinum at 361,000 miles. I remember saying to myself why is PP darkening my oil more than arx and dino oil. I came to realize that arx was just breaking stuff off in pieces that would eventually clog the oil filter.

I then remembered guys like Mori, kingrob, and greenaccord02 were so against arx, I Pmed these 3 members and they basically said the product did not work, they just did not let up. I would post favoribly about arx in threads and get called an arx Robot and an arx cheerleader. I could never really understand the hostility about arx.

One day I PMed a member named Demarpaint about not getting results with arx, his oil filter was light as a feather for both the Clean and Rinse Phases, I said how can this be, he told me that he used MMO in his oil 500 miles before an oil change and he would then run a full quart in the wintertime.

I was very skeptical since I had bought into the arx position that all other oil additives were useless, but after 24,000 miles I was tired of going through oil filters and I could never get a clear answer from arx about my oil filter issues. I put in 16 ounces of MMO in my oil 500 miles before my oil change, Demarpaint had told me that I would notice a difference right away and he was right, the car just felt more responsive.

I then changed my oil after having MMO in there for 500 miles and the oil filter was light as a feather, I concluded that arx breaks off deposits into tiny pieces and MMO liquifies junk and holds it in suspension in the oil. I also noticed the oil that was drained that had MMO in there came out much darker than it ever had before.

I then told many arx users about this and they got better results with MMO, just like me. There must have been about 20 members or so who knew what I was doing, I was leading a Double Life, here I was an ARX Moderator and Supporter and I was using another product and getting better results.

Before I used MMO I searched the net for any problems with the product, I PMed another arx moderator about Demarpaint recommending MMO in the oil, he told me that he had used either MMO or Neutra 500 miles before his oil changes. I was still skeptical, so I called my Dad's friend that he grew up with in Brooklyn N.Y. and had been a mechanic for UPS from 1960 till 1995, he told me that he had been using MMO since 1955 and never had any problems with it, he said do not overdose the product.

I then started and ARX & MMO Thread and I was attacked for using another product and it got ugly, I got upset and did some investigating and I found out that arx had never tested there product on an automobile engine, it was actually tested on an automatic transmission. I knew there was more to this puzzle of why so many members were not getting results with arx. I just went through the whole oil additive section and I read every arx thread and every arx post, anyone including myself who was associated with arx, I just read there posts.

I then started and ARX & Aluminum Engine Thread that showed arx had a problem with aluminum and everything seemed to fall into place.

I feel if arx had left my ARX & MMO Thread alone and not attacked me then I probably would never gone through the whole oil additive section to find out why there was constant fighting about arx.

I am sorry if any of my arx posts misled anyone, I thought it was doing a great job, but I realized that when I switched to MMO that I was getting better results.

At 1st I was upset with Frank Miller, but in reality I was the one that called him and bought his product, I believed everything he said about solvents being bad for our engines, I took his word for everything and I probably should have researched the whole oil additive section back in 2007, meaning going through all of the arx posts.

If anyone wants to check out my posts just click on my username and you can see all of my old posts or you can PM me if you have any questions.

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#1687628 - 11/28/09 03:20 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: c3po]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21338
Loc: NY
When I bought A-Rx I bought it with trying to stop a leak in mind, and do some cleaning. What I discovered was this, actually it is pretty basic. You can't clean something that isn't dirty. I believe the MMO cleaned and kept my engine clean, what I was hoping for was the leak to stop, which in fact it did, something MMO was not able to do. It came back during the OC following the final A-Rx rinse, at that point I was not adding MMO to the oil I was using 4 oz of A-Rx. You won't see me bashing the product because not all problems can be solved with additives. I might try a HM oil now, but in all honesty the leak isn't bad enough to upset me.

I had mentioned to c3po that sometimes changing chemistry to clean something up is a good idea, and to give MMO a shot. His complaint was after 24,000 miles and a lot of filters he'd be done, and have a clean engine.

It doesn't matter to me what a person uses to clean his engine, I keep an open mind, read a lot and am not afraid to experiment with my beater. I have over the years seen first hand what MMO can do with cleaning and I've always been impressed. I've also read about a lot of A-Rx success stories. If a person wants to try it I say go for it, they offer a guarantee if you're not happy with it you really have nothing to fear, and can always try something else.

I will however call a product out that makes claims that defy logic, neither of these products make such claims.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#1687661 - 11/28/09 04:02 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: demarpaint]
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11006
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
Brent honesty isn't your strong point is it?

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#1687666 - 11/28/09 04:06 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: sprintman]
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 20749
Loc: Colorado Springs
What is brent honesty? Is that similar to brutal honesty or something?

Sorry, someone has to take up mori's cause!

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#1687687 - 11/28/09 04:36 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: Drew99GT]
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11006
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
Sorry bet put glasses on.

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#1687720 - 11/28/09 05:10 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: sprintman]
AzFireGuy79 Offline


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 1286
Loc: Arizona
So whats the "REAL" story?
_________________________
2008 Chevrolet 2500HD 6.6 DMAX, CCSB,Z71
2011 JEEP Grand Cherokee Overland HEMI 5.7

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#1687729 - 11/28/09 05:20 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: AzFireGuy79]
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11006
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
Dummy spit! Big Bear didn't get something he wanted.

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#1687775 - 11/28/09 06:18 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: sprintman]
c3po Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 3358
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Brent honesty isn't your strong point is it?


My honesty certainly was not my strong point when I was an ARX Moderator, my posts were obviously over embellished and the mistake I made is that I should have waited until I was done with the whole arx process before posting my results.

I did start using MMO in April of 2009 and I did wait awhile before posting because I wanted to get some observations under my belt before I started posting about the product.

From my observations I feel that some of these oil additives that cost less than $5.00 a bottle are just as good or BETTER than auto-rx that costs $25.00

I remember a conversation I had with an arx moderator and he told me isn't it strange that I am seeing better results with MMO that is a cheaper product versus ARX which is a more expensive product, he said it should be the other way around. When you spend a couple of dollars on an oil additive and it does not work it is not a big deal, but when you spend $25.00 on an oil additive you expect to see and feel results, the more money you spend on an oil additive it seems logical that your expectations would be higher.

When you look at products like:

1) Schaeffer's Neutra
2) MMO
3) Rislone

These 3 products have 2 things in common, there application instructions do not change and they work.

I invite members to look at my posts since August of 2009 when I started showing my observations about MMO, I would think other members results with MMO would show that I am being honest. I now see that some members are now looking at other products like LC20 and Rislone.

I just think that a few members are upset because I brought facts to everyone about the limitations of arx. If arx was a perfect product then I would have found nothing. I never found any problems with MMO, Neutra, and Rislone. The posts I found about arx were from members own observations.

Again, as I said before, if you have any questions about anything I have posted on this board and you have questions or concerns about my HONESTY then members can PM me, I have absolutely nothing to hide.

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#1687862 - 11/28/09 07:35 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: demarpaint]
SL8R Offline


Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 94
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
When I bought A-Rx I bought it with trying to stop a leak in mind, and do some cleaning. What I discovered was this, actually it is pretty basic. You can't clean something that isn't dirty. I believe the MMO cleaned and kept my engine clean, what I was hoping for was the leak to stop, which in fact it did, something MMO was not able to do. It came back during the OC following the final A-Rx rinse, at that point I was not adding MMO to the oil I was using 4 oz of A-Rx. You won't see me bashing the product because not all problems can be solved with additives. I might try a HM oil now, but in all honesty the leak isn't bad enough to upset me.

I had mentioned to c3po that sometimes changing chemistry to clean something up is a good idea, and to give MMO a shot. His complaint was after 24,000 miles and a lot of filters he'd be done, and have a clean engine.

It doesn't matter to me what a person uses to clean his engine, I keep an open mind, read a lot and am not afraid to experiment with my beater. I have over the years seen first hand what MMO can do with cleaning and I've always been impressed. I've also read about a lot of A-Rx success stories. If a person wants to try it I say go for it, they offer a guarantee if you're not happy with it you really have nothing to fear, and can always try something else.

I will however call a product out that makes claims that defy logic, neither of these products make such claims.


Demarpaint, can you elaborate on the leak that you were trying to treat? Was this a new-to-you car that had a leak, or was this a car that developed a leak after following your regular MMO protocol?

Cheers,

Jeff

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#1687875 - 11/28/09 07:45 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: c3po]
SL8R Offline


Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 94
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
c3po,

When you say that MMO is working "better" for you, what is your definition of "better"? In your particular case, it would seem to be hard to draw any conclusions regarding MMO's efficacy compared to ARX, since you're using MMO in engines that have already completed an ARX clean/rinse cycle.

From reading people's accounts on here that MMO keeps their engine clean, it would seem that MMO is a very good product, particularly on a cost/benefit analysis basis.

I will say that your experience with ARX is contrary to my own. I don't think that either of the cars that I've used it in were sludged or extremely dirty and the in both cases the filters came out looking not much different than on previous non-ARX changes. However, in both cars I observed increased and/or normalized compression across cylinders, so I'm fairly certain that some cleaning was done. Perhaps an MMO treatment would have yielded the same results (and I regret not having tried it first, but it is not available in Canada) for much less cost.

Cheers,

Jeff

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#1687972 - 11/28/09 09:08 PM Re: Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer [Re: SL8R]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21338
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: SL8R
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
When I bought A-Rx I bought it with trying to stop a leak in mind, and do some cleaning. What I discovered was this, actually it is pretty basic. You can't clean something that isn't dirty. I believe the MMO cleaned and kept my engine clean, what I was hoping for was the leak to stop, which in fact it did, something MMO was not able to do. It came back during the OC following the final A-Rx rinse, at that point I was not adding MMO to the oil I was using 4 oz of A-Rx. You won't see me bashing the product because not all problems can be solved with additives. I might try a HM oil now, but in all honesty the leak isn't bad enough to upset me.

I had mentioned to c3po that sometimes changing chemistry to clean something up is a good idea, and to give MMO a shot. His complaint was after 24,000 miles and a lot of filters he'd be done, and have a clean engine.

It doesn't matter to me what a person uses to clean his engine, I keep an open mind, read a lot and am not afraid to experiment with my beater. I have over the years seen first hand what MMO can do with cleaning and I've always been impressed. I've also read about a lot of A-Rx success stories. If a person wants to try it I say go for it, they offer a guarantee if you're not happy with it you really have nothing to fear, and can always try something else.

I will however call a product out that makes claims that defy logic, neither of these products make such claims.


Demarpaint, can you elaborate on the leak that you were trying to treat? Was this a new-to-you car that had a leak, or was this a car that developed a leak after following your regular MMO protocol?

Cheers,

Jeff



It is a 93 Aerostar that I owned for about 10 years and I had logged about 115,000 miles on. I had the leak for many years, slow from the rear main seal. As I said MMO did nothing in terms of stopping the leak, it has probably been slowly leaking for about 100,000 miles now, nice and slow.

I read a lot about A-Rx here as many did and thought I'd give it a try. I followed the directions to the letter, and changed filters halfway through the clean and rinse phase of the first treatment. I did two clean and rinse cycles. I expected filters loaded and heavy as a brick, they were exactly the same as any filter I ever removed from that engine. I also thought my oil would come out like black tar. That didn't happen either.

As mentioned above the leak stopped for a while [at least it appeared to have stopped], and then it came back. I had discontinued MMO use and was on the A-Rx maint dose when the leak came back. I'm not saying the product was bad, I'm saying the leak came back. I am also saying that my guess is my filters were light, and my oil wasn't black like tar because the engine was clean to begin with.


10 years is a long time and it is quite possible that seal was leaking since I bought the car. I paid more attention to it because I bought the A-Rx with resolving that issue in mind. This vehicle is considered to be our beater, not neglected but certainly not a car I am going to do major work on to fix a slow leak. If it were my Jeep or E-150 it would be another story.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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