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#1586331 - 09/01/09 10:57 PM New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines.
mrsilv04 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 5873
Loc: Illinois
I stumbled across a LawnBoy dealer last week who still has 3 new push mowers left with 2 cycle engines.

These are 21" push units with the steel deck. Basic.

I was shocked that there were some new ones still out there. I had figured that all of the new 2 cycle units had been sold by now.
_________________________

President of the Illinois chapter of 'Motorcyclists for Global Warming'.

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#1586394 - 09/02/09 12:20 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: mrsilv04]
tomcat27 Offline


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 2395
Loc: Midwest
They dont get much airplay anymore, but I have always really liked Lawnboys. I dont know about the new motors, but the older gens used to have timing advance - on a mower! which really boosted the power output. additionally, the engines are really light - making the mower really easy to manuever, and those are commercial duty engines that last forever! really unappreciated. hmmm.. too bad you're so far south.

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#1586443 - 09/02/09 05:19 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: tomcat27]
Best F100 Offline


Registered: 09/19/04
Posts: 370
Loc: Tennessee
That's a rare find. I would have thought the same thing until I saw one like you described for sale at a Meijers (Midwest Super Wal Mart type store) last summer. Seeing a new, discontinued mower like that is like having a face to face look at a Sasquatch.

If all mowers have the 6 1/2 HP Duraforce engines on them I can vouch for that engine in two words - very strong! A lot of them tend to surge however, so you might have to tinker with it to allievate the problem. I own two, 2 cycle Lawn Boys with that engine + all the whistles and bells on them: 1) A self propelled Commercial Version with a red 1 gallon gas tank and 2) An electric start, Personal Pace (Easy Stride), self propel version.
At only 80 to 85lbs total, they both are powerful, light and manuverable. Kind of like an F16. The push version you saw should be even lighter. That is why I sold my used Toro Super Recycler mower (which struggled in tall, thick grass), to get the second mower.

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#1586490 - 09/02/09 07:39 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: mrsilv04]
Kruse Offline


Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 2895
Loc: Kansas
I owned a Lawn Boy that I purchased in the mid '90s and it was one of the best push mowers that I've ever owned.
If the price is right, buy at least one.

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#1586537 - 09/02/09 08:29 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Kruse]
beanoil Offline


Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1933
Loc: Midwest, Illinois
MMMM Yummy. I love my Lawn Boy.. A 10 year old, aluminum deck, commercial 5 horse. It has never failed me. 32:1 MX2T, and some midgrade fuel, an MP3 player, and I'm mowin.
_________________________
beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.

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#1586669 - 09/02/09 10:27 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: beanoil]
97 GTP Offline


Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 842
Loc: LI, NY
My dad bought one in the 70s, we put a commercial engine (Iron Horse IIRC) on it in the mid 80's and it saw light use until '01 when I stopped using it. Now my brother bought a house and started using it again, starts on the first pull.

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#1586691 - 09/02/09 10:49 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: 97 GTP]
RWEST Offline


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 1373
Loc: Somerset County, PA
WOW!! Are they self-propelled or regular push jobs? Great mowers!! Who is the guy? Maybe I'll see if he'll ship one to me.
_________________________
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"live so the preacher doesn't have to lie at your funeral" wink



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#1586885 - 09/02/09 01:47 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Best F100]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 6943
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: Best F100
That's a rare find. I would have thought the same thing until I saw one like you described for sale at a Meijers (Midwest Super Wal Mart type store) last summer. Seeing a new, discontinued mower like that is like having a face to face look at a Sasquatch.


That's the truth. AFAIK, Residential grade 2-stroke Lawn Boys were discontinued years ago.

Joel
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#1586898 - 09/02/09 01:55 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: mrsilv04]
zulu Offline


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 528
Loc: Kansas
The 2 cycles are fetching upwards of $750+ brand new on ebay and craigslist. The lawncare guys are snatching up any they can find.
_________________________
09 Silverado 5.3 -> M1 5W-30/AC Delco PF48
12 Civic Si 2.4 -> Honda (CP Blend) 0W-20/Honda A02

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#1586967 - 09/02/09 02:58 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: zulu]
Nayov Offline


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 595
Loc: ME
So what's the advantage of a 2 cycle over a 4 cycle mower?

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#1586978 - 09/02/09 03:16 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Nayov]
lexus114 Offline


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 5974
Loc: Easton, PA
Originally Posted By: Nayov
So what's the advantage of a 2 cycle over a 4 cycle mower?


NONE!!
_________________________
2012 Mercedes-Benz C300 4matic
2005 Lexus RX330 AWD

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#1586988 - 09/02/09 03:26 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Nayov]
Kruse Offline


Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 2895
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Nayov
So what's the advantage of a 2 cycle over a 4 cycle mower?


Advantage: Lots of torque and you never have to change your oil.
Disadvantage: They pollute the air more than a 4 cycle mower, hence they were taken off the market. (They seriously are a good mower though)

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#1587015 - 09/02/09 03:49 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Nayov]
Nick R Offline


Registered: 07/14/09
Posts: 10273
Loc: Saratoga, NY
Originally Posted By: Nayov
So what's the advantage of a 2 cycle over a 4 cycle mower?


Excellent power/weight ratio, lighter. But they pollute like sonofab, smoke, foul plugs easier... generally everything that makes weed whackers/leafblowers bad.
_________________________
13 Ford Focus SE 2.0L/27,000miles/Valvoline Synpower 0W-20/MC FL-910S
13 Chevy Traverse 3.6L/12,000mi/QSUD 5W-30/FRAM Ultra
11 Chevy Cruze 1.4T/26k

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#1587170 - 09/02/09 07:16 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Nayov]
oily boyd Offline


Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 490
Loc: WI
Quote:
So what's the advantage of a 2 cycle over a 4 cycle mower?


Another advantage is that the motor is propoerly oiled when mowing very steep hills.
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Boyd

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#1587182 - 09/02/09 07:27 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: oily boyd]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 6943
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: oily boyd
Another advantage is that the motor is propoerly oiled when mowing very steep hills.


IMO, that's your major advantage right there. That and no need to maintain/change engine oil. Everything else can easily be exceeded by an OHV 4-stroke.

Joel


Edited by JTK (09/02/09 07:27 PM)
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#1587185 - 09/02/09 07:38 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: JTK]
greenaccord02 Offline


Registered: 04/22/07
Posts: 5215
Loc: Houston, Tx, USA
The torque on those things is INSANE though. Simpler design is always better IMO. Less parts to break.
_________________________
  1. '95 Dakota 3.9L - M1 0W-40 - MC FL1A
  2. '97 Accord F22-B1 - M1 5W-30 - Bosch 3312
  3. '99 Camry 1MZ-FE - PP 5W-30 - M1-209

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#1587208 - 09/02/09 07:58 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: greenaccord02]
Tom_T Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 91
Loc: Jacksonville, Fl
Coolest sounding mower on the block, unless a neighbor has a Toro with a Suzuki 2 stroke! Those engines have a soul built right into them.

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#1587213 - 09/02/09 08:02 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Nick R]
Best F100 Offline


Registered: 09/19/04
Posts: 370
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: Nayov
So what's the advantage of a 2 cycle over a 4 cycle mower?


Excellent power/weight ratio, lighter. But they pollute like sonofab, smoke, foul plugs easier... generally everything that makes weed whackers/leafblowers bad.



You can get almost eliminate all the the smoke, fouled plugs and carbon built up on the exhaust port by using a synthetic 2 cycle oil. Examples are the discontinued Mobil 1 2T (I have a bunch stocked up), Amsoil and a few others. I just get a puff of smoke on start up, and that's about all I see.

Funny story: I cut my neighbors yard with HIS old style, 2 cycle Lawn Boy (he was on vacation). He uses mineral based, 2 cycle oil. There was a tree that had a hornets nest up on one of the limbs. There was so much smoke, that when I cut under a tree, well I guess that mower smoke woke up the hive. It looked like an air force release of hornets coming out. Well, I took off running down the hill to get away. I was trying to beat them off my head with my cap. The mower did not have a shut off handle. It kept going on its own in the opposite direction. My two kids who watched it all from a distance, fell on the ground from laughter. I'm done (& I'm stung).

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#1587271 - 09/02/09 08:46 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Tom_T]
Kruse Offline


Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 2895
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Tom_T
Coolest sounding mower on the block, unless a neighbor has a Toro with a Suzuki 2 stroke! Those engines have a soul built right into them.


I had a co-worker who had a Snapper 2 cycle push lawn mower. I'd never seen one before and he told me they were rare. I don't know who made the engine for it, but it sounded pretty cool.

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#1587484 - 09/03/09 12:49 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Kruse]
dwendt44 Offline


Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 3571
Loc: Central Wisconsin
I ran my old Lawn-Boy on 40:1 conventional oil. Little or no smoke. Never fouled a plug the whole time I had it.
Like 14 years.
_________________________
There's no such thing as:
Too big of a battery,
Too large of a gas tank,
or too loud of a horn,
or too bright headlights.

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#1587666 - 09/03/09 08:27 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: dwendt44]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 6943
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Maybe I'm more used to hearing the Suzuki 2-stoke powered Toro pushmowers, but all they sounded like to me is a mad swarm of bees. Max governed RPM on them is quite low. Brrrrrr... crackle.. pop....

Joel
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#1587996 - 09/03/09 01:08 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: JTK]
Nayov Offline


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 595
Loc: ME
How are the crank and rod bearings lubed in a 2 cycle?

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#1588132 - 09/03/09 03:15 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Nayov]
Kruse Offline


Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 2895
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Nayov
How are the crank and rod bearings lubed in a 2 cycle?


I can't talk about Lawn Boy, as I've never had one apart. But a lot of them have roller bearings.

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#1588153 - 09/03/09 03:41 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Nayov]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 6943
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: Nayov
How are the crank and rod bearings lubed in a 2 cycle?


Some of the intake air/fuel charge blows through the crankcase. The bearings are lubed by the mist.

Joel
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#1589398 - 09/04/09 06:54 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: JTK]
tomcat27 Offline


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 2395
Loc: Midwest
they run forever

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#1590539 - 09/05/09 08:59 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: tomcat27]
Nick R Offline


Registered: 07/14/09
Posts: 10273
Loc: Saratoga, NY
I actually saw some new lawnboy mowers in home depot yesterday. They had Briggs & Stratton 6xx series engines on them.
_________________________
13 Ford Focus SE 2.0L/27,000miles/Valvoline Synpower 0W-20/MC FL-910S
13 Chevy Traverse 3.6L/12,000mi/QSUD 5W-30/FRAM Ultra
11 Chevy Cruze 1.4T/26k

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#1590586 - 09/05/09 09:32 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Nick R]
mrsilv04 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 5873
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
I actually saw some new lawnboy mowers in home depot yesterday. They had Briggs & Stratton 6xx series engines on them.


That's a 4 cycle engine, which is what all LawnBoys come with now.
_________________________

President of the Illinois chapter of 'Motorcyclists for Global Warming'.

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#1590598 - 09/05/09 09:45 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: mrsilv04]
Nick R Offline


Registered: 07/14/09
Posts: 10273
Loc: Saratoga, NY
I know, I was under the assumption that lawnboys haven't been made for years.
_________________________
13 Ford Focus SE 2.0L/27,000miles/Valvoline Synpower 0W-20/MC FL-910S
13 Chevy Traverse 3.6L/12,000mi/QSUD 5W-30/FRAM Ultra
11 Chevy Cruze 1.4T/26k

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#1595023 - 09/10/09 07:49 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: JTK]
Jeff3126 Offline


Registered: 09/06/09
Posts: 181
Loc: S FL
the lawnboys never stood up to commercial use too well.
_________________________
2006 Ford Ranger, 3.0 V6, M1 5w-20/AAP Total Grip, Fumoto!

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#1595038 - 09/10/09 08:06 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Jeff3126]
greenaccord02 Offline


Registered: 04/22/07
Posts: 5215
Loc: Houston, Tx, USA
Was there a common failure or a pattern of failure that you're aware of?
_________________________
  1. '95 Dakota 3.9L - M1 0W-40 - MC FL1A
  2. '97 Accord F22-B1 - M1 5W-30 - Bosch 3312
  3. '99 Camry 1MZ-FE - PP 5W-30 - M1-209

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#1595040 - 09/10/09 08:10 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: greenaccord02]
wavinwayne Offline


Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 7519
Loc: North Alabama
I know we're not discussing the 4-stroke LB's, but anyway....I love the looks of the LB push mowers that The Home Depot is now selling. If I had $400+ to blow on a new push mower, one of those shiny green LB's would be on my short list. Either that or a Honda.
_________________________
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

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#1595348 - 09/10/09 01:40 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: JTK]
RWEST Offline


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 1373
Loc: Somerset County, PA
Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: Nayov
How are the crank and rod bearings lubed in a 2 cycle?


Some of the intake air/fuel charge blows through the crankcase. The bearings are lubed by the mist.

Joel

And they work quite well!!!
_________________________
"even if you're paranoid, they can still be following you" hide

"live so the preacher doesn't have to lie at your funeral" wink



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#1595477 - 09/10/09 03:24 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: RWEST]
Pete591 Offline


Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 931
Loc: Michigan
I spoke to a neighbor of mine that is a Senior Engine Exec at Ford...helped.designed the eco-boost Lincoln Engine (copy of the BMW and Audi engines they have had for a while..twin turbos on a V-6..) and who has a 26 year Old Lawnboy..always used "Lawnboy" 2-cycle oil....runs like new

He said that if Toro (who now owns LawnBoy) cared to develop a "green" 2-cycle engine it could be done pretty easilly...and there is lots of demand for them!

He sees a synthetic oil being used...lean burn technology with replacing carb with injection...direct injection of oil and design engine with metalurgy (silicon aluminum) so a 200:1 would work...specially designed catalytic converter to burn all carbon off...easy to build and do....put the engine on a magnesium deck and could compete with a top of the line Honda and outlast it too.

But in America ...we always take the easy way out...it's called discontinuation...instead of evolution. That's why educated people buy froeign a lot of times!

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#1596016 - 09/11/09 12:00 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: dwendt44]
pidster Offline


Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 548
Loc: ontario canada
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
I ran my old Lawn-Boy on 40:1 conventional oil. Little or no smoke. Never fouled a plug the whole time I had it.
Like 14 years.


As it should be. 2-cycles seem to have a reputation for being smelly and smoky, but in my experience the cause is usually user error. Too much oil in the gas. Assuming the engine/carb aren't worn out or out of tune, a proper oi/gas mix should make VERY little smoke if any at all, certainly nothing noticeable.

And for something like a smaller mower or trimmer, a 2-cycle is so much easier to work with for all the reasons mentioned above, its a real shame these things are going extinct. The eco-weenies strike again.
_________________________
2010 Ford Ranger Sport 4x4, 4.0L Manual 5 speed
All Motorcraft Filters
Current fill: Mobil 1 0w40 with Lubro Moly MoS2

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#1596036 - 09/11/09 12:35 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: pidster]
dwendt44 Offline


Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 3571
Loc: Central Wisconsin
All that high tech stuff just for a lawn mower engine?
It would cost a lot to do and to buy.
The public isn't eager to buy a $500 or $600 mower now, let alone a $1000 one.
_________________________
There's no such thing as:
Too big of a battery,
Too large of a gas tank,
or too loud of a horn,
or too bright headlights.

Top
#1596046 - 09/11/09 01:09 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: dwendt44]
greenaccord02 Offline


Registered: 04/22/07
Posts: 5215
Loc: Houston, Tx, USA
We need to get Johnny in this thread. He's got some really nice older 2T Lawnboy stuff. It's beautiful, actually. No joke.
_________________________
  1. '95 Dakota 3.9L - M1 0W-40 - MC FL1A
  2. '97 Accord F22-B1 - M1 5W-30 - Bosch 3312
  3. '99 Camry 1MZ-FE - PP 5W-30 - M1-209

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#1596418 - 09/11/09 09:35 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: greenaccord02]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 6943
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Like Pete says, modern 2-stroke technology is there. It's been there a LONG time. I recall an experimental super clean burn and fuel efficient 4cyl 2-stroke Ford was 'developing' for small FWD cars 20yrs ago when I was in college. They had one scooting around in an Escort. Thing is- for a mower, one good whack on a stump or rock and that high tech super expensive push mower is as much a goner as a $99 Walmart special would be. I think the other issue with a plain'ol 2-stroke is not so much the oil smoke, no matter how lean you make the mix, you STILL spew a bunch of hydrocarbons out the exhaust in unburnt gasoline. Lots of raw gas goes right out the exhaust on a typical old school 2-stroke, regardless of the oil in the mix.

Joel


Edited by JTK (09/11/09 09:37 AM)
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#1597522 - 09/12/09 07:15 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: JTK]
Brett Miller Offline


Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 2636
Loc: Arizona
I grew up moving grass with 2 different Lawn Boy's. My grandpartents had one that was over 35 years old before the deck literally fell apart. I sure wish I would have bought one 5 years ago when 2 strokes were still available.

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#1597566 - 09/12/09 08:12 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: greenaccord02]
Jeff3126 Offline


Registered: 09/06/09
Posts: 181
Loc: S FL
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Was there a common failure or a pattern of failure that you're aware of?
The wheels would get bent, gear boxes would fail, throttle cables, etc. The company I work for has a few lawnboys left, but we are moving to Toro's commercial machines, more $$ but much better quality IMHO.
_________________________
2006 Ford Ranger, 3.0 V6, M1 5w-20/AAP Total Grip, Fumoto!

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#1598230 - 09/12/09 09:28 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Jeff3126]
FRR Offline


Registered: 11/19/03
Posts: 2
Loc: Kanata, Ontario
I still own a 2T Lawnboy with a 4.5hp engine and aluminum deck (bought in 1991)and it only briefly smokes when cold starting. At the time when I bought I was also looking at Honda mowers and it was the Honda salesman that sold me on the Lawnboy. He told me that he was getting a lot of Lawnboy owners who were getting fed up, after 15 years of mixing oil and gas, and were buying Hondas (at the time a Lawmboy mower cost $236 (CDN) and the Honda was close to $900 (CDN)). I did the math and figured that if the cheaper Lawnboy mower would last me 15 years I could live with mixing the oil and gas.

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#1598971 - 09/13/09 03:38 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: FRR]
greenaccord02 Offline


Registered: 04/22/07
Posts: 5215
Loc: Houston, Tx, USA
Hey, if ya'll are interested check ebay for a used one. There's some good quality rebuilt Mowers over there with the magnesium deck, 2T engine, even self-propelled if you want it for less than $200 shipped. It's a used mower, but think about that $200 in terms of value - it's a steal. I'm thinking about buying one unless I can find an old one to rebuild myself.

For that matter, there's also the Lawnboy 2T engines for sale alone. Naturally, they cost less than the whole thing. Depending on the model, I'm sure you could modify the bolt holes on a 'standard' aluminum or steel deck to accommodate mounting the engine. This is also something I'm considering, but if I'm going to do the lawnboy thing, I want to do it all the way.
_________________________
  1. '95 Dakota 3.9L - M1 0W-40 - MC FL1A
  2. '97 Accord F22-B1 - M1 5W-30 - Bosch 3312
  3. '99 Camry 1MZ-FE - PP 5W-30 - M1-209

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#1599077 - 09/13/09 06:12 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: greenaccord02]
Pete591 Offline


Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 931
Loc: Michigan
Remember These?

Toro...2-cycle Suzuki engines....commercials...

http://www.newhavenpower.com/Toro22031.html


This is what replaced it...it's a good mower...but not 2-cycle..
http://www.newhavenpower.com/Toro22175.html


Edited by Pete591 (09/13/09 06:14 PM)

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#1599161 - 09/13/09 07:12 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Pete591]
Best F100 Offline


Registered: 09/19/04
Posts: 370
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Pete591
Remember These?

Toro...2-cycle Suzuki engines....commercials...

http://www.newhavenpower.com/Toro22031.html


This is what replaced it...it's a good mower...but not 2-cycle..
http://www.newhavenpower.com/Toro22175.html



I'll let you guys in on a little secret. Now don't tell anyone, it's just us BITOG'ers here. If you REALLY want this Commercial, Suzuki powered, 2 cycle Toro mower, you can still buy one. There is a mower dealer in Midwest who does a tidy business reconditioning them. In fact, the reconditioning is so good, you would think it is a brand new mower - even down to the new bolts used. If you are not prepared to pay the $895 they are asking don't read any further.

This mower dealer is advertising a Commercial, 2 cycle Proline now for $895. In fact, they are also advertising a reconditioned, 4 cycle Kawasaki powered Toro Proline for the same $895.

The 2 cycle, Suzuki powered, Toro I bought was not the Proline, but the residential version, Toro model #20321 (with smaller gas tank). I paid $400 for mine three years ago. What a sweet mower! It does not sound at all like a loud, typical 4 cycle, mower, but more like a muffled, inboard boat engine. I have had people stop and ask me what is it, when I start it up. Very strong engine. When I cut my mom's yard, the grass and weeds are as tall as the wheels. The mower does not stall under these conditions like a 4 cycle mower would.

PM me for more information

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#1599199 - 09/13/09 07:43 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Pete591]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 6943
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: Pete591
Remember These?

Toro...2-cycle Suzuki engines....commercials...



Yep. Kinda mentioned those earlier in the thread whistle. For what ever reason, those Suzuki's didn't seem to last nearly as long as the high end Lawnboy 2-strokes (which ever they used). Prolly had to do with the mix ratio. That exact Suzuki 2-stroke is used on the smaller rubber paddled Toro snowthrowers, up to the early 2000's I believe. I've got a mid 1990's model.

Joel
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#1599264 - 09/13/09 08:57 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: JTK]
dwendt44 Offline


Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 3571
Loc: Central Wisconsin
IIRC, Honda had a 2 cycle lower level mower for a few years.
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#1601809 - 09/16/09 07:44 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Kruse]
Cmarti Offline


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 438
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Kruse
Originally Posted By: Nayov
So what's the advantage of a 2 cycle over a 4 cycle mower?


Advantage: Lots of torque and you never have to change your oil.
Disadvantage: They pollute the air more than a 4 cycle mower, hence they were taken off the market. (They seriously are a good mower though)


A properly tuned 2 cycle with synthetic oil mixes run well and have low emissions. There is a power to weight advantage for chainsaws
and string trimmers we have not matched with affordable 4 cycles or electric/battery power. I have a 20 year old Stihl string trimmer and some ancient lawn boys so they last forever. I can cut my steep banks without an expense of an oil pump in a push mower.

The problem may be the carbs and EPA defeating tools are beyond most consumers knowledge to make small 2 cycles run right. I would say they are trickier, but the carb on my duraforce is basically a plastic tube with a jet and govenor air vane. I think it is important to not store two cycle carbs with fuel in them. That may be where most headaches come from.

New clean air guidelines in 2010 will complicate things even more. You may want to buy a saw or trimmer now. The Gov't and/or better 4 cycle technology may send the 2 cycle the way of the dinasaur.

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#1601818 - 09/16/09 07:52 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: mrsilv04]
Cmarti Offline


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 438
Loc: Ohio
F100,

Not to steal the thread.....but my duraforce did not surge until I owned it 9 years, I cleaned the carb drilled jets, new governor,checked for air leaks and it came down to a new float for me. Hopefully I have it now. What a great engine, but lame carb. If you would, please direct me to any info on surging that is available.

Thanks

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#1602052 - 09/16/09 12:31 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Cmarti]
Best F100 Offline


Registered: 09/19/04
Posts: 370
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Cmarti
F100,

Not to steal the thread.....but my duraforce did not surge until I owned it 9 years, I cleaned the carb drilled jets, new governor,checked for air leaks and it came down to a new float for me. Hopefully I have it now. What a great engine, but lame carb. If you would, please direct me to any info on surging that is available.

Thanks





Most folks I know that own 6 1/2 HP Lawn Boys that surge either;

1) Rejet or drill the jets slightly larger (which you have done)
or
2) Replace the stock Pilot Jet with a R-Teck Pilot (Briggs part# 801308) if you don't want to drill.

If you goggle "Duraforce surging" or "Lawn Boy surging" you come up with some long threads of solutions that other people have come up with.

That float that you replaced is the other weak link of these type mowers. I installed an inline gas filter (to keep trash out of the carb) and an inline gas shut off valve. When you are done mowing, close off the gas shut off valve and run the mower until the carb bowl is out of fuel. That way, the cork float does not stay saturated with fuel during storage. Hope this makes sense. PM me if I can help further.

When these 2 cycle, Lawn Boy mowers are "right", they are the only 21" mowers I know of that can cut grass well over the wheel height. The 4 cycle, Briggs powered Toro Super Recycler I bought (used) couldn't do it without stalling. Now, I used to have an old Gravely L walk behind mower that could do it, but that was a much bigger and heavier mower. That was a real "man's mower" that would eat you alive if you got too close to those blades.

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#1606909 - 09/21/09 04:53 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Best F100]
Cmarti Offline


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 438
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Best F100
Originally Posted By: Cmarti
F100,

Not to steal the thread.....but my duraforce did not surge until I owned it 9 years, I cleaned the carb drilled jets, new governor,checked for air leaks and it came down to a new float for me. Hopefully I have it now. What a great engine, but lame carb. If you would, please direct me to any info on surging that is available.

Thanks





Most folks I know that own 6 1/2 HP Lawn Boys that surge either;

1) Rejet or drill the jets slightly larger (which you have done)
or
2) Replace the stock Pilot Jet with a R-Teck Pilot (Briggs part# 801308) if you don't want to drill.

If you goggle "Duraforce surging" or "Lawn Boy surging" you come up with some long threads of solutions that other people have come up with.

That float that you replaced is the other weak link of these type mowers. I installed an inline gas filter (to keep trash out of the carb) and an inline gas shut off valve. When you are done mowing, close off the gas shut off valve and run the mower until the carb bowl is out of fuel. That way, the cork float does not stay saturated with fuel during storage. Hope this makes sense. PM me if I can help further.

When these 2 cycle, Lawn Boy mowers are "right", they are the only 21" mowers I know of that can cut grass well over the wheel height. The 4 cycle, Briggs powered Toro Super Recycler I bought (used) couldn't do it without stalling. Now, I used to have an old Gravely L walk behind mower that could do it, but that was a much bigger and heavier mower. That was a real "man's mower" that would eat you alive if you got too close to those blades.


Thanks!

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#1733908 - 01/07/10 12:44 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Cmarti]
Andyge Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 204
Loc: Cologne MN
My Dad has a lawnboy that is about 50 years old now it was my grandmother's.

Andy

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#1837541 - 03/30/10 02:03 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Cmarti]
SOHCman Offline


Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 816
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Cmarti
F100,

Not to steal the thread.....but my duraforce did not surge until I owned it 9 years, I cleaned the carb drilled jets, new governor,checked for air leaks and it came down to a new float for me. Hopefully I have it now. What a great engine, but lame carb. If you would, please direct me to any info on surging that is available.

Thanks


I to have a 6.5 Duraforce, gem of a mower if it weren't for the surging! Well, I personally believe the problem to be the governor itself, not jeting or anything else as long as you keep up your maintenance and drain the fuel.

I found that I could get it to purr like a kitten by disabling the governor in favor of manual regulation: problem solved. yes the carb could be better, but the governor vane/spring/clickity wheel are what suck IMHO..

Bare in mind you want to use an external tach to set engine speed, or at least "ear" it to make sure you arent over running it. (the mower will fly across the yard at 30 MPH but be bad for the internals) :)

You can simply attach a stiff wire to the vane (like on the snow blower) and bend it to the appropriate RPM, or rig a connection between the vane and the choke slide where the governor spring used to poke into. That way you can still adjust the walk speed and choke as normal. A good afternoon project.

sohc
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#1837565 - 03/30/10 03:42 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: SOHCman]
Johnny Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 14013
Loc: Retired | Wausau, WI
I mow with my 1966 Lawn Boy push mower and I edge with my 1967 Lawn Boy Edger. Run both at 32:1 using the Lawn Boy oil. The mower has a magnesium deck. I have overhauled the mower engine once in its 44 years. Best homeowner mower ever made as for as I'm concerned.

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#1837575 - 03/30/10 04:30 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Johnny]
outoforder Offline


Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 326
Loc: Ohio
Someone mentioned that residential grade Lawnboy mowers were discontinued years ago. The home depot I work at currently sells three models of lawnboy walk behind mowers. Is there a difference between what Home Depot is selling and a "residential" mower?
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#1838224 - 03/30/10 03:21 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: outoforder]
Best F100 Offline


Registered: 09/19/04
Posts: 370
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: outoforder
Someone mentioned that residential grade Lawnboy mowers were discontinued years ago. The home depot I work at currently sells three models of lawnboy walk behind mowers. Is there a difference between what Home Depot is selling and a "residential" mower?







The ones you see now, today, in Home Depot are "only" 4 cycle mowers and only residential mowers (Toros with green paint on them). . The production of the 2 cycle Lawn Boys ended in 2004. In 2003, you could order both commercial and residential Lawn Boy 2 cycle versions. (I have one of each).

My 2003 residential version (Model # 10552) has on it: 6 1/2 HP engine, Aluminum no rust deck, Easy Stride (Personal Pace) transmission, electric start battery. (Roughly 80 lbs total - or light enough to "toss" in a the bed of a pickup truck).

My 2003 commercial version (Model #22261) is an upgraded landscaper mower with the same engine & deck + 3 speed Toro transmission + orange 1 gallon gas tank and bright orange steel wheels. I had my wheels modified, so that when the tread wears out, I replace only the tread and not the entire steel wheel. (Roughly 75 lbs - or light enough for your wife to pick up and replace what you had been picking up).
I have seen unused versions of this model selling for over $1200 on ebay.

As someone said earlier, the main benefit of the 2 cycle engines are simple design (1/3 less engine parts), gobbs of torque (the ability to cut through tall or thick grass without slowing down) + light weight.

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#1838435 - 03/30/10 06:05 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Best F100]
outoforder Offline


Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 326
Loc: Ohio
Thanks for the information.... I was at a road show today and the vendor kept hawking the fact that 4 cycle weed eaters put out more power then it's 2 cycle cousin but you mentioned in your post that 2 cycle engines have gobbs of torque. I always think of 4 cycles as being more heavy due to more engine parts. Please enlighten.
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#1838517 - 03/30/10 06:49 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Andyge]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
There are many 4 stroke advantages but I sure would like to have a 2 stroke lawnboy just for the cool factor when cutting the lawn.
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#1838525 - 03/30/10 06:52 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: outoforder]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
Originally Posted By: outoforder
Thanks for the information.... I was at a road show today and the vendor kept hawking the fact that 4 cycle weed eaters put out more power then it's 2 cycle cousin but you mentioned in your post that 2 cycle engines have gobbs of torque. I always think of 4 cycles as being more heavy due to more engine parts. Please enlighten.
What makes any type of engine heavy duty is the quality of the whole package and design . A cheap 2 cycle engine or a cheap 4 cycle engine is still cheap engine,I am talking quality od design not price.
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#1839196 - 03/31/10 08:38 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: outoforder]
boraticus Offline


Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 2533
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: outoforder
Thanks for the information.... I was at a road show today and the vendor kept hawking the fact that 4 cycle weed eaters put out more power then it's 2 cycle cousin but you mentioned in your post that 2 cycle engines have gobbs of torque. I always think of 4 cycles as being more heavy due to more engine parts. Please enlighten.


If engine displacement is equal, the two stroke engine will make considerably more power than a four cycle engine designed for the same purpose. The vendor obviously was "selling" four cycle engine equipment. Small, light weight machines equipped with a single cylinder two cycle engine will out-perform an equivalent four cycle engine in just about every aspect other than fuel consumption.

The reason is that it makes power on every down stroke vs. every second down stroke as a four stroke does. More power strokes mean more power and also more fuel consumption.

I own a twenty year old Echo lawn mower with a 140cc Suzuki two cycle engine on it. It is, without question, the best lawn mower I've owned. I'd rank it right up there with the two stroke Lawn Boys.

Speaking of Lawn Boys, several years ago my mechanically challenged neighbour bought a new Craftsman lawn mower and was "throwing out" his old two cycle Lawn Boy. I saw it down by the curb with the garbage and asked him what the problem was with the mower. He said that it just didn't make any power and didn't cut grass as well as when it was new. So I gladly took it off his hands. I brought it out to my camp and it sat around for a few months before getting around to taking a look at it. When I did check it out, the first thing I noticed was that he had a brand new blade on it installed upside down and backwards?? It was difficult to start but the air cleaner probably hadn't seen attention for twenty years. After cleaning it, the machine would fire up nicely and cut grass effortlessly.

As it was, my good neighbour at camp had his mower engine fail right around that time and couldn't afford a new mower so I gave the Lawn Boy to him. He passed away several years ago but his son now has it.

Don't know if we're talking the same era of Lawn Boy mowers but this machine had it's exhaust exit under the deck into a circular expansion chamber/muffler. I'd guess that machine would be probably around thirty years old.

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#1839407 - 03/31/10 11:31 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: boraticus]
OilNerd Offline


Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 1231
Loc: Plattsburgh, NY
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Speaking of Lawn Boys, several years ago my mechanically challenged neighbour bought a new Craftsman lawn mower and was "throwing out" his old two cycle Lawn Boy. I saw it down by the curb with the garbage and asked him what the problem was with the mower. He said that it just didn't make any power and didn't cut grass as well as when it was new. So I gladly took it off his hands.


I need a neighbor like yours!
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#1839441 - 03/31/10 11:57 AM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: OilNerd]
Tdbo Offline


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1539
Loc: Ohio
I have three Lawn Boy mowers. A 1979 Model that was my Grandmothers, a 1983 that I bought my Dad for his Birthday in 1983 (that replaced a 1967 model that needed some carburator work--it doubled as a mosquito fogger and he refused to overhaul it, and a 2003 that I went out and bought because they were discontinuing the 2 cycle. I can still put gas in the 1983 and start it in 2 pulls. The 1979 needs work, it was the family beater--used by my sister-in-law and cousin for years before failing to start. The 2 cycles are great engines, for me, it's one less thing to change the oil in. You get used to the start up smoke after awhile and the Craftsman 4 cycle that I had prior to the 2003 was sold to my cousin ( I hated the thing and still do. Used it all of four times before buying the 2003 Lawn Boy.)
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#1841694 - 04/01/10 08:22 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: wavinwayne]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
I know we're not discussing the 4-stroke LB's, but anyway....I love the looks of the LB push mowers that The Home Depot is now selling. If I had $400+ to blow on a new push mower, one of those shiny green LB's would be on my short list. Either that or a Honda.
I usually avoid Home Depot seems they have low quality merchandise but that may be me.
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#1845294 - 04/04/10 09:35 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: Steve S]
Papa Bear Offline


Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 5896
Loc: Leamington, ON, Canada ..... r...
Fired up my 1989 LawnBoy 4 1/2 hp mower this morning for the first time this year. It has a steel deck and is good as new, you just have to rinse it out periodiacally and it doesn't rust. I use 40:1 mix in the LawnBoy and the Homelite string trimmer.
Another real advantage of a 2 cycle mower is it's ability to mow on a grade (hill) and not starve for oil...
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#1846622 - 04/05/10 11:48 PM Re: New LawnBoy mowers with 2 cycle engines. [Re: greenaccord02]
BBDartCA Offline


Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 439
Loc: Washington State
The last generation Duraforce 2-stroke LB engines have a real bad surging problem. Carb is jetted real lean. The problem gets even worse with the E10 ethanol gas we get nowawdays. I forget the specifics on the jet sizes, but if you a get pilot jet from the Toro snow thrower that will do the trick to fatten it up on the bottom end. I think the jet part number is 81-1030.
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