Subaru Oil Pump Specs as Relates to Filter Bypass

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Originally Posted By: SilverGGA
Anyone tested whether the black Toyo Roki filter met 23psi bypass?
Yes I have. It is in the mid to high 18psi range when the valve begins to open. The Honeywell is dead on in the high 22s to mid 23s (I used 2 different filters with 2-3 trials on each and the average was 23.5psi). This confirms that the Tokyo Roki, did in fact, not meet Subaru specs and hence the change to the Honeywell....just wish they would have made them do a non-cardboard endcap.

What I will say about the Honeywell Subaru filter is it has much more pleats and what seems to be better sealing ABDV-to-cartridge and BV-to-cartridge junctions relative to an Orange Fram. Suffice it to say, I will be using the OEM one until my warranty runs out. I have contacted Wix, Bosch/Purolator, and Champion Labs with this concern. Hopefully if enough Subie owners voice this concern, they may have a new one for us in a few years.

I would use the Purolator XX14460 if it would fit my car though...it has the right bypass spec, but no ADBV, which at this point, I don't care about since it has next to no point on a vertical filter that is located as low as Subaru filters are located.
 
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I don't care about since it has next to no point on a vertical filter that is located as low as Subaru filters are located.


I don't agree with this. A filter, as it impacts the circuit, is like a switchback or zig-zag line at a concession stand. It doesn't matter where in the "line" it's placed for the ultimate distance the oil has to travel (other than to it). The lower the filter the quicker the filter will be re-enveloped by the pump, but no difference in time to full engine envelopment should occur. What will happen to a filter without a ADBV that is very low relative to gallery level will be that it sees more back flow before breaking the siphon back to the sump.
 
If the filter is high relative to the sump, then siphoning is the biggest enemy. If the filter is low relative to the pump, the head above filter outlet is the enemy, in either case, the goal of the oil is to attain the lowest energy state which is in the sump. In an ideal world that ADBV would prevent this such that the totality of the oil passages would be completely full of oil all the time...even after the engine was stopped for hours, days, weeks. However, in practice it is shown that ADBVs do NOT do this. After a matter of hours, oil is getting past the ADBV and flowing OUT of the inlet (the circumferential holes in the filter that the ADBV rests on in a non-flowing state), back into the sump (whether the siphon from a high filter or the gravity of the oil column above a low filter is the driving force).
 
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In a vertical orientation ..the higher the filter ... the less fluid (above it) needs to back flow to cavitate the center well. A few oz maybe. The lower the filter the higher the volume of fluid above it that must back flow through the filter by letting air relieve the siphon. Once the centerwell is exposed (it may create a vacuum before breaking the siphon) and air is common to both sides of the media ..there's nothing to flow.
 
That's right. Either way, the top of the oil column will seek sump level no matter where the filter is in the chain. Pressure above + vacuum below = the same delta P.
Until the oil level reaches a short distance down the center well and the remaining oil is trapped in the filter by self breaking the siphon effect.
Air from above the filter will not allow the filter to empty further, even if there were no ADBV.
 
I absolutely did not insinuate that siphon below or pressure above can empty the filter completely of oil. Of course when things have drained to the point of (approximately) the top of the filter (on the outlet side), everything will hit a static equilibrium with the filter itself being full of oil (whether clean or dirty, it doesn't matter).

I think the last couple posts have completely missed the point.....WHY IS IT DRAINING PERIOD! If the ADBV did it's defined job, the siphon on the inlet side of the filter would clamp the ADBV shut and/or the head/pressure on the outlet side of the filter would push on the ADBV to secure it in place. And in this state, the oil should hypothetically stay 100% still....no draining into the sump (except for the small amount of oil between the sump and the filter inlet holes...just before the ADBV)...the 'column' of oil after the filter outlet should stay 100% full of OIL, not air. That is not case as we are finding....and this means at cold cranking it is taking a few revolutions to refill the oil passages. I'm really not concerned about this at all. My whole point in reference to ADBVs is that they don't (in all cases) perform the job that they are designed to perform to the utmost degree.
 
The last couple of posts are in response to you asserting that no ADBV is required since it sits so low. I assert that it is MORE essential due to the column of oil above it.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The last couple of posts are in response to you asserting that no ADBV is required since it sits so low. I assert that it is MORE essential due to the column of oil above it.
But the ADBV doesn't hold the column of oil above it is my point to why an ADBV is not required.
 
Originally Posted By: 09rexwagon
If the ADBV did it's defined job, the siphon on the inlet side of the filter would clamp the ADBV shut[...]My whole point in reference to ADBVs is that they don't (in all cases) perform the job that they are designed to perform to the utmost degree.

Sorry if I misunderstood you. I guess I should read more carefully. Yes, you are right, ADBVs are maybe 50% in reliabilty from my experience. I try to by the filters that seal air when I blow into the center hole. But neither is the seal between the threads on the nipple to the filter baseplate. Some oil may leak by there directly into the supply tube from the pump--depending on how long it sits.
 
Originally Posted By: 09rexwagon
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The last couple of posts are in response to you asserting that no ADBV is required since it sits so low. I assert that it is MORE essential due to the column of oil above it.
But the ADBV doesn't hold the column of oil above it is my point to why an ADBV is not required.


It's not required to HOLD a column of oil above it. It's supposed to SLOW/DELAY the mass backflushing event. The spec on ADBV's are to hold for "so long" ..or rather to take so long to drain ..pass xx amount of liquid ..whatever.

That is their primary purpose. That's why they're there. As I said, some manufacturers have found benefit in upgrading to silicon to limit this.
 
My 2010 Subaru Legacy Limited with the 3.6R engine came with a black Tokyo Roki filter. I ordered a spare oil filter of the same part number (also the manual's part number) and it, too, was a black Tokyo Roki oil filter of identical style and appearance. It weighs just a bit more, dry, than the crossed Purolator PureOne oil filter, also in dry, pre-use condition. I draw no great conclusions from any of this, other than that Subaru still uses some Tokyo Roki oil filters.
 
marvinlee: where did you order the replacement oil filter and what is the part number?

I think a lot of Subaru owners would like to know.

Originally Posted By: marvinlee
My 2010 Subaru Legacy Limited with the 3.6R engine came with a black Tokyo Roki filter. I ordered a spare oil filter of the same part number (also the manual's part number) and it, too, was a black Tokyo Roki oil filter of identical style and appearance. It weighs just a bit more, dry, than the crossed Purolator PureOne oil filter, also in dry, pre-use condition. I draw no great conclusions from any of this, other than that Subaru still uses some Tokyo Roki oil filters.
 
Originally Posted By: marvinlee
My 2010 Subaru Legacy Limited with the 3.6R engine came with a black Tokyo Roki filter. I ordered a spare oil filter of the same part number (also the manual's part number) and it, too, was a black Tokyo Roki oil filter of identical style and appearance. It weighs just a bit more, dry, than the crossed Purolator PureOne oil filter, also in dry, pre-use condition. I draw no great conclusions from any of this, other than that Subaru still uses some Tokyo Roki oil filters.


The blue Honeywell filters are for H4 Subaru engines only. The H6 oil filter OEM is a Tokyo Roki.
 
Originally Posted By: Soobs
Originally Posted By: marvinlee
My 2010 Subaru Legacy Limited with the 3.6R engine came with a black Tokyo Roki filter. I ordered a spare oil filter of the same part number (also the manual's part number) and it, too, was a black Tokyo Roki oil filter of identical style and appearance. It weighs just a bit more, dry, than the crossed Purolator PureOne oil filter, also in dry, pre-use condition. I draw no great conclusions from any of this, other than that Subaru still uses some Tokyo Roki oil filters.


The blue Honeywell filters are for H4 Subaru engines only. The H6 oil filter OEM is a Tokyo Roki.


Is the H6 Tokyo Roki something that can be used on the H4?
 
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: Soobs
Originally Posted By: marvinlee
My 2010 Subaru Legacy Limited with the 3.6R engine came with a black Tokyo Roki filter. I ordered a spare oil filter of the same part number (also the manual's part number) and it, too, was a black Tokyo Roki oil filter of identical style and appearance. It weighs just a bit more, dry, than the crossed Purolator PureOne oil filter, also in dry, pre-use condition. I draw no great conclusions from any of this, other than that Subaru still uses some Tokyo Roki oil filters.


The blue Honeywell filters are for H4 Subaru engines only. The H6 oil filter OEM is a Tokyo Roki.


Is the H6 Tokyo Roki something that can be used on the H4?


I really can't say for sure. I know it doesn't fit on the H4 Turbo due to clearance issues, but in the past you could put it on the H4 NA. The H6 filter also has the correct pressure relief of 23PSI.

You could call a dealership and find out if it works on the H4. (I think it does, but find out before you do it.)

The Honeywell filter really does a fine job though. Check out this UOA: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1857613#Post1857613
He uses the same setup as me. OEM air and oil filters with Chevron Supreme 5w30.
 
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: Soobs
Originally Posted By: marvinlee
My 2010 Subaru Legacy Limited with the 3.6R engine came with a black Tokyo Roki filter. I ordered a spare oil filter of the same part number (also the manual's part number) and it, too, was a black Tokyo Roki oil filter of identical style and appearance. It weighs just a bit more, dry, than the crossed Purolator PureOne oil filter, also in dry, pre-use condition. I draw no great conclusions from any of this, other than that Subaru still uses some Tokyo Roki oil filters.


The blue Honeywell filters are for H4 Subaru engines only. The H6 oil filter OEM is a Tokyo Roki.


Is the H6 Tokyo Roki something that can be used on the H4?

I know you already saw this, but this is for others to see:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1855050&page=3

short answer is no, you don't want to put the H6 filter in the 4 cyl
 
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