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#1522882 - 07/06/09 02:57 PM Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline!
Ibrahim Offline


Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 336
Loc: Wellington County, Ontario.
As per the chart on the Amsoil's website under 0W-30 product page...it shows that Mobil 1 "Extended Performance" causes most metallic wear scar, even more than regular dino 5W-30 Havoline?

http://www.amsoil.com/graphs/sso_4ball_400px.gif

http://ww w.amsoil.com/graphs/sso_4ball_400px.gif

Surprisingly it does not have Valvoline SynPower nor Castrol Edge listed? I wonder why?

Mobil 1 EP is the most advanced oil from Mobil to date, if that is causing so much wear, I wonder what should we make of other regular Mobil 1 and Mobil non-synthetic products?

Amsoil can not certainly be lying on ineternational scale from their "the main" website, they will get in big trouble for that, so what should we make out of this?

Please comment!
_________________________
Edge or EP & M1 Euro or ESP & RL + RL D4 (Tranny & PS) + Amsoil (Dot3/4 & 75W-110) + Donaldson or Bosch Oil & AFE Air Filter + NGK = ~WINNING FORMULA~

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#1522886 - 07/06/09 03:01 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: Ibrahim]
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 35582
Loc: Pottstown, PA
We're subscribing to Castrol's "90% of all wear occurs at start up" marketing standards for integrity.
_________________________
http://lube-direct.com/gallan/

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#1522888 - 07/06/09 03:02 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: Ibrahim]
Bryanccfshr Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 5216
Loc: Farmington New Mexico
The dreaded 4ball test is one of Amsoils marketing schemes. THey make a great product but it seems that they are reluctant to let the 4 ball test go.
_________________________
Best quote I have seen this month.
"At least I dont street race in a Yaris"

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#1522890 - 07/06/09 03:05 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: Bryanccfshr]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 1847
Loc: MS
Haven't they come out with more recent test results. Not that I care about 4-ball test results for motor oil anyway.
_________________________
1999 Mustang GT 4.6 4V - Redline 5W-30, Chevron MD3, Redline 75W-90
2001 F150 Crew 4.6 2V - PP 5W-30, M1 Mercon V, Redline 75W-140, Redline D4 (PS)

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#1522891 - 07/06/09 03:06 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: Bryanccfshr]
Ibrahim Offline


Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 336
Loc: Wellington County, Ontario.
Is 4-Ball Test fair to judge an oil's performace when it comes to measuring metallic wearing in an engine?

can this be used to say, yes Mobil 1 EP will certainly/highly likely to cause more wear than so and so oil because this was the result from the 4-Ball test?

can this be said!
_________________________
Edge or EP & M1 Euro or ESP & RL + RL D4 (Tranny & PS) + Amsoil (Dot3/4 & 75W-110) + Donaldson or Bosch Oil & AFE Air Filter + NGK = ~WINNING FORMULA~

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#1522895 - 07/06/09 03:07 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: Bryanccfshr]
JoeFromPA Offline


Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 552
Loc: PA
According to that test, after one hour of operation Mobil One produced a wear scar greater than 1mm and even AMSOIL produced a wear scar of over .4mm. If that was an accurate indication of how those oils would perform in your engine, don't you think you wouldn't have any engine left after about 1000 hours of operation?

Joe
_________________________
06 Civic SI - PP 5w30 in there now for a 10k run.

08 5-speed Legacy GT - 3750 mile OCIs. Experimenting with M1 15w50, RTS 5w40, PP 5w30, and GC 0w30

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#1522909 - 07/06/09 03:19 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: JoeFromPA]
bepperb Online   confused


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 1612
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
I guess it all depends on how many four-ball-joints, four-ball-bearings and four-ball-roller-rocker-cam-slider-retainers you have in your engine.

None of my cars have any of those, so I'm pretty willing to ignore this test.

IMO, it's no better or worse than any other oil marketing. It's all pretty worthless. The best marketing is rebates, at least around here.
_________________________
2004 Highlander 2.4l 2AZFE
2006 Accord 2.4l K24A8
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#1522915 - 07/06/09 03:29 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: JoeFromPA]
Loobed Offline


Registered: 07/20/07
Posts: 807
Loc: Northern California, USA


the 4 ball test has a very small contact patch where oil can lubricate. I can't think of any place in my engine that has that small of a contact patch between metals. The only thing that comes close is the needle bearings in the rocker arms. the problem with the 4 ball is that only one ball rotates; the other 3 are fixed. They should come up with a needle bearing test with a short cycle

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#1522936 - 07/06/09 03:50 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: Loobed]
RF Overlord Offline


Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 864
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
In addition to the test itself not being relevant, you have to consider the source. I don't mean to bash AMSOIL at all, they make good products, but why would you listen to their advice about OTHER oils? If you were buying a lawn tractor, would you listen to John Deere's advice about Toro?
_________________________
'03 Mercury Marauder - Trilogy Motorsports #61
-and another "not quite stock" one for my DD.
PP 5W-30 / MC FL820S in both.

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#1522957 - 07/06/09 04:16 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: RF Overlord]
peterdes Offline


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 316
Loc: jupiter, florida
Is the 4-ball test the same as the Timken Load Bearing test?
_________________________
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#1522960 - 07/06/09 04:19 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: Ibrahim]
Tom NJ Offline


Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 620
Loc: New Jersey
The 4-Ball Wear machine is an excellent tool for developing a lubricant for the 4-Ball Wear machine.

Tom NJ

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#1522961 - 07/06/09 04:20 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: Tom NJ]
Tempest Offline


Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 6216
Loc: Las Vegas NV
 Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
The 4-Ball Wear machine is an excellent tool for developing a lubricant for the 4-Ball Wear machine.

Tom NJ


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#1522968 - 07/06/09 04:27 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: RF Overlord]
ccs v2.0 Offline


Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 526
Loc: IL
 Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
In addition to the test itself not being relevant, you have to consider the source. I don't mean to bash AMSOIL at all, they make good products, but why would you listen to their advice about OTHER oils? If you were buying a lawn tractor, would you listen to John Deere's advice about Toro?

The "source" is not AMSOIL. Try ASTM.

http://www.astm.org/Standards/D4172.htm
_________________________
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#1523010 - 07/06/09 05:07 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: peterdes]
crazycrak Offline


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 307
Loc: Abingdon VA
seems like the only way you could use this info for a engine is if you had oil pumping out of the area were the metal came in contact such as how and rod bearing and crank do delivering constant oil flow that way the oil film is never sheared or broken allowing metal to metal contact

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#1523119 - 07/06/09 06:51 PM Re: Can U Beleive THIS? MOBIL EP Worst Than Havoline! [Re: crazycrak]
buster Online   content


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 20888
Loc: NJ
Engine Oil Performance Testing

"I have seen a number of lubricant manufacturers refer to the 4-ball wear scar test as an indicator of how well the oil will protect an engine. Other larger companies tend to brush off the results of this test indicating that it isn't representative of actual engine conditions adding that because it is cheap to run, the results aren't worth much. What are your thoughts on this?"

The 4-ball test (ASTM D4172) is often used as a screening test for many different lubricant types that contain antiwear additives or similar base oil properties. Other tribo-mechanical bench tests are often used as well, including the Timken Test (ASTM D2782) and the Pin and V-Block (ASTM D2670). Because engines have different contact geometry, loads, metallurgy and speeds, numerous bench tests and test protocols are needed. It is not uncommon for several oils to be tested using two such methods and to find that the performance rankings between the oils to reverse (no correlation). This is why, among other reasons, Passenger Car Motor Oils and Heavy Duty Oils (diesel crankcase) are tested in actual engines using controlled methods such as ASTM D5533 Sequence IIIE and D5302 Sequence VE.

Jim Fitch, Noria Corporation

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