BMW 330CI - Red Line 5w-40 - 5100 miles

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: buster
My bad, you are right the Tbn is 10+ for the 5w40.


Dave at redline said last week that the TBN of 5w40 is 8.4 My recent VOA from Blackstone was 11.0 I don't know if it is different testing methods or what but if you ask redline they will say 8.4 so perhaps you were right on the money.

 

[shanneba]

Back from my trip, oil changed with Red Line 5w-40 again. Total of 7786 miles on the sample with 1/2 quart of make up oil from the sample taken here. I'll mail it off to Blackstone this week.

 

[sprintman]

Try the new Redline 0W40, better cold flow can't do any harm.

 

[shanneba]

I'll stick with the 5w-40, cold flow matters little here in Houston. I like the higher HTHS and lower volitility of the 5w-40. Besides I just bought two cases of 5w-40, that should last a year or year and a half.

 

[sprintman]

Apologies missed the Houston bit.

 

[saaber1]

I also like the old formulations of redline compared to the 0WX formulations, although I haven't actually tried those new ones. I assume the 0WX has more VIs, etc. and like Shanneba said the volatility of the old formulations is really low.

I'm toying with the idea of using 10W30 in my vw 2.0 FSI engine, which destroys oils. My thinking is that it is a straight 30 weight with no VIs and a 3.8 HTHS which is still higher than most vw 502 oils. I would do this as an experiment to see how low I can go to get mpg benefits and still have better than 502 protection. The best redline to use for wear in my car I would bet would be the 10W40.

So far, running 5W40 in my fuel diluting turbo car, my viscosity losses have been:

13% drop - 60% city
19% drop - 90% city, in the winter, numerous 1 to 2 mile short trips

For comparison, Syntec 5W40 average drop is over 20%, with a high of 26% (averages for multiple units)

I would guess Biosyn did very well also but I don't have the starting viscosity so I don't know what the drop was. GC's drops have been low also, with an average of 14%.

Here are the specs for reference and just for fun a graph of the redline's ppm Fe compared to the other UOAs (redline shown in red)

 

[saaber1]

Note that Shanneba's drop in Kv100 was 7.5% and 1.3% or about 4% on average, which is really low.

 

[Leo]

Is it just me or does that Moly reading look a bit low for RL?

 

[shanneba]

The second UOA from the right is also Red Line 5w-40 with 3 ppm moly. The new formula of Red Line 5w-40 does not have moly, check out the last VOA I posted last fall. The 1/2 quart of makeup oil was an older formula that still had the load of moly. Likely two quarts of the 7 I used in the oil change also were the older formula with moly.

5 quarts at zero plus two quarts at about 700 = 1400 / 7 = 200ppm moly.

 

[shanneba]

Oil temps for my engine, in April at ambient of 72 F, I took an hour drive. The starting oil temp was 92 F, after 12 minutes it was at 201.
The max during the trip was 222. It was mostly highway miles with the cruise set to 65 - 70.

Oil temp data is from my OBDII software, the oil temp sensor is at the back of the head. My sump temp is normally about -20F from this temp.
The data below is a small part of the data, one data point per minute. There are about 700 more data points each minute in the full sample.

The first 15 minutes would be like my normal drive to work.
Code:


Time Engine Vehicle Coolant Temp Coolant Temp Ignition Timing Injection Oil Temp

Speed Speed Engine Radiator Outlet Duration Engine



07:24:31.625 0 0 91 86 7.7 0 92

07:25:00.343 930 0 94 86 -11.1 7.28 92

07:26:00.015 797 5 120 86 -2.1 4.27 95

07:27:00.031 729 0 144 86 3 4.51 105

07:28:00.000 2345 58 164 86 24.8 8.26 119

07:29:00.000 2180 58 184 86 28.4 4.98 138

07:30:00.015 1784 51 191 87 28.7 1.9 155

07:31:00.109 1830 50 194 90 26.8 4.24 166

07:32:00.046 1897 51 195 101 28.7 3.72 175

07:33:00.343 2178 42 194 109 22.5 8.06 179

07:34:00.171 1720 47 195 117 27.6 2.76 188

07:35:00.000 1738 47 198 118 26.8 3.94 192

07:36:00.031 1697 47 198 118 26.4 3.78 196

07:37:00.031 1737 47 196 124 26.8 3.77 201

07:38:00.000 1629 41 198 122 22.1 6.14 204

07:39:00.312 1905 53 196 129 28.7 3.8 205

07:40:00.281 1910 52 198 125 25.6 5.04 206

07:41:00.437 2745 59 190 175 7.3 10.97 209

07:41:00.484 2745 59 190 175 7.3 10.97 209

07:42:00.421 2309 65 183 157 26.8 6.76 211

07:43:00.000 1923 52 195 124 29.1 3.8 211

07:44:00.015 1922 50 196 126 28.4 4.06 211

07:45:00.000 1245 39 198 126 -12.7 1.57 212

07:46:00.015 1850 52 198 136 25.6 4.73 212

07:47:00.125 2006 55 194 137 29.5 4.01 214

07:48:00.359 1869 55 196 130 28 1.47 214

07:49:00.406 1640 39 195 124 22.5 5.29 214

07:50:00.015 1496 30 195 156 25.2 2.66 212

07:51:00.000 755 0 199 149 13.9 3.96 211

07:52:00.000 1778 48 194 152 28 2.82 216

07:53:00.000 2117 58 186 168 29.9 3.9 216

07:54:00.000 2094 58 195 124 28.4 4.76 214

07:55:00.328 2270 65 188 156 29.5 4.3 216

07:56:00.375 2029 55 195 128 27.6 4.58 216

07:57:00.000 2285 63 196 137 29.1 4.61 216

07:58:00.031 2312 64 195 138 29.5 4.21 216

07:59:00.015 2326 64 195 144 28 5.77 218

08:00:00.359 2426 69 195 140 17.4 11.03 218

08:01:00.343 2515 71 183 164 28.7 5.74 218

08:02:00.281 2236 67 191 136 -4.5 1 216

08:03:00.015 966 24 196 117 2.6 2.13 212

08:04:00.203 696 0 202 125 5.7 3.51 211

08:05:00.125 2593 74 183 180 31.9 4 218

08:06:00.296 2593 74 192 136 29.5 5.14 216

08:07:00.015 2539 72 198 134 29.5 4.54 218

08:08:00.156 2549 72 196 134 29.5 4.74 218

08:09:00.203 2534 72 196 133 31.9 1.84 218

08:10:00.140 2524 72 196 134 29.5 4.61 219

08:11:00.312 2548 73 196 133 29.5 4.81 218

08:12:00.015 2454 71 198 138 31.5 1.68 219

08:13:00.031 2445 70 198 138 22.1 7.1 219

08:14:00.000 2465 71 198 137 32.7 2.45 219

08:15:00.437 1673 44 195 128 26.8 3.55 218

08:16:00.015 2483 71 183 182 -2.1 1 218

08:17:00.359 705 0 182 157 4.5 3.53 214

08:18:00.031 701 0 200 138 4.1 3.62 212

08:19:00.296 703 0 203 151 4.5 3.62 212

08:20:00.343 2542 72 191 190 29.9 4.51 218

08:21:00.000 2464 70 184 164 26.4 5.99 218

08:22:00.078 2121 58 195 125 28.4 4.53 216

08:23:00.359 2132 59 198 133 29.9 4.06 216

08:24:00.218 2137 59 198 140 28.7 4.23 218

08:25:00.015 2541 73 186 173 21.7 6.32 218

08:26:00.015 2544 73 195 136 28.4 5.38 218

08:27:00.031 2554 73 196 136 26 6.16 219

08:28:00.093 2546 73 198 141 29.1 4.68 219

08:29:00.437 2517 71 196 138 29.5 4.54 219

08:30:00.015 2532 72 198 140 30.3 4.34 222

08:31:00.265 2194 63 198 136 28 5.02 219

08:32:00.000 702 0 202 141 4.1 3.61 216

08:33:00.015 1975 17 202 173 24.8 4.35 218

08:34:00.203 721 0 204 169 3.7 2.6 218

08:34:20.687 698 0 204 167 5.3 2.62 218

 

[jaj]

Your trending looks excellent.

What's really interesting is that your copper level jumps if you run the oil longer than six months. The copper "spikes" correlate to OCI's that longer in time, not miles.

Here's what I see, from the most recent going backwards:

8 months - 17 ppm Cu (RL)
1 month - 5 ppm Cu (RL)
6 months - 9 ppm Cu (GC)
9 months - 15 ppm Cu (GC)

Or am I reading your dates wrong? The copper was consistently higher up to about 45k miles, then it dropped, except when the OC is longer than six months.

 

[jaj]

Your OBD oil/water temp data certainly have that myth-busting capability!

So, when you're stopped, the coolant gets hotter and the oil gets cooler. When you're cruising at 70, the water cools down and the oil heats up.

So much for all those "you need a great motor oil to handle the heat of sitting in traffic" commercials. Good coolant for sure, bu the oil's just laughing...

 

[sprintman]

Nothing seems to bother RL 5W40.

 

[shanneba]

aj,

Thanks for the look at my data, the longer time OCIs would also be the ones with more short trips.

The car has a computer controlled thermostat. Normally under a low load it will keep the water temp at about 200 F, if I increase the load by accelerating and hitting about 3000+ rpm, it seems to try to cool the water temp down to the 180 range. As soon as the load decreases it seems to let the water temp creep back up to the 200F range.

The additional data in the complete file shows that I stopped for a few seconds at 7:40:46. the water temp was at 200, I accelerated and hit about 3150 rpms with a water temp of 194, at 7:40:54 I was back to 2992 rpm and the water temp had dropped to 191. It continued to drop to 180 at 7:41:50 even though the rpms went back down to about 2350. Then it started back up and was at 196 again at 7:46:23 with the rpms from 2300 - 1900.

The oil temp stayed at 211 from 7:41:08 - 7:44:24.

At the April autoX, while idling between runs, the sump temp hit about 215, that would be about 235 oil temp on the OBDII readings.