Rotella Syn 5W-40, 3651 miles, 05 Subaru Legacy GT

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted By: getbent
Here is another UOA from some Rotella-T Synthetic 5W40 CJ-4 this time:

Looks nearly identical to the CI-4+ as far as wear and shear stability are concerned.

Next up Mobil 1 TDT 5W40 (in about 3500 more miles).


Rarely do you see a consecutive UOA SOOO consistent.

That being said, the only real difference between the two formulations is.....a MASSIVE drop in calcium???? A bit of boron and moly?

Nice flashpoint BTW; you definitely have fuel in that oil, to depress your previous resultant flashpoint so much.

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: JoeFromPA
Originally Posted By: getbent
Here is another UOA from some Rotella-T Synthetic 5W40 CJ-4 this time:

Looks nearly identical to the CI-4+ as far as wear and shear stability are concerned.

Next up Mobil 1 TDT 5W40 (in about 3500 more miles).


Rarely do you see a consecutive UOA SOOO consistent.

That being said, the only real difference between the two formulations is.....a MASSIVE drop in calcium???? A bit of boron and moly?

Nice flashpoint BTW; you definitely have fuel in that oil, to depress your previous resultant flashpoint so much.



They added a boatload of magnesium to offset the calcium.

 

[JoeFromPA]

I totaly missed that, oops.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: JoeFromPA
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
This is a turbo. Subaru ..with their fine screen in line filter for the turbo, limits OCI's to 3750.


Gary - I've studied this a bit and I don't think that statement (often made) is accurate. Subaru DID cut their recommended OCI for dino oil to 3750 miles on their turbo units. IMHO, it's because 7500 miles was destroying dinos.

However, in a post-warranty model like this I don't see any reason to limit the OCIs when running synthetic. If the oil is holding up, and there's no little debris/sludge in the system, then whether you run a 3750 mile OCI or 10000 mile OCI, the screen is going to pick-up the same stuff and get clogged, or not.

Just my .02

Joe


I tend to agree ..with minor exceptions ..but.. I just don't make recommendations to the contrary. I'd do it myself. In reality I'd be yanking that screen or punching holes in it. The last thing anyone needs is an OEM protection measure destroying the component that it's designed to protect.

This is not a wise installation from my end user view.

 

[JoeFromPA]

Agreed; and what's worse (to me) is that the screen doesn't appear to be necessary. It can be removed without any known shortening of the life of the turbo.

I'll be yanking mine out sometime in the future....I want to be doing extended oil runs on this puppy once I'm out of waranty.

Joe

 

[HondaRD]

I know the screen filter in the oil feed line to the turbo housing has been the subject of debate for a long time but would it be wrong to assume the screen filters serve a purpose that justifies their existence, even with their potential to clog if oil is not changed often enough?

I think such a small company like Subaru would have removed the screens to save mfg costs if it were better than the alternative. What is that alternative? I don't know. Maybe if the screen was not there perhaps something catastrophic could happen?

Maybe given the turbo location in the engine bay, Subaru engineers worry what might happen if a large piece of insoluable material were to enter the turbo bearing path as they spin past 10,000 rpm? Any history of exploding turbos sending tiny ball bearings everywhere? Just a guess

 

[JoeFromPA]

Ironically Honda, no. Some of these turbos have no screen before them, others have a screen. Almost all LGTs have such a screen stock (i think all, but some have reported finding no screen stock).

There should be a screen after the turbo. Unfortunately, many people have turbos blow and then lots of subsequent engine/turbo problems from remaining debris and not enough flushing.

 

[getbent]

Here's the next UOA, 3500 miles on Mobil 1 TDT 5w40 CJ-4:

Looks very similar in formula to the Rotella 5w-40 CJ-4, but the Rotella has just a little bit more of all the ingredients, is cheaper and seems to shear less as far as I can tell.

 

[09rexwagon]

Originally Posted By: HondaRD
Insolubles caught my eye because I've noticed with other Subaru UOAs from this engine, insoluables always show up as 0.2~0.3% regardless of oil filter, OCI, or oil brand. I've been paying attention to insolubles, especially with anyone that posts a UOA with a long OCI. I haven't noticed users of the OEM filter with the 23psi bypass pressure spec have lower insoluble numbers compared to PureOne users for example.

I hope to post a UOA of PP 5w30 with >4k miles soon using a PureOne filter. Maybe I'll use a WIX the next time around and sample that as well just to see what a range of filter bypass pressure specs actually reveal (if anything) on a UOA.

I'd really like to see more of these:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1361791#Post1361791

If I can get these numbers with a 8k OCI, then I'm sold on Rotella!
I'd be interested in seeing this. I have many PL14610s and I'd like to use them if we can get some quantitative proof that the 14-18 bypass setting is fine on our engines....yes I'll admit I got caught up in the bypass setting ordeal as it relates to aftermarket oil filters. So I bought a 12pk of OEMs...if I can use my stock of PL14610s I'd be happy .

 

[bluesubie]

getbent - Looks like you dropped into 30 grade territory in 3,500 miles. Nice wear although a short OCI, IMO.

-Dennis

 

[JoeFromPA]

09rexwagon -

I've been running PL14610 for at least 20-25k in my 08 Legacy GT. One UOA under the best, everything looks great.

My upcoming UOA (~1-2 months) will be an interesting test, since I'm running 15w50 and thereby will be putting more pressure on the bypas more often.

Joe

 

[09rexwagon]

Originally Posted By: JoeFromPA
09rexwagon -

I've been running PL14610 for at least 20-25k in my 08 Legacy GT. One UOA under the best, everything looks great.

My upcoming UOA (~1-2 months) will be an interesting test, since I'm running 15w50 and thereby will be putting more pressure on the bypas more often.

Joe
Sounds good. Have you done prior UOAs on it while running the pl14610? I'm going from PYB 5w30 to PP 5w30 at the next OC (3k total miles on the ODO). I'll probably run it from then on unless I see some consumption which seems to be very hit or miss with the turbo 2.5Ls. If it is consuming, I'll probably go to RTS 5w40.

 

[07spec]

Looks good, I am also pretty much sold on Rotella in my '07 Legacy SpecB as well.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Who cares if he needs a 40 Wt. The results are great and this oil is cheaper then all other Synthetic Brands at Walamrt except the Walmart brand.This is why I love RTS 5W40 it just works great all the time in everything you put it in. Bang for the buck it is almost imposable to beat this oil for the price unless you live in a state that allows you to get rebates at the register on your oil!This stuff used to be $12 a galllon which made it a real great deal now that it is only a $1-$2 a gallon cheaper then the rest it is still a good deal but not the killer deal it used to be. I dare say that any $10 a quart oil like Redline,Amsoil,RP etc... would not be able to produce wear numbers any better then this and they would all cost a lot more! Hard to beat a decent GIII base stock loaded with old school ZDDP!

 

[Jaymus]

^Agree 100% from every RTS UOA I've seen. It's really surprised me. Seems to be one of the best oil available, and if you factor in pricing, it is the best oil available.

 

[chevrofreak]

It's not cheaper at Walmart than most synthetic brands. RTS is $19 per gallon, or $4.75 per quart.

Mobil 1 5 quart jugs (except the EP) are $22, or $4.40 per quart

Valvoline Synpower, $22.50 or $4.50

Pennzoil Platinum, $20, or $4.00

Quaker State Torque power, $18, or $3.60



In fact, the only oils at Walmart that are more expensive are Castrol Edge, and Mobil 1 Extended Performance.

 

[09rexwagon]

Just to add a bit of info to the oil screen conversation that was going on before:

Every turbo 4 with AVCS (at least) prior to a given VIN in 2005 had 4 screens. Two on the AVCS input banjos and two on the block output banjos.

Due to the fact that the AVCS input banjo screens are at a point where the oil is flowing into the banjo, there were issues with the screen sliding into the block somewhat and breaking and impeding oil flow. In 05 Subaru stopped putting them in the AVCS banjos and told dealers to remove them from WRXes that had idle problems that were prior to the 05 cutoff VIN.

After that they all still contained the 2 screens on the block output banjos (one is right near the turbo either on the back of the block below the compressor inlet or on top of the block in that same general area for the 08/09s and the second is behind the driver side rear portion of the timing belt cover).

To remove the turbo feed banjo bolt usually requires removing the TMIC at bare minimum and usually people will remove either the uppipe or the turbo (on 08/09s it is on the top and all you have to remove is the intake manifold). The driver side block feed banjo is only accessible if you remove the driver side timing belt cover, the timing belt, the two driverside cam sprockets, and the rear part of the timing belt cover....yep that's a boatload of work to get to it.

Anyway the bulk of issues have been on the one that feeds the turbo compared to the driver side banjo screen. So removing it and cleaning it every 30k miles is probably wise (or replacing it...the banjo bolt, screen and two copper washers is like 7 dollars). Though there have been people on NASIOC who have removed it to clean after 40-50k miles only to see it is completely clean. Seems hit or miss. I'll probably do the driver side one when I do a timing belt change.