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#1423355 - 04/02/09 09:51 PM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: flatlandtacoma]
Kruse Offline


Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 3016
Loc: Kansas
 Originally Posted By: flatlandtacoma
I remember 15-20 years ago in Illinois the Casey's chain sold 89 octane (E10) for 2-3% less than 87 octane straight gasoline.


Here in Kansas, they still do. Today their 89 octane (10% alcohol) was $1.99. Their 87 octane was $2.10. Is it good gas? Who knows. Any additives? Who knows.
I buy my gas at BP or Shell, where their 87 octane is the cheapest priced and they probably have the least amount of alcohol of any local chain.
P.S. BP recently added 93 octane. It's about the only gas my '71 Cougar can gulp without complaining.

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#1423359 - 04/02/09 10:01 PM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: Kruse]
flatlandtacoma Offline


Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 1022
Loc: Illinois
Ok, 5% less now. If your fuel economy doesn't drop by 5% then it's a good deal.
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#1423386 - 04/02/09 10:43 PM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: oilyriser]
MNgopher Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2903
Loc: Lakeville, MN
 Originally Posted By: oilyriser
Ethanol damages rubber parts in small engines, most of which aren't really built to take it.


And yet, in parts of the Country like Minnesota, where E10 has been state law year around since the late '90s, and was in the gasoline in winter gas much earlier than that, there are plenty of us who have been running E10 in these engines for years with no major effects. I will state that older small engines may have the seal and gasket issues, but frankly if small engine makers haven't figured out by now that E10 gas is everywhere, that is plain dumb. All the small engines I have bought in recent years allow the use of E10, and recommend keeping the gas supply as fresh as possible. Easy enough to do, and frankly is still sound advice even with non E10 gasoline.

Again, I don't dispute issues with older equipment, but anything newer had better be compatible.

I am not an ethanol supporter for many reasons, but the garbage spewed out on the supposed effects of this fuel continue to amuse me...

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#1423399 - 04/02/09 11:07 PM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: MNgopher]
cp3 Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2549
Loc: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
I don't have a problem with E10. I just happen to be running a few tanks of non-ethanol gas in my cars right now because I want to see what, if any mileage differences I see. If not for that I wouldn't have been able to tell you who sells it and who doesn't other than Sunoco, which I've been using for years.

Around here Shell pump stickers state that V-Power is 0% ethanol.
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#1423539 - 04/03/09 07:25 AM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: cp3]
paul246 Offline


Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 379
Loc: Canada
An aviation official stated in a recent seminar that it has been discovered that aircraft using MOGAS (auto fuel) may experience ethanol separation if the aircraft are stored over the winter. He stated that the ethanol cannot be re-combined and could cause erratic combustion until the old fuel is burned off. So, if you don't get the best performance out of your brought out of storage collector car, this could be why.

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#1423545 - 04/03/09 07:34 AM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: cp3]
NHHEMI Offline


Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 5112
Loc: NH
Most any newer car will be mechanically fine on E10( use caution running it in old cars as the ethanol will dissolve crud in the gas tank and can lead to major issues ). My issue with it, in regards to auto use, is the loss of MPG. Only our government would mandate blending ethanol with the gas, which is PROVEN to reduce MPG, during a fuel crisis/shortage. Only in America. Now they are talking upping that to 15 or 20%. Just nuts.

I do have issues with it mechanically however for use in small engines, boats, ATV's, etc... In these uses you have MAJOR problems with it if you let the fuel sit. In a car you are going through it fairly quick but in small engine uses it is not uncommon for the fuel to sit for 3-4 months between uses or longer. The ethanol separates from the gas pretty quick which is not good. Ethanol is a moisture magnet as well and will draw moisture in after it seperates very rapidly which is very bad once you try and use it.

Also when allowed to sit for extended periods it starts to grow this funky red algea like stuff. If you don't drain the fuel system/gas tank on your boat, ATV, lawn mower, etc... when you plan on letting it sit for extended periods of time without special fuel treatments it can play havoc with your fuel system and gas tank.

When using any ethanol based fuel in a small engine that does not see regular use/regular refueling you need to use a fuel enzyme such as Startron. Otherwise you WILL have mechanical issues eventually.

Here is some info from them on it. Good stuff and a lot of it relates to cars as well...

http://mystarbrite.com/startron//content/view/118/219/lang,en/

http://mystarbrite.com/startron/images/stories/catalog/startron_ethanol101.pdf

http://mystarbrite.com/startron//content/view/14/37/lang,en/

Watch the bottom right video( guy holding glass jar/bottle up ):
http://mystarbrite.com/startron//content/view/82/112/lang,en/


Edited by NHHEMI (04/03/09 07:36 AM)
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#1423547 - 04/03/09 07:35 AM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: NHHEMI]
Nickdfresh Offline


Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 3234
Loc: Buffalo, NY
If anything, I would use ethanol to make a gradual transition on the car's fuel system to insure there is no problem down the road...

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#1423574 - 04/03/09 08:04 AM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: Nickdfresh]
D189379 Offline


Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 1267
Loc: Canada City, Canada
Ethanol is a waste of time, a waste of money, and increases your vehicles polution. Lets hope the government keeps artificially proping up this industry. sigh...

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#1423587 - 04/03/09 08:13 AM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: D189379]
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 6596
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
By calulating the heat differencesof ethnoal and gasoline the drop in fuel mileage should be 4.3% and not the 10-20% numbers some folks are reporting. While I don't know the impact on the food supply, it does help the oil comsumption issue and helps keep the fuel system cleaner and "frost free"
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#1423690 - 04/03/09 09:27 AM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: Eddie]
benjamming Offline


Registered: 01/03/04
Posts: 5665
Loc: northern Alabama
I would think that lubricity wouldn't be as good with ethanol "enhanced" fuels.

Eddie,

I assume that your 4.3% figure is based upon E10?

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#1423701 - 04/03/09 09:44 AM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: 04SE]
chaser06 Offline


Registered: 11/18/07
Posts: 114
Loc: Wisconsin
 Originally Posted By: 04SE
 Originally Posted By: sciphi
I am not the only one to notice a 5-10% drop in fuel economy when running gas with 10% ethanol in it.

There's more, but it's not for this board.


Ditto.


Me too. Ethanol is a scam.
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#1423708 - 04/03/09 09:55 AM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: benjamming]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 20748
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: benjamming
I would think that lubricity wouldn't be as good with ethanol "enhanced" fuels.



Good point. I would be sure to add TCW3 or MMO to the gas to help with the lost lubricity.
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#1423770 - 04/03/09 11:09 AM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: demarpaint]
hal Offline


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 368
Loc: NC
About 1/4 the gas stations here sell E10 in all octane levels, some sell it in 90 and 93, but not 87. many do not claim to sell E10 at all. there is even one station that advertizes on the sign out front "No Ethanol sold here, only 100% pure gas." That's exactly what it reads. there are a lot of farms in the more rural areas here too, yet i don't think any of them are farming switchgrass. i care about the increased cost of food more than the slight decrease in gas mileage.

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#1423875 - 04/03/09 12:56 PM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: hal]
Jaymus Offline


Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1245
Loc: Tennessee
They decreased mpg by 4%-10% in ethanol, yet made cars use 5W-20 to get that extra .1% in MPG.

Who the [censored] makes these decisions. Oh, money hungry [censored].
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#1423943 - 04/03/09 02:13 PM Re: Gas station is hiding their E10 stickers [Re: Jaymus]
jennings Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 48
Loc: US
My Subaru GT milage dropped at least 10% on e10. Seems to run rougher, also.

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