Subaru Honeywell vs FRAM Orange Can of Death

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I could've sworn I've read on here about another manufacturer spec'ing every other OCI filter changes.

I think someone said Honda in another thread.
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Originally Posted By: RWEST
Quote:
I could've sworn I've read on here about another manufacturer spec'ing every other OCI filter changes.

I think someone said Honda in another thread.
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Honda definitely does (at least on a lot of their cars) but I thought I remembered an additional manufacturer, too.
 
I'm so glad I stocked up on the Toyo Roki manufactured Subaru oil filters (15208AA100)...I think I have something like 12 of them in my 'stash'.
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Originally Posted By: rationull
Originally Posted By: RWEST
Quote:
I could've sworn I've read on here about another manufacturer spec'ing every other OCI filter changes.

I think someone said Honda in another thread.
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Honda definitely does (at least on a lot of their cars) but I thought I remembered an additional manufacturer, too.


I don't know if they do NOW ..but most GM's have had this for decades. If you used time ..it was every OCI. If you used mileage ..it was every other. Under the maximum mileage standard the engine can't be producing much of the stuff that loads or degrades filters.
 
So does GM still spec every other for vehicles with the OLM? The Honda spec is as follows:

- Oil changes by Maintenance Minder, or every year if the MM does not go off. Oil change is part of service A and B in the MM.
- Oil filter change is only included as part of MM service B.

Therefore if your driving patterns cause the MM not to go off in one year, then by following the recommendations you'd be leaving the oil filter on for 2 years!

EDIT: Just noticed you said you don't know if GM still does that -- but maybe somebody else does?
 
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Source of the below is post 183 here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1623020&page=8

It kind of sounds like PR blather some management person gave a customer rep to send out in response to an inquiry. It doesn't sound very engineering specific; mainly generalities.

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presumably from an "insider".

"Per your request, I have same[?] information which differentiates the new Subaru/Honeywell Oil Filter (made in Canada) p/n: 15208AA12A from various aftermarket competitors:

1) The new Oil Filter (made in Canada) p/n: 15208AA12A is the OEM line installed filter for all 2.5L and 2.5L turbo engines built at Subaru Indiana Automotive. In order to pass Subaru's rigorous test requirements, the new filter's filtration performance and test specifications were designed so that they far exceeded any aftermarket "one-size-fits-all" filter.

2) The filter's pleated media has variable density paper. The variable density improves the filter's ability to trap contaminants. The variable density paper is more expensive than common aftermarket filter paper.

3) The filter's Relief Valve feature allows oil to flow to the engine even if the filter is clogged. The value's torque setting was tuned by Subaru and Honeywell specifically for Subaru engines.

4) The filter's Anti-Drainback Valve is made of silicone. The silicone material is used for optimum performance and sealing to prevent oil from draining out of filter when engine is shut off. In general, aftermarket filters use lesser materials.

5) The filter's external gasket is a molded P-Ring seal design. The P-Ring design provides superior sealing for solid contact between the filter and engine. Many aftermarket filters use a common lathe cut(non-molded/less expensive) gasket for sealing.

I hope this abbreviated explanation clearly shows that the new Subaru Oil Filter is far superior in overall design and materials to lesser aftermarket products."
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Originally Posted By: LoneRanger

3) The filter's Relief Valve feature allows oil to flow to the engine even if the filter is clogged. The value's torque setting was tuned by Subaru and Honeywell specifically for Subaru engines.


Something is not quite right with the statement above. It was probably meant to say:

"The value's torque valve's pressure setting was tuned by Subaru and Honeywell specifically for Subaru engines."
 
It doesn't have a silicone ADBV. It's nitrile just like the FRAM. The filter media is identical too. I just weighted the filter elements and they are within 0.1 gram of each other, so no higher density filter media either. The info from the NAISOC post is pretty much pure marketing bull puckey.

To my eyes the new Subaru filter is a bottom line FRAM with a questionable seal.

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
How do you know its nitrile and not silicone? How can this be proven?


I'd think the silicone rubber is usually reddish in color, and the nitrile black in color. At least that's how I've seen it on all the filters I've seen ... but I guess that doesn't mean silicone could be black.
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Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
How do you know its nitrile and not silicone? How can this be proven?


I'd think the silicone rubber is usually reddish in color, and the nitrile black in color. At least that's how I've seen it on all the filters I've seen ... but I guess that doesn't mean silicone could be black.
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Silicone can be black and nitrile can be orange. I'm surprised Fram hasn't changed their nitrile that to match their cans.
 
Originally Posted By: XS650
Silicone can be black and nitrile can be orange. I'm surprised Fram hasn't changed their nitrile that to match their cans.



Guess that leaves it to "trust the manufature's spec" on what it's made of.
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
How do you know its nitrile and not silicone? How can this be proven?


I'd think the silicone rubber is usually reddish in color, and the nitrile black in color. At least that's how I've seen it on all the filters I've seen ... but I guess that doesn't mean silicone could be black.
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Silicon is usually softer and more pliable, especially when it's cold. And silicon ADBVs are usually pinkish orange in color.
 
I ran the ADBV from both the FRAM and Subaru through XRF. No Si peak in either. Si was confirmed in a known silicon rubber sample.

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
One is blue and one is orange and neither is a can of death.

The 20 or so used one's in my garage i cut open johnny that look like [censored] tells ME other wise. compared to the other WIX,AC,M1,etc,etc, they suck!
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
I ran the ADBV from both the FRAM and Subaru through XRF. No Si peak in either. Si was confirmed in a known silicon rubber sample.

Ed



What colors were the ADBVs on the Fram and the Subraru filters you tested?
 
OK. So while both silicone and nitrile can apparently be made orange or black, do we have any instances where we know of a black silicone ADBV or an orange nitrile one?
 
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Originally Posted By: edhackett
I ran the ADBV from both the FRAM and Subaru through XRF. No Si peak in either. Si was confirmed in a known silicon rubber sample.

Ed


Well that is a conclusive analysis then. The Subaru blue is just a standard FRAM with a stiffer bypass valve spring. Jesus, the Fram Toughgard or Extended Guard at least have a silicone ADBV, you wouldthink that would be spec'dby Subaru for their OEM filters being built by Honeywell. I can't beleive Subaru is recommending 7500 mile drain intervals for the non-turbo engines using these [censored] filters.

Man, my ideal filter for my Subaru would be a Wix with a 23psi bypass valve. But no such animal. All the Wix's are 8 - 11psi.

Purolator 14460 is 20 - 25psi bypass but has no ADBV and it is quite a bit larger than OE size, although it was OE spec'd for Subaru 2.5 up until 2005 I think.
 
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