http://www.turbodieselregister.com/TDR57_Oil.pdf
This is a great comparison or heavy duty oils if you have never seen it...
This is a great comparison or heavy duty oils if you have never seen it...
EXCELLENT COMPARISON SITE...SURPRISING
- Thread starter lucerne06
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I would think the Amsoil oils would do better than shown.
Notice that the least favorite oils were all CJ-4.
Stacked, opinion based piece talked about often here last year or so.
The conclusion is the guy likes to hear himself talk.
Plus he left off Amsoil 15W-40, but chose AFL 5W-40 euro oil (not a HDEO) and DEO 5W-40 CJ-4
The conclusion is the guy likes to hear himself talk.
Plus he left off Amsoil 15W-40, but chose AFL 5W-40 euro oil (not a HDEO) and DEO 5W-40 CJ-4
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Stacked, opinion based piece talked about often here last year or so.
The conclusion is the guy likes to hear himself talk.
Plus he left off Amsoil 15W-40, but chose AFL 5W-40 euro oil (not a HDEO) and DEO 5W-40 CJ-4
There is the reply I was waiting to see.
Stacked, opinion based piece talked about often here last year or so.
The conclusion is the guy likes to hear himself talk.
Plus he left off Amsoil 15W-40, but chose AFL 5W-40 euro oil (not a HDEO) and DEO 5W-40 CJ-4
There is the reply I was waiting to see.
Well, really read the paper. How did he "evaluate" the oils?
Quote:
In a blind-sampling-from-the-bottle test done by Trailer Life
magazine in January 2005, I was greatly disappointed to see that
Wal-Mart Super Tech 15W40 diesel oil stood toe-to-toe with other
very respected brand names.
Why disappointment? First, consider what John Martin said in
Issue 54, “Consequently there is less and less difference between
engine oil that barely passes the API certifi cation test and one that
is designed to pass by a signifi cant margin. Therefore, oils meeting
a given performance spec (example API CI-4+) are approaching
commodity status.”
Quote:
Before we start, I need to explain something about my interpretation
of the oil analysis. I can only analyze how I think each oil will
perform based on its additive composition because none of these
properties helps analyze base stocks.
Quote:
Finally, don’t fall for the statement that synthetics can be costjustifi
ed because they can be used for twice the normal oil change
interval. This is simply no longer true. The additive package,
particularly detergent, dispersant, and antioxidant levels, is the
primary determinant of oil change interval. Also consider that
extending oil change intervals is a gamble. You can monitor used
oil data to determine if suffi cient additive is present to continue,
but one of the main reasons to change oil is to get contaminants
(soot, sludge, etc.) out of your engine. Some contaminants, such
as glycol, can cause a lot of damage in a short time.
He fails to mention you can "boost" an oil's ability in these areas to allow extended drain intervals, in a well tuned engine. In fact, Lubrizol helps make extended drain oils.
In a blind-sampling-from-the-bottle test done by Trailer Life
magazine in January 2005, I was greatly disappointed to see that
Wal-Mart Super Tech 15W40 diesel oil stood toe-to-toe with other
very respected brand names.
Why disappointment? First, consider what John Martin said in
Issue 54, “Consequently there is less and less difference between
engine oil that barely passes the API certifi cation test and one that
is designed to pass by a signifi cant margin. Therefore, oils meeting
a given performance spec (example API CI-4+) are approaching
commodity status.”
Quote:
Before we start, I need to explain something about my interpretation
of the oil analysis. I can only analyze how I think each oil will
perform based on its additive composition because none of these
properties helps analyze base stocks.
Quote:
Finally, don’t fall for the statement that synthetics can be costjustifi
ed because they can be used for twice the normal oil change
interval. This is simply no longer true. The additive package,
particularly detergent, dispersant, and antioxidant levels, is the
primary determinant of oil change interval. Also consider that
extending oil change intervals is a gamble. You can monitor used
oil data to determine if suffi cient additive is present to continue,
but one of the main reasons to change oil is to get contaminants
(soot, sludge, etc.) out of your engine. Some contaminants, such
as glycol, can cause a lot of damage in a short time.
He fails to mention you can "boost" an oil's ability in these areas to allow extended drain intervals, in a well tuned engine. In fact, Lubrizol helps make extended drain oils.
I read that a while back, it's just an uninformed opinion to me and nothing more. Bad thing is, that people on that site (amongst others) read that and take it for truth, then spread the "truth" to others on said forums....
A shame, really.
A shame, really.
Yep nice way to spread the false Gospel.......
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Well, really read the paper. How did he "evaluate" the oils?
I wasn't disagreeing with what you wrote. I was truly waiting to see what you thought.
Well, really read the paper. How did he "evaluate" the oils?
I wasn't disagreeing with what you wrote. I was truly waiting to see what you thought.
Originally Posted By: D-Roc
I read that a while back, it's just an uninformed opinion to me and nothing more. Bad thing is, that people on that site (amongst others) read that and take it for truth, then spread the "truth" to others on said forums....
A shame, really.
Sadly that happens to many things on this forum. One person says something and many people take it as the "truth".
I read that a while back, it's just an uninformed opinion to me and nothing more. Bad thing is, that people on that site (amongst others) read that and take it for truth, then spread the "truth" to others on said forums....
A shame, really.
Sadly that happens to many things on this forum. One person says something and many people take it as the "truth".
Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Well, really read the paper. How did he "evaluate" the oils?
I wasn't disagreeing with what you wrote. I was truly waiting to see what you thought.
Sorry me brain dead. My (only) head cold of this long winter is coming on....I'm not dead yet. Only wishing.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Well, really read the paper. How did he "evaluate" the oils?
I wasn't disagreeing with what you wrote. I was truly waiting to see what you thought.
Sorry me brain dead. My (only) head cold of this long winter is coming on....I'm not dead yet. Only wishing.
The guy's article is about half good base knowledge and about half B.S.
Is CJ-4 oil actually inferior in any way? Show me the science. Show me the test results, not guesswork based on the amount of certain additive compounds. Show me how these additives in these quantities work together or fail to work together.
Here are the tests required to pass CJ-4:
http://www.apicj-4.org/performance_specs.html
Here are the tests required to pass CI-4 & CI-4+. These are all real world tests on real test engines using lab measurements.
http://www.infineum.com/information/api-heavyduty-ci4-2004.html
Show me how the results in CJ-4 testing is inferior to CI-4 results.
Also:
Quote:
Today I would avoid any oil which utilized Group I (and preferably Group II) base stocks. Today’s engines need better oils than that! Group III and Group IV base stocks give the kind of performance (Group III mineral oil and Group IV synthetic) you need in your truck. Group V stocks aren’t really needed here unless you have money to burn.
Well, duh. You won't find Group III (generally accepted as synthetic) base stock in any 15W-40 oil. You will find Group II or Group II+, which the guy ignores. Group III and Group IV (PAO) base stocks are the synthetic base stocks which he said are generally a waste of money.
Quote:
Finally, don’t fall for the statement that synthetics can be cost justified because they can be used for twice the normal oil change interval. This is simply no longer true. The additive package, particularly detergent, dispersant, and antioxidant levels, is the primary determinant of oil change interval. Also consider that extending oil change intervals is a gamble. You can monitor used oil data to determine if suffi cient additive is present to continue, but one of the main reasons to change oil is to get contaminants (soot, sludge, etc.) out of your engine. Some contaminants, such as glycol, can cause a lot of damage in a short time.
The remaining levels of additives available to work in the engine is one major determinant of the remaining life of the oil. As he states, there are better (costlier) additive packages available to the oil blender which provide longer oil life. Another is the level of oxidation. Better base stocks have longer life before they oxidize, and there are better (costlier) base stocks within a Group number which live longer. Sludge is mainly a result of either oxidation or contamination from coolant, etc. If the oil is contaminated with coolant, fuel, or any other foreign material, the oil must always be changed immediately and the source of the contamination found and fixed--this has exactly zero relationship with the life of uncontaminated oil.
Is CJ-4 oil actually inferior in any way? Show me the science. Show me the test results, not guesswork based on the amount of certain additive compounds. Show me how these additives in these quantities work together or fail to work together.
Here are the tests required to pass CJ-4:
http://www.apicj-4.org/performance_specs.html
Here are the tests required to pass CI-4 & CI-4+. These are all real world tests on real test engines using lab measurements.
http://www.infineum.com/information/api-heavyduty-ci4-2004.html
Show me how the results in CJ-4 testing is inferior to CI-4 results.
Also:
Quote:
Today I would avoid any oil which utilized Group I (and preferably Group II) base stocks. Today’s engines need better oils than that! Group III and Group IV base stocks give the kind of performance (Group III mineral oil and Group IV synthetic) you need in your truck. Group V stocks aren’t really needed here unless you have money to burn.
Well, duh. You won't find Group III (generally accepted as synthetic) base stock in any 15W-40 oil. You will find Group II or Group II+, which the guy ignores. Group III and Group IV (PAO) base stocks are the synthetic base stocks which he said are generally a waste of money.
Quote:
Finally, don’t fall for the statement that synthetics can be cost justified because they can be used for twice the normal oil change interval. This is simply no longer true. The additive package, particularly detergent, dispersant, and antioxidant levels, is the primary determinant of oil change interval. Also consider that extending oil change intervals is a gamble. You can monitor used oil data to determine if suffi cient additive is present to continue, but one of the main reasons to change oil is to get contaminants (soot, sludge, etc.) out of your engine. Some contaminants, such as glycol, can cause a lot of damage in a short time.
The remaining levels of additives available to work in the engine is one major determinant of the remaining life of the oil. As he states, there are better (costlier) additive packages available to the oil blender which provide longer oil life. Another is the level of oxidation. Better base stocks have longer life before they oxidize, and there are better (costlier) base stocks within a Group number which live longer. Sludge is mainly a result of either oxidation or contamination from coolant, etc. If the oil is contaminated with coolant, fuel, or any other foreign material, the oil must always be changed immediately and the source of the contamination found and fixed--this has exactly zero relationship with the life of uncontaminated oil.
I am a member there and I remember being kinda excited when I first received that issue, then after reading that article I remember thinking the same thing as Pablo.
Originally Posted By: D-Roc
I think the many UOA's on CJ4 oils within the past couple of years is comparison enough.
I agree, sort of like reality is not matching his picks, per se or rather his ranking.
I think the many UOA's on CJ4 oils within the past couple of years is comparison enough.
I agree, sort of like reality is not matching his picks, per se or rather his ranking.
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