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#1390409 - 03/02/09 03:05 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: NHHEMI]
12oreo Offline


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4
Loc: virginia
 Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
 Originally Posted By: OilGuy
Royal Purple is known for claiming specs that they don't have validation for as well (you can't "meet or exceed" the spec if you don't take all the tests) - don't know if this sits well with you or not.


Many oil mfg's do that. It is not something only RP does. Both regular name brand oil companies do it as do the boutique oil companies as well. Even when an oil is certified to meet a standard don't take it as set in stone that it does. Castrol GTX was pulled from the GM6094M list for a few months because random testing showed it no longer passed after being certified. Mobil 1 apparantly wasn't meeting the API service level spec's it claimed to be certified to meet. So, what does certified really mean? Certainly it does not mean that the oil you buy will be the same as the oil that was tested.

It is VERY expensive to submit and be tested for every oil standard out there. You don't have to be tested to know if an oil meets or exceeds a test however. Many times because the tests that make up the oil standard are regular oil industry tests already done. All you need to know is what the oil standard requirements are and compare them to the results of testing already done on the oil in question. Royal Purple in this instance.

3 excellent examples of oil standards that are easy to check using standard oil industry test results would be GM6094M, GM4718M, and Chrysler MS6395. There is no reason RP can not claim meets and/or exceeds these standards even though they never submitted for testing. Same for Amsoil, Schaeffers, or Redline as well I have no doubt. If you have a copy of the oil standard you can get the results from testing already done on the oil you are after and see if it does meet/exceed the standard. Certainly an oil company, with any brains, is not going to say it does if it does not.

OE certified means nothing other than the oil company paid the car mfg to be officially tested against the oil standard. It certainly does not make it a better oil than a non tested oil. Cheap conventional oils can be on the GM6094M certified list but does that mean RP, Amsoil, Redline, etc... can not meet/exceed that standard or that the cheap conventional oil is a better oil because it was certified? No, of course not. It saves consumers time if they don't have the ability to look up the standard themselves and find out if an oil meets or exceeds it. Doesn't make the oil better.

To the original poster who started this thread with the question - IMO RP is a better oil than Mobil 1 but if the price difference is significant than the M1 will be fine. Either one is a good choice.

-------------------------------------------------------
So, when an oil company manufactures a lot or batch of motor oil they don't have test data to back up the certifications listed on the container?

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#1390745 - 03/02/09 09:09 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: 12oreo]
wannafbody Offline


Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 893
Loc: PA
German Castrol is another good choice.
_________________________
2000 TA WS6

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#1390785 - 03/02/09 09:32 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: wannafbody]
Billy007 Offline


Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 962
Loc: midwest
Use Mobil 1 with confidence. What I like about Mobil 1 is the ease to find their Specifications and Approvals for any oil they sell. Your engine will live a long life if you choose either product. But if Mobil 1 is cheaper, go with Mobil 1.

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 has the following builder approvals:
BMW Longlife 04
Mercedes Benz MB-Approval 229.31/229.51
Volkswagen (Gasoline / Diesel) 504.00 / 507.00
Peugeot Citroen Automobiles E06-N3 / D06-N3



Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
SAE Grade 5W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40C 72.8
cSt @ 100C 12.1
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 164
Sulphated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 0.6
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150C, ASTM D4683 3.58
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92 254
Density @ 15C, kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.850

http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.asp

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#1391448 - 03/03/09 12:35 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: Billy007]
manus Offline


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Milano,Italy
 Originally Posted By: Billy007
Use Mobil 1 with confidence. What I like about Mobil 1 is the ease to find their Specifications and Approvals for any oil they sell. Your engine will live a long life if you choose either product. But if Mobil 1 is cheaper, go with Mobil 1.

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 has the following builder approvals:
BMW Longlife 04
Mercedes Benz MB-Approval 229.31/229.51
Volkswagen (Gasoline / Diesel) 504.00 / 507.00
Peugeot Citroen Automobiles E06-N3 / D06-N3



Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
SAE Grade 5W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40C 72.8
cSt @ 100C 12.1
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 164
Sulphated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 0.6
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150C, ASTM D4683 3.58
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92 254
Density @ 15C, kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.850

http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.asp


Eheh ok ok, you convinced me, take Mobil 1!
I saw the characteristics of Royal Purple, the viscosity is lower at the Mobil 1.
ROYAL PURPLE 5w30:
Viscosity:
cSt @ 40 c 65.3
cSt @ 100 c 10.6
Viscosity Index 152
Flash point 227c


Edited by manus (03/03/09 12:40 PM)
_________________________
Ford Focus 1.6 16v 03',M1 esp formula 5w30.

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#1391715 - 03/03/09 03:30 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: Billy007]
Mark888 Offline


Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 1084
Loc: Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: Billy007
Use Mobil 1 with confidence. What I like about Mobil 1 is the ease to find their Specifications and Approvals for any oil they sell. Your engine will live a long life if you choose either product. But if Mobil 1 is cheaper, go with Mobil 1.

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 has the following builder approvals:
BMW Longlife 04
Mercedes Benz MB-Approval 229.31/229.51
Volkswagen (Gasoline / Diesel) 504.00 / 507.00
Peugeot Citroen Automobiles E06-N3 / D06-N3



Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
SAE Grade 5W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40C 72.8
cSt @ 100C 12.1
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 164
Sulphated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 0.6
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150C, ASTM D4683 3.58
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92 254
Density @ 15C, kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.850

http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.asp

Those are the UK specs for Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 which is different than the US Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 according to the US website:

Specifications and Approvals

Mobil 1 Extended Performance meets or exceeds the following industry specifications:
5W-30
ILSAC GF-4
API SM,SL,SJ,SH/CF
ACEA A1,B1,A5,B5

Typical Properties

Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-30

Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40 C 61
cSt @ 100 C 11.0
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 169
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.0
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150C ASTM D 4683 3.1
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97 -48
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92 230
Density @15 C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.86

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Extended_Performance.asp

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#1391748 - 03/03/09 03:59 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: Mark888]
manus Offline


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Milano,Italy
 Originally Posted By: Mark888
 Originally Posted By: Billy007
Use Mobil 1 with confidence. What I like about Mobil 1 is the ease to find their Specifications and Approvals for any oil they sell. Your engine will live a long life if you choose either product. But if Mobil 1 is cheaper, go with Mobil 1.

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 has the following builder approvals:
BMW Longlife 04
Mercedes Benz MB-Approval 229.31/229.51
Volkswagen (Gasoline / Diesel) 504.00 / 507.00
Peugeot Citroen Automobiles E06-N3 / D06-N3



Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
SAE Grade 5W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40C 72.8
cSt @ 100C 12.1
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 164
Sulphated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 0.6
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150C, ASTM D4683 3.58
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92 254
Density @ 15C, kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.850

http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.asp

Those are the UK specs for Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 which is different than the US Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 according to the US website:

Specifications and Approvals

Mobil 1 Extended Performance meets or exceeds the following industry specifications:
5W-30
ILSAC GF-4
API SM,SL,SJ,SH/CF
ACEA A1,B1,A5,B5

Typical Properties

Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-30

Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40 C 61
cSt @ 100 C 11.0
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 169
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.0
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150C ASTM D 4683 3.1
Pour Point, C, ASTM D 97 -48
Flash Point, C, ASTM D 92 230
Density @15 C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.86

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Extended_Performance.asp

Then the viscosity for the American market is lowest?
For Europe has always, however, these specifications
API SM, SL, SJ, SH / CF
ACEA A1, B1, A5, B5


Edited by manus (03/03/09 04:02 PM)
_________________________
Ford Focus 1.6 16v 03',M1 esp formula 5w30.

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#1391861 - 03/03/09 05:58 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: manus]
Mark888 Offline


Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 1084
Loc: Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: manus
Then the viscosity for the American market is lowest?
For Europe has always, however, these specifications
API SM, SL, SJ, SH / CF
ACEA A1, B1, A5, B5

Mobil 1 ESP and Mobil 1 EP are two different products. The ESP product is much more expensive than EP and I believe it only comes in liter bottles (not quarts) becasue it is normally for outside the USA.

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#1392803 - 03/04/09 02:57 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: Mark888]
manus Offline


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Milano,Italy
 Originally Posted By: Mark888
 Originally Posted By: manus
Then the viscosity for the American market is lowest?
For Europe has always, however, these specifications
API SM, SL, SJ, SH / CF
ACEA A1, B1, A5, B5

Mobil 1 ESP and Mobil 1 EP are two different products. The ESP product is much more expensive than EP and I believe it only comes in liter bottles (not quarts) becasue it is normally for outside the USA.

Here in Italy the Mobil 1 ESP is in packs of 1 liter or 4 liters, which costs less.
I did not know the difference in ESP and EP eheh now I understand.


Edited by manus (03/04/09 02:57 PM)
_________________________
Ford Focus 1.6 16v 03',M1 esp formula 5w30.

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#1392822 - 03/04/09 03:23 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: manus]
Mark888 Offline


Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 1084
Loc: Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: manus
Here in Italy the Mobil 1 ESP is in packs of 1 liter or 4 liters, which costs less.
I did not know the difference in ESP and EP eheh now I understand.

I found one company that had some Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP for sale in the USA. I don't know where they got it, but it was packaged by the liter (not the quart), which is very unusual for the USA market. It is specifically formulated for the latest VW TDI specification. They were selling it at about USD $8.45 per liter (not including shipping), which they claimed was a discount from the normal price by about 50%. Shipping for a case of 12 is about $15-20 based on distance from Indiana.
http://www.avlube.com/mo1espfo5wvw.html

According to Mobil 1 USA website, Mobil 1 ESP 5W-40 is not available at retail outlets in the USA, but can be purchased at Mercedes Benz dealers.

Based on the specs of the ESP, it looks like it probably uses 100% PAO stock (or close to it) not including any additives. It is my understanding from reading the Mobil 1 website, that the neither regular Mobil 1 or EP as sold in the US are 100% PAO, but they both have some PAO stock in them.

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#1393161 - 03/04/09 08:34 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: Mark888]
buickmaster Offline


Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 142
Loc: Cleveland, OH
m1 esp is available through chrysler dealers in the us exclusively per the m1 site.
_________________________
1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR4 - 2.0L 4G63T/4WD/4WS (me)
196k mi - M1 0W40/5W50 Mix

2012 Kia Forte - 2.0L Theta II (wife)
2500 mi - OEM

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#1393488 - 03/05/09 05:24 AM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: buickmaster]
Leo Offline


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 910
Loc: Australia
Thought this was interesting. Penrite are stating that they do not send most of their oils in for API testing, but claim they will pass.

http://www.penrite.com.au/files/Z5EW8N8EXB/113%20PENRITE%20OIL%20RATINGS.pdf

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#1393864 - 03/05/09 12:20 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: ZZman]
rshunter Offline


Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 1921
Loc: Ohio,USA
 Originally Posted By: ZZman
You get Amsoil there but not Pennzoil?
It's because the Pennzoil and Quaker State brands were acquired by the Shell Oil Co. Shell wanted to market their products under names that have a long standing reputation with the North American consumer. In Europe, the names don't mean anything to the average consumer, while Shell has been a standard bearer for decades.
_________________________
'93 Eurovan CL, '99 Eurovan GLS, '00 Golf GLS TDI, '06 Raider DuroCross V8 Ext, '08 GTI DSG

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#1393872 - 03/05/09 12:25 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: Mark888]
manus Offline


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Milano,Italy
 Originally Posted By: Mark888
 Originally Posted By: manus
Here in Italy the Mobil 1 ESP is in packs of 1 liter or 4 liters, which costs less.
I did not know the difference in ESP and EP eheh now I understand.

I found one company that had some Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP for sale in the USA. I don't know where they got it, but it was packaged by the liter (not the quart), which is very unusual for the USA market. It is specifically formulated for the latest VW TDI specification. They were selling it at about USD $8.45 per liter (not including shipping), which they claimed was a discount from the normal price by about 50%. Shipping for a case of 12 is about $15-20 based on distance from Indiana.
http://www.avlube.com/mo1espfo5wvw.html

According to Mobil 1 USA website, Mobil 1 ESP 5W-40 is not available at retail outlets in the USA, but can be purchased at Mercedes Benz dealers.

Based on the specs of the ESP, it looks like it probably uses 100% PAO stock (or close to it) not including any additives. It is my understanding from reading the Mobil 1 website, that the neither regular Mobil 1 or EP as sold in the US are 100% PAO, but they both have some PAO stock in them.

Sorry mark, what means "PAO"?
Here in Italy the Mobil ESP 5w-40 there is, for now there is only 5w30. I have a Peugeot with 135000km, I'm using for his motor Mobil 1 5w50, excellent!


Edited by manus (03/05/09 12:30 PM)
_________________________
Ford Focus 1.6 16v 03',M1 esp formula 5w30.

Top
#1394442 - 03/05/09 09:23 PM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: manus]
Mark888 Offline


Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 1084
Loc: Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: manus
Sorry mark, what means "PAO"?
Here in Italy the Mobil ESP 5w-40 there is, for now there is only 5w30. I have a Peugeot with 135000km, I'm using for his motor Mobil 1 5w50, excellent!

PAO is a Group IV synthetic base stock called Polyalphaolefin that was used to make synthetic oils. However, when Castrol starting using Group III base stock (which is hydro-cracked mineral oil) and calling it synthetic, then Mobil filed a lawsuit against Castrol for false advertising. Mobil lost the lawsuit, and hence forth companies which use Group III base stocks are allowed to call their oil synthetic in the USA (but not in all countries). Many synthetic oils sold in the USA have both Group III and PAO Group IV stocks, but it is difficult to find out how much is Base III and how much is PAO Base IV (or above) is actually in any particular oil. It is my understanding that in the EU, an oil sold as synthetic must be Group IV or above, hence you have M1 ESP and we don't.

I am sure that I didn't get this 100% correct, and others will correct my errors.

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#1394747 - 03/06/09 09:15 AM Re: Royal Purple 5w30 vs Mobil 1 5w30 "esp" formula. [Re: Mark888]
jmac Offline


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1166
Loc: N. Texas
 Originally Posted By: Mark888
 Originally Posted By: manus
Sorry mark, what means "PAO"?
Here in Italy the Mobil ESP 5w-40 there is, for now there is only 5w30. I have a Peugeot with 135000km, I'm using for his motor Mobil 1 5w50, excellent!

PAO is a Group IV synthetic base stock called Polyalphaolefin that was used to make synthetic oils. However, when Castrol starting using Group III base stock (which is hydro-cracked mineral oil) and calling it synthetic, then Mobil filed a lawsuit against Castrol for false advertising. Mobil lost the lawsuit, and hence forth companies which use Group III base stocks are allowed to call their oil synthetic in the USA (but not in all countries). Many synthetic oils sold in the USA have both Group III and PAO Group IV stocks, but it is difficult to find out how much is Base III and how much is PAO Base IV (or above) is actually in any particular oil. It is my understanding that in the EU, an oil sold as synthetic must be Group IV or above, hence you have M1 ESP and we don't.

I am sure that I didn't get this 100% correct, and others will correct my errors.


So many myths perpetrated in this post it will take some time to refute them all.

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