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#1353142 - 01/26/09 07:37 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: GMBoy]
c502cid Offline


Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 713
Loc: Elizabeth. Colorado
stevie, it's very likely that the owner of the import dealership just happens to own 2-3 domestic stores down the road. Many dealers of import and domestic share service drives. Dealership people jump from dealer to dealer all the time. How is one better than another????
_________________________
10 Dodge 1500 5.7 hemi
02 GMC 3500 4x4 8.1/Allison
00 Chev Blazer 4.3
99 Dodge Durango 5.9
84 Chev K30 454 EFI
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#1353170 - 01/26/09 08:38 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: Kernel Potter]
Propflux01 Offline


Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 3101
Loc: Arkansastan
 Originally Posted By: Kernel Potter
 Originally Posted By: Tim H.
 Originally Posted By: cousincletus
When the Hyundai drops a transmission it will be a total loss.


When it does, it will have out lasted your GM 3-fold......


"1 million miles in a Chevy Silverado

On a Friday evening in February 2008, he was still on the road with that 1991 Chevrolet Silverado, speaking on the phone with National Public Radio's Robert Siegel and watching the odometer roll over the 1 million mile mark. And, he told Siegel, he has the oil change and other maintenance records to prove it's legit."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-9373_3-9868823-55.html

Calling all 3 million mile Hyundais. There must be plenty of them right?


Sure, one in a million. thing is, I bet every manufacturer has at least one owner claiming that. If you really want to compare mileage, just go randomly pick 10 unknown-to-you "Big Three Domestics" owners, and ask their repairs in 100K miles, then randomly pick 10 more unknown-to-you people driving "Big Three Foreign" owners and ask their experiences in repairs for the same 100K mileage. That way you get unbiased answers from people who don't have a need to "protect their brand"
There are some FORD,Chrysler and GM vehicles that actually will make 100K or more trouble free miles, but sales, consumer complaints of the Domestic "Big Three's" all prove that "Foreign" models are probably better in quality. If they weren't, then sales would prove it. I have owned 4 Hyundai's since 1987, an excel, which, surprisingly never went back to the dealers for repair, and lasted to 103K before getting killed by a truck (I did a valve cover gasket for leaking). A 2002 Sante fe (106K right now on it) which has never been to the dealer for a warranty issue (only for scheduled 60K maintenance), a 2002 Elantra which had 59K on it before I traded it for my 2006 Sonata. The Sonata went back for a Warranty-Covered Mirror Switch, but have had no trouble with it otherwise, and it is at 63K now. I fully expect it to go well over 100K without any issues. I did buy my daughter a 96 Grand Am, with 103K on it. While it seems to run good, it has been through 2 LIM gaskets, One Radiator, 2 Window motors, one heater core, the infamous "Leaking Vent box with resulting carpet flooding" fiasco, which, BTW, GM was nice enough to send me a letter saying they know those cars leak, and to fix it (at my expense, of course) so the water doesn't drain on the Airbag switch causing an inadvertent deployment of the bags. While the car was used, and didn't seem abused, and got regular PM, it is literally falling apart. And seems I have become the local "LIM gasket fixer" in my circle of Acquaintances.
Those of you that bash Hyundai owners and it's quality, just google "Hyundai Rankings" and see what you come up with. You cant [censored] that many hits... Now go google "General Motors rankings" and see what you get. You GM lovers can spin this all you want, And you might even own that Chevy truck with 999, 997 miles on it, but sad to say, your an exception to the rule. However, with that being said, I do hope that GM, Chrysler, and even FORD (even though FORD is in better shape)get their heads out their arses and make the Good American Comeback. But till then, Hyundai, Honda,and Toyota are in my eyesights for new cars, and from the sales of current "foreign brands", and the Dismal outlook of "Domestic brands", my eyes aren't the only ones looking...
_________________________
2013 Hyundai Elantra- both killed by tornado
2013 Hyundai Elantra GT

A 55 Gallon Drum And A Shovel Can Solve A lot of Life's Little "Problems"

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#1353188 - 01/26/09 09:02 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: c502cid]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 5571
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Another data point,
A poor guy in my motorsports club, doing solo 2...

2002 Hyundai Elantra, multiple strut bearing failures, tranny failure, wheel bearing failures.

Granted solo 2 isn't typical usage but I have never seen any car have so many problems from solo racing... A guy runs an 1984 Hyundai Pony(a true P.O.S.), and I run my 95 Neon, and both run like a top compared this Elantra...
Are all Hyundai's junk? I don't know but that one sure was...
Ian
_________________________
07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 92km M1 5W20
03 Tracker, 5spd manual, 262km, Valvoline Syn 5W30

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#1353194 - 01/26/09 09:11 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: IndyIan]
Propflux01 Offline


Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 3101
Loc: Arkansastan
Yea, I can tear up a few orange Chargers jumping mudhills and ramps too....
_________________________
2013 Hyundai Elantra- both killed by tornado
2013 Hyundai Elantra GT

A 55 Gallon Drum And A Shovel Can Solve A lot of Life's Little "Problems"

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#1353214 - 01/26/09 09:48 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: StevieC]
NHHEMI Offline


Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 5130
Loc: NH
 Originally Posted By: StevieC
Since it is happening anyways... I invite everyone to post their GOOD & BAD Stories with all the brands they have had experiences with. Will be interesting to see.

Name the Make, Model, and miles/km driven and your experience.


Well, I sort of went into it already in my post before you made this but what the heck. I will only list my "NEW" vehicles other than 1 used one as I already mentioned it earlier in my truck count( might have counted it as a new one - sorry! ). Just keep in mind that I change vehicles fairly often because I WANT to( better vehicle, different options/engine, better MPG, whatever - different reasons )not because I always had to or anything. With the exception of 1 vehicle, the Toyota, I never got rid of one of my vehicles because it gave me problems. I am just not the guy who buys a vehicle and drives it into the ground. I like a new car or truck every couple years.

All vehicles are more or less kept the same approx time span and run for the same miles so it is a fair comparison. I am not comparing a 100K vehicle to a 10K one so I am asking the same from them all. Years/months & miles are all approx and as accurate as I can recall..

1988 Dodge Ram 50 RC/LB Sport 4WD 2.6L 4cyl - 3 Years/32K:
Head Gasket
Roll Bar & Tubular Rear Bumper multiple replacements( rust )
Clutch multiple replacement( very weak )
Tires

About 4.5-5 years here of used vehicles.

1994 Dodge Ram 1500 RC/LB 2WD SLT Laramie 5.2L( used - bought in 1996 ) - 9 months/10K:
Tires
Tune-up

***in regards to the truck above I really needed 4WD and the 318 in the truck was underpowered for my needs. I also was ready for a new vehicle again.***

1997 Dodge Ram 1500 RC/SB 4WD SLT 5.9L - 42 months/53K:
Driveshaft Rattle( hollow - fixed by filling with foam )
Starter
AC Line
Tires
Front Brakes
Clear Plastic Gauge Cluster cover cracked( replaced under warranty )

2001 Dodge Ram 1500 RC/SB 4WD SPORT 5.9L - 21 months/29K:
Front Brakes
Tires( POS Goodyears OEM )

2003 Dodge Ram 1500 QC/SB 4WD SLT 4.7L - 19 months/22K:
Door Panel Reflector Lens Fell Out( 2 - common issue )
Catalytic Converter Replaced( Recall as I seem to remember - Might have been on the 04 below? )
Mold Smell In AC/Heat Vent( dealer had a spray to deal with it )

2004 Dodge Ram 1500 QC/SB 4WD SLT 5.7L HEMI - 14 months/19K:
Catalytic Converter Replaced( Recall as I seem to remember - Might have been on the 03 above? )

*** The HEMI Ram above has been my FAVORITE vehicle of all time( excluding muscle cars )to this point bar none! Sold it when gas prices soared after Katrina. Stupid mistake I know.***

2005 Toyota Tacoma DC/SB 4WD SR5 4.0L V6 - 7 months/9K:
Severe Paint Issues( very common - chipping & peeling = HORRIBLE )
Composite Bed Cracked( going over a bump with an empty bed )
Engine Noise( under load and at idle )
Leaf Spring & Body Cab Mount Squeaks
Surging At Idle( dangerous - would just take off on you )
Brakes( BAD! )
Interior Squeaks and Rattles( horrid - all plastic and cheap - didn't start making noise until about 1-2K then went nuts )
Whistling/Wind Noise On Highway From Windshield Seal
Tires( HORRIBLE OEM tires - could not be balanced - "I" had to buy tires to fix it )

***I know I am forgetting a couple on the Toyota above but you get the point. Hands down the worst vehicle I have EVER owned new or used. Toyota would do NOTHING to help with any of the major issues( ie; paint, brakes, surging, engine noise, tires ) and was told it was all OK and everything was normal. Total and complete bull pucky! With the cracked bed they blammed ME for it. I never hauled anything heavier than a 150lbs snow blower and that was on a rubber mat. Just more B S from them. They had a few TSB's for squeaks and some of the engine noise( at idle )but they worked only part of the time and I was so disgusted with the company and dealers I just said screw it. I couldn't wait to sell that awful vehicle!

2005 Chevy Silverado 1500 EC/SB 4WD SLS 5.3L( New leftover bought in March 06 ) - 10 months/11K:
MAF Sensor
Intermediate( Steering )Shaft Clunk
Aligment( I replaced OE tires right off - alignment was slightly out so done under warranty )

***Sold the truck above only after it was almost destroyed in a massive hail storm( just 3 months after buying it \:\( ). Over 15K worth of damage the insurance company would only pay 8K on( I fought like a pit bull for a full repair but couldn't do any better ). I got it fixed as best I could and sold it just as fast as I could( full damage disclosure don't misunderstand )! Very good truck and would not have sold it if not for the damage and 1/2 arsed repairs!***

2007 (NBS)Chevy Silverado 1500 EC/SB 4WD SLS 5.3L w/ AFM - 1 year/13K:
Only issues I ever had was extremely poor MPG. Had it in multiple times about it but never anything wrong found? Overall a nice truck. Sold it when financial issues arose for me and downsized to a more economical vehicle.

2008 Chevy Equinox AWD 1LT 3.4L V6 - 11 months/15K:
Passenger's Rear Window Track Issues When Wet( just needed lube )
DIC( couple features innaccurate )
BCM Ground( TSB - fixed )

***sold this vehicle because all of the local Chevy garages went out of business. Only left 2 within a 50-70 mile radius one way and neither was one I would consider dealing with. Returned to the Dodge dealer my Family has always used. No issues with it and it was GREAT on gas!***

2008 Dodge Ram 1500 QC/SB 4WD SLT 5.7L HEMI w/ MDS - Current/2500K:
No Problems other than the god awful OE Goodyear Wrangler HP POS tires. I knew I would not be happy with the tires and would have to replace them when buying it though so I don't consider it a problem. Just a poor choice by the mfg.

So in my experience the Dodge & Chevy vehicles have been much better quality than the Toyota I had. The car mfg and dealer base has been superior as well. I know it is just ONE Toyota but as you can see it was not a good one. I will NEVER buy another vehicle from them based partly on that lemon but more so really based on the fact they would do nothing about the serious and major problems it had. "ANY" mfg can produce a lemon but if they and their dealer base won't stand behind the vehicle and fix those issues it becomes a nightmare( )for the owner as it did me with the Toyota. That truck was falling apart under me as I drove and it was NOT a safe vehicle to drive.






Edited by NHHEMI (01/26/09 09:51 AM)
_________________________
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2014 Jeep Cherokee
"Latitude"
3.2L V6 4WD( ADI )


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#1353237 - 01/26/09 10:29 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: Propflux01]
brianl703 Offline


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 10487
Loc: Manassas, VA
 Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Yea, I can tear up a few orange Chargers jumping mudhills and ramps too....


Solo 2 is autocrossing. That shouldn't cause any vehicle any more damage than a little extra tire wear.

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#1353238 - 01/26/09 10:34 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: Ben99GT]
brianl703 Offline


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 10487
Loc: Manassas, VA
 Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I don't think I've ever read a more ignorant post in my life.


He's from MD. If it weren't for sucking off the Federal tit, the entire state would be bankrupt. He's one to talk about a bailout.


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#1353262 - 01/26/09 11:08 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: Propflux01]
yeti Offline


Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 685
Loc: windsor, ontario, canada.
gmboy makes a comment about one flipping burgers. its' a good point. in the not too distant future, flipping burgers will be considered a good job. the banking/ financial industry bailout will push $1 trllion. the big 3 LOANS are a pittance, relative to that $ number.the american (and canadian) governments have been subsidizing the farming, airline, steel, & timber/softwood industries, to name a few, for years/decades. yet people don't bitc* , ad nauseam, about that.
we're witnessing the slow erosion of the middle class in north america, while the middle class is rising in china. the lack of action by the governments to level the playing field in trade, about 15 years ago, is the biggest single issue here. the company and union heads of the large manufacturing industries have been on the governments about this since the early-mid nineties. it just doesn't make sense to let major industries slowly slip away. the governments are now forced to "subsidize" industry, BECAUSE of their inaction/incompetence. your new president says that he will address trade imbalances. he cannot go there and try to force the chinese, koreans, and japanese to level the playing field in trade. he has no cards to play, as these nations own more than $2 trillion in american debt, as well as hundreds of billions of u.s. dollars in reserves.
there were comments a few weeks back from people with degrees complaining that the big 3 line workers made more money than they did. that won't be the case in the future, when most manufacturing jobs are overseas. the funny thing is that many of the educated people are too stupid/shortsighted to see that they, too, will be without a job. many/most of the service industry jobs that will be created won't need engineers, designeers, MBA's, on so on. the educated ones that lose their jobs as manufacturing disappears will be competing with the tens of thousands that the colleges pump out every year. and most will be competing for low paying, service industry jobs.
who will pick up the tab for the future loss of hundreds of billions of dollars in lost tax revenue ? in the near future, the person that asks you "would you like fries with that"?, will likely have his/hers framed MBA on the wall in front of the microphone.
it's happening as we speak. we should all think twice before we go on about how much the big 3 workers make, especially the ones that believe that they make $150,000./ year, and the ones that wish for the demise of the auto industry, or any manufacturing industry. the old line -- be careful what you wish for - you just might get it. it's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. when manufacturing disappears, in any industry, we all eventually pay. the one thing that i don't understand -- why does that elude most people ?
_________________________
"there is no sense in having an argument with a man so stupid, he doesn't know you have the better of him." -- john raper

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#1353291 - 01/26/09 11:37 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: yeti]
brianl703 Offline


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 10487
Loc: Manassas, VA
Does burger assembly count as manufacturing?

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#1353296 - 01/26/09 11:41 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: brianl703]
yeti Offline


Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 685
Loc: windsor, ontario, canada.
brian -- in the future -- i hope not.
_________________________
"there is no sense in having an argument with a man so stupid, he doesn't know you have the better of him." -- john raper

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#1353384 - 01/26/09 01:41 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: yeti]
brianl703 Offline


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 10487
Loc: Manassas, VA
I'm forseeing some burger franchise owner applying for Federal grants for manufacturing facilities.

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#1353390 - 01/26/09 01:49 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: brianl703]
qship1996 Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 740
Loc: md
 Originally Posted By: brianl703
 Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I don't think I've ever read a more ignorant post in my life.


He's from MD. If it weren't for sucking off the Federal tit, the entire state would be bankrupt. He's one to talk about a bailout.



Last I heard, Maryland residents income was the highest of ANY state in the ENTIRE country.....might want to look that up.Virginia is one of the poorest if you exclude northern virginia{who sucks off your so called federal tit}

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#1353396 - 01/26/09 01:55 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: GMBoy]
qship1996 Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 740
Loc: md
 Originally Posted By: GMBoy


You are just one reason I'm glad to be out of Maryland. What a ridiculous post. You are the posterboy of the ill informed import boys. Enjoy flipping burgers? You will be.



You, as a GM employee will be the one flipping burgers, along with all your other employees who were too lazy to work hard to produce a quality product that consumers wanted to purchase....you took the american people for suckers for too long, and they all left you and now you sit whining and [censored] about it with your hand out for help.

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#1353397 - 01/26/09 01:55 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: qship1996]
brianl703 Offline


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 10487
Loc: Manassas, VA
 Originally Posted By: qship1996

Last I heard, Maryland residents income was the highest of ANY state in the ENTIRE country.


Thanks to jobs in Virginia, which they commute to.

But there's plenty of people in Northern Virginia sucking off the federal tit too. I was here in 1996 when the FedGov couldn't come up with a budget and shut down for a couple of days. There was no rush hour at all those days.

It's a little hypocritical to talk about bailouts when you live in a state that has benefited handsomely from Federal government largesse. Federal tax dollars flow like water through the DC suburbs.


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#1353405 - 01/26/09 02:04 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: brianl703]
qship1996 Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 740
Loc: md
Because virginia residents are too dumb to qualify for their states jobs, or they all drive American cars that are broken not allowing them to drive to interviews?

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