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#1353409 - 01/26/09 02:09 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: qship1996]
yeti Offline


Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 845
Loc: windsor, ontario, canada.
brian -- burger franchise owners won't have to apply for federal grant money.most of them do and will do very well. that would explain the huge overweight/obesity rates of kids recently. many studies have shown that teens have high b.p./triglicerides/blood pressure. point is -- invest in fast food franchises (and health care). that's the future.
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#1353411 - 01/26/09 02:10 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: qship1996]
brianl703 Offline


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 10487
Loc: Manassas, VA
 Originally Posted By: qship1996
Because virginia residents are too dumb to qualify for their states jobs


Careful, those dumb Virginia residents are the ones creating jobs. The ready supply of labor from Maryland who can't find jobs local to them helps the economic growth in Virginia.

It's either that, or people from Maryland just put up with 2+ hour commutes just for the [censored] of it.

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#1353414 - 01/26/09 02:12 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: yeti]
brianl703 Offline


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 10487
Loc: Manassas, VA
 Originally Posted By: yeti
burger franchise owners won't have to apply for federal grant money


They won't need it, but if it's available, why not take it?

We actually had a Checker's go out of business up the street. It is quite possibly the only time I've ever seen a fast-food place fold.

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#1353418 - 01/26/09 02:19 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: brianl703]
yeti Offline


Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 845
Loc: windsor, ontario, canada.
brian -- " ... if it's available, ...". good point, and you're right. on a fast food place folding -- you're right again. they don't fold up too often. more often than not, the fast food places are like a licence to print money.
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#1353429 - 01/26/09 02:30 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: qship1996]
brianl703 Offline


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 10487
Loc: Manassas, VA
 Originally Posted By: qship1996
Because virginia residents are too dumb to qualify for their states jobs, or they all drive American cars that are broken not allowing them to drive to interviews?


By the way:

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/state_unemployment/

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#1353654 - 01/26/09 06:38 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: StevieC]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 29528
Loc: Ontario, Canada
 Originally Posted By: StevieC
 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Which is exactly the point I was making. The Japanese regard themselves as superior. Why would they want inferior American products in Japan? So they simply prevent them from being sold there.

But of course our lovely "free market" system over here allows them to dump their products on our soil! We even encourage them by giving them millions of dollars in grants to build assembly facilities.

I see no reciprocation from Japan. They probably think we are absolute idiots.

I find it comical that Japan paying for the development of the Prius is accepted by Japanese auto enthusiasts here. Yet any financial assistance given to our own manufacturers is frowned upon. Even though OUR companies have to PAY IT BACK! Do you think Toyota had to pay back the Japanese government? Of course not! They have no problem paying for Toyota's R&D as long as it leads to Japanese domination of the automotive sector, which appears to be happening.


If Domestic brands were "as good" or "better" than this would not have been a problem and they would of continued to out-do the Japanese and/or Korean brands. This hasn't happend. Why?

Because people are happier with "foreign" products and the service they provide at their dealerships. (Yes I know they haven't been perfect, but IMO much better than that of Domestic brands)

Why else would consumers take their wallets elsewhere if a Domestic was a better overall experience and value? Because they woke up one day and decided to?

I'm still struggling to see why...


It's trendy?

The "Fast and the Furious" crowd hiked the price of used Import Sport Compacts through the roof........ There are lots of kids still riding that wave.

It used to be Mustangs and F-bodies. Now it is Civics and Corollas.

There are multiple reasons as to the increase in Import popularity. It does not all revolve around "Domestic Inferiority".


Edited by OVERK1LL (01/26/09 06:39 PM)
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#1353669 - 01/26/09 06:49 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: yeti]
Cutehumor Offline


Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 9279
Loc: USA
 Originally Posted By: yeti
there were comments a few weeks back from people with degrees complaining that the big 3 line workers made more money than they did. that won't be the case in the future, when most manufacturing jobs are overseas. the funny thing is that many of the educated people are too stupid/shortsighted to see that they, too, will be without a job. many/most of the service industry jobs that will be created won't need engineers, designeers, MBA's, on so on. the educated ones that lose their jobs as manufacturing disappears will be competing with the tens of thousands that the colleges pump out every year. and most will be competing for low paying, service industry jobs.


I think if that was to happen, we would be in another great depression. I have two college degrees in health care. But if a GM worker assembly line worker makes $40/hr, that's ridiculous amount of money. You add to that the legacy costs included, no wonder GM is bankrupt.
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#1353716 - 01/26/09 07:51 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: Cutehumor]
yeti Offline


Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 845
Loc: windsor, ontario, canada.
cutehumor -- manufacturing jobs slowly disappearing is happening, and has been for many years, and are and will be replaced by lower wage service industry jobs. whether people agree on protecting these jobs, or not,is irrelevant. it has to be done, just as bailing out the banking/ financial industry is necessary. things will remain stagnant until credit is more readily available, and consumer confidence returns.
the new government has to print more money for the economic stimulus package, which will in turn affect inflation. it's a mess, and obama has his work cut out for him.no one can dispute that these are bitter pills to swallow, but it is necessary.

some people just don't understand that when the manufacturing base erodes, so does the middle class, and then the standard of living. and society as a whole will pay. you mention legacy costs. as gm has an approximate 2.5 to 1 retiree & dependent to active employee ratio,health care costs are killing them, as with many large businesses. it's a different animal in canada, as our health care is tax funded.
we could go on about this all day.
it makes for intelligent discussion, until a poster comes along spewing stupidity and untrue stories about which he knows nothing.at the end of the day, it's entertaining to read different points of view, as long as the posts are civil. you chose well getting your degrees in health care. you'll do well. have a good night.
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#1353760 - 01/26/09 08:28 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: StevieC]
javacontour Offline


Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 8312
Loc: Illinois
 Originally Posted By: StevieC
 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Which is exactly the point I was making. The Japanese regard themselves as superior. Why would they want inferior American products in Japan? So they simply prevent them from being sold there.

But of course our lovely "free market" system over here allows them to dump their products on our soil! We even encourage them by giving them millions of dollars in grants to build assembly facilities.

I see no reciprocation from Japan. They probably think we are absolute idiots.

I find it comical that Japan paying for the development of the Prius is accepted by Japanese auto enthusiasts here. Yet any financial assistance given to our own manufacturers is frowned upon. Even though OUR companies have to PAY IT BACK! Do you think Toyota had to pay back the Japanese government? Of course not! They have no problem paying for Toyota's R&D as long as it leads to Japanese domination of the automotive sector, which appears to be happening.


If Domestic brands were "as good" or "better" than this would not have been a problem and they would of continued to out-do the Japanese and/or Korean brands. This hasn't happend. Why?

Because people are happier with "foreign" products and the service they provide at their dealerships. (Yes I know they haven't been perfect, but IMO much better than that of Domestic brands)

Why else would consumers take their wallets elsewhere if a Domestic was a better overall experience and value? Because they woke up one day and decided to?

I'm still struggling to see why...


StevieC and OverKill,

My personal anecdote goes back a few years when I installed some computer gear for Ford in the Explorer plant here in St. Louis before the plant shut down. I was amazed at how vehicles are assembled, with a new one coming down the line every few minutes, almost ready to run. I don't recall the time, but it was about 24 hours from start to finish when the frame started at one end and it was fired up and driven off at the other.

But what struck me as odd was the Left Hand Drive (LHD) Explorers I saw. The LHD units went through extra QC checks. Why? Because Ford learned that the Japanese wouldn't accept (I.E. buy) the quality that our domestically sold units shipped. So they did extra inspections and more corrections at the factory so that the LHD units going to Japan would compare favorably to their competition in the Japanese market place.

The question I had, which the IT guy couldn't answer was why didn't we just build ALL of them to that standard, instead of just the ones bound for Japan?

I think that is the frustrating part for many American consumers who perceive there is a quality gap. I'd say many, or even most of us believe we CAN build the highest quality vehicles at a competitive price, but we don't.

Perception or not, I know what I saw on the line, and it has shaped my view of how we build cars, both good and bad.
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#1353767 - 01/26/09 08:32 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: javacontour]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 29528
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Don't you mean RHD?

North American vehicles are LHD........

I would imagine assembling a vehicle that was designed as LHD, as RHD would demand some additional attention. The general layout of much of Ford's wiring would dictate this, something I have some experience with.

Any idea of the actual number of Explorers shipped to Japan? It does not strike me as a vehicle that would do well there due to its size.....


Edited by OVERK1LL (01/26/09 08:33 PM)
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#1353776 - 01/26/09 08:37 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: OVERKILL]
javacontour Offline


Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 8312
Loc: Illinois
Yes, I guess I should have QC'ed my post, LOL.

I blame it on having just done the dishes after dinner. Fumes from the soap, yeah, that's it, LOL.
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#1353864 - 01/26/09 09:41 PM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: javacontour]
Propflux01 Offline


Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 3241
Loc: Arkansastan
 Originally Posted By: javacontour
Yes, I guess I should have QC'ed my post, LOL.

I blame it on having just done the dishes after dinner. Fumes from the soap, yeah, that's it, LOL.


I think its that Domestic manufacturing QC!!!


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#1354075 - 01/27/09 07:00 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: Propflux01]
yeti Offline


Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 845
Loc: windsor, ontario, canada.
java -- you yanks have dishsoap that gives you a buzz ? lucky bug*ers. we canucks don't have that. any way that you could send some of that to windsor ?
_________________________
"there is no sense in having an argument with a man so stupid, he doesn't know you have the better of him." -- john raper

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#1354082 - 01/27/09 07:22 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: qship1996]
GMBoy Offline


Registered: 11/22/04
Posts: 6796
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: qship1996
 Originally Posted By: GMBoy


You are just one reason I'm glad to be out of Maryland. What a ridiculous post. You are the posterboy of the ill informed import boys. Enjoy flipping burgers? You will be.



You, as a GM employee will be the one flipping burgers, along with all your other employees who were too lazy to work hard to produce a quality product that consumers wanted to purchase....you took the american people for suckers for too long, and they all left you and now you sit whining and [censored] about it with your hand out for help.



Does the term "out of touch" ring a bell with you? Oh, yeah I'll do the fries - you can do the burgers. I have an A.A degree, 2 bachelor degrees and my Mba - but if flipping burgers feeds my family so be it.

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#1354085 - 01/27/09 07:24 AM Re: GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008 [Re: yeti]
XS650 Offline



Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 12385
Loc: Northern CA
 Originally Posted By: yeti
java -- you yanks have dishsoap that gives you a buzz ? lucky bug*ers. we canucks don't have that. any way that you could send some of that to windsor ?


There is bath soap with caffeine in it that helps wake you up in the morning.
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