Bruceblend®0w10 MolyFree Stealth Formula 5000m

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

Gary Allan

Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Messages
39,799
This is a Dyson Analysis. Blackstone and Bruce's labs to follow.

I've had my wife drive this, almost exclusively, on her 52mpd commute. With some mixed shorter trip usage, fuel economy is still above what is typical for this chassis/engine/trans combo.
2540.png


Filters EaO and Purolator(air) unchanged since 2500 miles

No make up oil. All consumption is in sampling. I think I've lost count, but it's over 1 quart. I buffered a bit in the initial fill for sampling, but I've taken more out than I anticipated (Bruce, Terry, Blackstone at least twice each). I have one sample on deck in case something happens to the others.
5000/2500/VOA-Dyson
Fe 21/12/2
Cu 18/16/0
Tn 3/0/0
Pb 0/0/0 so much for bearing clearances with thin oil
grin2.gif

Cr 2/1/0
Nic 0/0/0
Al 5/3/1
Cal 2485/2765/2284
Magne 70/21/15
Zinc 1586/1777/1605
Phos 1369/1233/1265
Bari 164/150/156
Moly 218/275/0 (leftovers from something
54.gif
)
Sil 33/28/2
Sod 22/16/4
Boron 16/15/30
Pot 0/0/0
Visc 40C Cst 26.5/22.0/22.8
Visc 100C Cst 5.5/4.6/4.7
TAN 4.06/2.29/1.79
TBN 2.7/6.1/10.7
Flash 325/270/410
OXI 46/42/35
NIT 13/9/5
KFH20 578/1063/1641
Fuel 1.25/1.73/0
VI 150/128/127
Sulfate byproduct=45


I'm uncertain of what I'm going to do here. I'm going to wait for all the results to get in and see what Bruce thinks. Terry was a bit rushed and will get me his interpretation in a day or two.

Let the comments begin!!
grin2.gif




Link to previous UOA results from all labs.
 
I don't know Gary. Is this a Jeep? How does this UOA compare to other oils you've tried in this vehicle? I can see why Terry wants a little more time to interpret this one for you. I aplaud your pioneership!
 
Still a lot of zinc and phos, but apparently in a neutered form with the TBN dropping so low. Flash point did a weird dance, dropping and raising, maybe a fuel issue? Are these fuel levels a concern? An expanding VI, interesting! What is KFH2O (KF-water)? Did this runny lube result in a significant fuel mileage improvement?
 
Tan greater than tbn. Wear metals and flash. You do remember what happened to Dr. Frankenstein?
 
Quote:
Fe and Tan? Both seem a bit high.


Well, I don't know what the VOA TAN is for most oils. As you can see you're starting out @ 1.79 here.




Quote:
I don't know Gary. Is this a Jeep? How does this UOA compare to other oils you've tried in this vehicle?

and

It looks like the FE is climbing up pretty fast.


This has never had a stellar UOA by BITOG standards. Fe has always been a problem. I haven't hit the right combo to stop the normal shedding that these engines evidence. Some can do it with Havoline conventional ..but what's fun about that??


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1015955


Quote:
Flash point did a weird dance, dropping and raising, maybe a fuel issue? Are these fuel levels a concern? An expanding VI, interesting! What is KFH2O (KF-water)? Did this runny lube result in a significant fuel mileage improvement?


The fuel numbers doing the dance is probably sample variance. Fuel levels, while important to the numbers, aren't truly a major concern for me other than demonstrating how reducing them can reduce a few of the numbers in a proportional manner.

That is Karl Fischer water number. The VI drift can surely be lab/sample variance ...or just that the 40C visc didn't change so much when the 100C visc thickened. This may be a great feature if the TBN retention can be extended. As oxidation increases, you counter your fuel dilution ...but don't lose your colder properties....(
grin2.gif
)

The typical highway mileage for this rig is 17.5mpg. Highway is typically a penalty. If you're REAL careful, you can achieve 20.x with suburban driving in our rolling hill environment. Shorter trip stuff yields V8 levels of fuel economy.

I hope to take a longer ..single warm up..trip of a couple of hundred miles to check fuel economy. My last trip out to western PA yielded 17.5 hanging with traffic (65 with bouts up to 80) on the way out ..with 23.x on the way back with drafting and staying at 65 max (due to most trucks being governed to 65mph).



FZ1: You never fail me, pal
grin2.gif
cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

Cu 18/16/0

Pb 0/0/0 so much for bearing clearances with thin oil
grin2.gif



Copper is high because there's no lead left in the bearings.
LOL.gif



Seriously, it looks pretty decent. A nice winter oil for sure. Time to step up to the 0W5.
 
I know you've had issues with getting a 'clean run' with this rig, Gary. I'd venture a guess that the rapidly rising Cu/Fe is in relation to the relatively high Si for the miles. The 10-weight isn't hurting the engine, but PERHAPS it is a bit too thin to protect from abrasive Si damage?

Until you get a very low Si reading, you may never know just how well this oil really works - you/we need to find a way to run it in a very 'dirt free' engine to see how it JUST deals with regular 'running friction'....
 
Quote:
Could the moly be from piston rings?

Didn't you have another bruceblend oil in there last time that had like a bazillion ppm moly!


I MUST have added VSOT during one of the RTS runs a couple of years back. It obviously sank out and formed some type of mass ..probably sitting in the pan. The M1 filter I cut open had me in shock with the black mass that settled out on the bottom exterior shell (horizontal orientation). Bruce's 0w-20 Lite liberated it in one manner or another. For all I know the Si is leaching with it
21.gif


Quote:
I know you've had issues with getting a 'clean run' with this rig, Gary. I'd venture a guess that the rapidly rising Cu/Fe is in relation to the relatively high Si for the miles. The 10-weight isn't hurting the engine, but PERHAPS it is a bit too thin to protect from abrasive Si damage?

Until you get a very low Si reading, you may never know just how well this oil really works - you/we need to find a way to run it in a very 'dirt free' engine to see how it JUST deals with regular 'running friction'....


Yep ..this is not an ideal candidate to do this type of work/testing ..but it's what I got to work with
21.gif


I think the Cu is from the distributor gear. I haven't verified it ..but I have a hard time figuring the Cu at all. The cam bearings are steel backed Babbitt and I don't have the Pb or Tin that one would think would be jumping ship with it.

This too may be stuff embedded in whatever is producing the moly. I'd hate to put this trip on hold for an Auto-Rx run ..but it may be necessary.

Until this all gets resolved (if ever) I'd say that the stuff has proven a 7k-7.5k (likely) lifespan under this type of mixed service. This broke down to about 50:50 of shorter trip and highway usage (the first 2500 mostly shorter trips and the second mostly highway). Thickening due to oxidation was minimal.

I'd say that it's close enough to fulfilling a typical OEM lifespan given the engine that it's used in. This is a tractor engine that should have been retired from the road 10 years ago and is more suitable for an irrigation pump. If this oil can survive in this engine, I imagine that some rollerized valve train with a timing belt and HLA came followers would probably do very well on it.

We'll have lab results from Bruce's labs and Blackstone to evaluate how the various TBN tests compare. Not that it will alter Terry's take on it ..but it may provide a more rational view for the rest of us.
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
Could the moly be from piston rings?

Didn't you have another bruceblend oil in there last time that had like a bazillion ppm moly!


I MUST have added VSOT during one of the RTS runs a couple of years back. It obviously sank out and formed some type of mass ..probably sitting in the pan. The M1 filter I cut open had me in shock with the black mass that settled out on the bottom exterior shell (horizontal orientation). Bruce's 0w-20 Lite liberated it in one manner or another. For all I know the Si is leaching with it
21.gif


Quote:
I know you've had issues with getting a 'clean run' with this rig, Gary. I'd venture a guess that the rapidly rising Cu/Fe is in relation to the relatively high Si for the miles. The 10-weight isn't hurting the engine, but PERHAPS it is a bit too thin to protect from abrasive Si damage?

Until you get a very low Si reading, you may never know just how well this oil really works - you/we need to find a way to run it in a very 'dirt free' engine to see how it JUST deals with regular 'running friction'....


Yep ..this is not an ideal candidate to do this type of work/testing ..but it's what I got to work with
21.gif


I think the Cu is from the distributor gear. I haven't verified it ..but I have a hard time figuring the Cu at all. The cam bearings are steel backed Babbitt and I don't have the Pb or Tin that one would think would be jumping ship with it.

This too may be stuff embedded in whatever is producing the moly. I'd hate to put this trip on hold for an Auto-Rx run ..but it may be necessary.

Until this all gets resolved (if ever) I'd say that the stuff has proven a 7k-7.5k (likely) lifespan under this type of mixed service. This broke down to about 50:50 of shorter trip and highway usage (the first 2500 mostly shorter trips and the second mostly highway). Thickening due to oxidation was minimal.

I'd say that it's close enough to fulfilling a typical OEM lifespan given the engine that it's used in. This is a tractor engine that should have been retired from the road 10 years ago and is more suitable for an irrigation pump. If this oil can survive in this engine, I imagine that some rollerized valve train with a timing belt and HLA came followers would probably do very well on it.

We'll have lab results from Bruce's labs and Blackstone to evaluate how the various TBN tests compare. Not that it will alter Terry's take on it ..but it may provide a more rational view for the rest of us.
21.gif



Agree very much with what you say about the service life of this oil. I was thinking it has 'proven' it will survive a 7k run, if not 'much' else.....
 
It was roughly in service 4 months. I guess it would be on the fringe in a 6m/7500 deal ..but WOULD manage 5k without too much fear factor given the "unclean" nature of my test platform.

I'll wait for all the results ..but I'm starting to really lean to doing a two bottle 1000 mile deal with Auto-Rx to get the moly (and whatever may be there with it) out of the engine. On Bruce's original formula (that's the one with GOBS of moly) it liberated 2400ppm of copper from the heat exchangers that I had installed on my minivan. The rest of the metals were in sub single digits. For all I know the VSOT scrubbed some Cu on its way to wherever it landed.
 
Here's Blackstone's take on it:

Fe 14/8
Cu 11/9
Tn 0/0
Pb 0/1
Cr 1/1
Nic 1/0
Al 4/3
Cal 2796/2605
Magne 12/13
Zinc 1194/1211
Phos 1056/1075
Moly 168/151
Sil 26/22
Sod 10/7
Boron 12/16
Pot 3/2
Barium 146/144

Visc 100C Cst 5.3/4.95

Flash 400/360 (parallels Terry's increase in flash)
insolubles .3

Blackstone is finding the moly level to be constant too.
 
Done by Analstst Inc Oakland Ca

VOA UOA

FE-2,18
CR- NI- AL-1,5
CU- SI-3,33
B-31,10
NA-3,16
Mo P-1330,1116
ZN-1777,1537
CA-3072,2826
BA-171,137
MG-14,19
All others
V40-24.1,27.3
V100-5.3,6.2
VI-160,189

D2896 TBN
TBN-11.52,6.00
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

INDYMAC
  • Locked
LE8130/10W-30, 5650 miles, 2000 Tundra V-8
2 3
Replies
50
Views
23K
Y_K
G
  • Locked
Bruceblend®0w10 MolyFree Stealth Formula 2500m
2 3 4
Replies
71
Views
52K
Gary Allan
G
  • Locked
02 jeep 2.5/5k Bruceblend 0w-10 5100
4 5 6
Replies
108
Views
120K
Gary Allan
G
  • Locked
Bruceblend®0w10 MolyFree Stealth Formula Dyson
Replies
14
Views
5K
Colt45ws
A
  • Locked
Castrol Syntec 0w-30, 6,883 miles, '05 Subaru STi
Replies
11
Views
6K
Bill in Utah
Back
Top