Transmission drain & refill

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Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: crinkles
Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: crinkles
give it 1,000 miles between back to back drain and fills to mix well. I only had to do it twice and always looks brand new now.


1000 miles? That's a bit much methinks
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When doing back to back drain and refills, it's pretty easy to tell it's fairly well mixed even if you only drive around the block a couple of times.


I think if you pulled a cooler line you would see how easy it is. The fluid only comes out at about 1 PT per minute so you can easily watch the 2 QTs come out and shut the engine off without a helper. With a helper its even easier.

If you do not have a drain plug then its definetly.

Did I mention this is also a much greener way to do it as you are only using the total fill amount?

well at least you get some use out of the fresh fluid. the 30% new can be used for 1000 miles before dumping out. Why dump that new fraction after 2 miles? effect is the same and you spread your costs. i waited 5,000km between my drain and fills.


I completely agree with you, in most cases a single drain and refill is all that's needed, especially if you're on a regular maintenance schedule. But doing the back to back D and R is the way to go for neglected trannies.

Plus there is the convenience factor. It's just as easy to do a D and R, drive for a bit, then do it again right away while your ramps, tools, etc., are still out.

And if you're switching to synthetics, and you don't want to do a complete flush, back to backs will get more of the good stuff in there faster :)


Why do back to back drain and refills when a cooler line flush will exchange above 90% of the fluid for close to the same about of fluid used in two drain and refills. Make no sense to me if you have easy access to the cooler lines.


Of course it makes no sense to you, because you're thinking like someone who knows how to do that job. But many people have never done that/ don't feel competent enough to do that, and for those people, back to back drain and refills makes perfect sense.

Does that make sense?
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I stopped using drain and refills 15 years ago. ATF is now too expensive to use that method. You throw away too much good fluid. With a flush you might waste a quart towards the end of the flush as the color turns bright red. Just check the capacity of your unit and keep track of all fluids going in and amount drained/pumped out.

I actually shift throught the gears, stopping a few seconds in each gear while the flushing is taking place. This way you can get more new fluid into various hydraulic circuits of the trans, moving more old fluid out at the same time. It helps to have an extra person to watch the fluid flow coming out, or to start/stop the engine for you.

I have seen fluid so bad that I did a complete flush with cheap Dex III (several gallons), added some Auto-Rx for a 1000-1500 mile run, then re-flushed with a higher quality fluid of correct type to run from then on. The fluid stays very clean after that, because the new fluid is not getting dirty while cleaning up the trans internals. The cheap fluid/ARX already did that. The new fluid just has to keep it clean. If you can install an inline filter, this will help to keep the fluid clean for a longer period of time, which helps tremendously if the new fluid is expensive.
 
Quote:
You throw away too much good fluid.


I agree. Even if I'm servicing the internal filter to see what's in the pan, I drain it through the cooler line first to save the mess.

Quote:
But many people have never done that/ don't feel competent enough to do that, and for those people, back to back drain and refills makes perfect sense.


I'd say that they're doing themselves a disservice in not learning this (typically) very easy technique. In many domestics, the assembly process shortcuts make it easier due to quick connect fasteners at the trans. On my son's 2000 Cherokee, the mere pinching of some plastic twin wedge "lock" allowed the return line to be pulled from the trans.

..but I'll agree that uncharted waters always look treacherous ..even if they're only ankle or knee deep.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I would just do 2 drain/refills to get out the old ATF, you will be surprised just how dirty the magnetic drain plug on your Honda gets.

I agree..then do one maybe ever 8 to 10 k miles. I wouldn't do the flush thing. Its just not necessary and potentially can cause problems.
 
The Honda service manual calls for a total of four drain/fill/drive/repeat cycles. I do it on our Hondas once every 30k miles. Transmissions seem to be the weak point for many Hondas, so I'm trying to do my part on the maintenance end.
 
Originally Posted By: wgtoys
Transmissions seem to be the weak point for many Hondas, so I'm trying to do my part on the maintenance end.


Unless the transmission has already been replaced with the updated version, you're just wasting your time and money. - The Critic
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: wgtoys
Transmissions seem to be the weak point for many Hondas, so I'm trying to do my part on the maintenance end.


Unless the transmission has already been replaced with the updated version, you're just wasting your time and money. - The Critic

I never said my statement applied to all Honda automatics. Some of them are quite durable, while others are not.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: wgtoys
Transmissions seem to be the weak point for many Hondas, so I'm trying to do my part on the maintenance end.


Unless the transmission has already been replaced with the updated version, you're just wasting your time and money. - The Critic

I never said my statement applied to all Honda automatics. Some of them are quite durable, while others are not.


So, only if you're an Odyssey or Accord owner that share the H5 automatic with the TL are doomed to an assured death of their automatics ..or is this something limited to Acura's TL's and those that drive them??
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: wgtoys
Transmissions seem to be the weak point for many Hondas, so I'm trying to do my part on the maintenance end.


Unless the transmission has already been replaced with the updated version, you're just wasting your time and money. - The Critic

I never said my statement applied to all Honda automatics. Some of them are quite durable, while others are not.


So, only if you're an Odyssey or Accord owner that share the H5 automatic with the TL are doomed to an assured death of their automatics ..or is this something limited to Acura's TL's and those that drive them??



Well, yes it just affects TLs. Here's the inside story...

At the H5 factory, the QA guys pull out the all the defective transmissions, and throw them in the Transmission Lemon bucket.

Eventually the bucket got full. They didn't want to ruin the rep of the good cars that used H5's so they decided to make a new car to dispose of the Transmission Lemons in.

Acura's marketing dept. said that calling this new car an "Acura Transmission Lemon" was too long of a name, and didn't fit in with their habit of using obscure acronyms to name car models. So they shortened it to Acura TL.
 
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Thanks. I was hoping that The Critic would come back and confirm it one way or the other. I don't know the history of the trans in other chassis ..but if it was limited mostly to the TL ..which The Critic regards as a much desired ride, then I would say that it was more due to the type of people that buy TL's than it is the transmission. I can't statistically prove it, but most of Chrysler's issues with their automatics appeared to fall upon the minivans. I didn't see nearly enough other Chrysler products in the trans shops compared to the mass number of minivans. Now this could surely mean that they either sold THAT many more lame trans'd minivans ...or that minivan service was too severe ..or that minivan drivers were too abusive.


So, do Odyssey's and Accord suffer from "assured" failure with the H5 trans ..that's identical to the TL's ..or is it that TL drivers FLOG THE CRAFP out of them and destroy them?? I was hoping The Critic would help me learn
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: wgtoys
Transmissions seem to be the weak point for many Hondas, so I'm trying to do my part on the maintenance end.


Unless the transmission has already been replaced with the updated version, you're just wasting your time and money. - The Critic

I never said my statement applied to all Honda automatics. Some of them are quite durable, while others are not.


So, only if you're an Odyssey or Accord owner that share the H5 automatic with the TL are doomed to an assured death of their automatics ..or is this something limited to Acura's TL's and those that drive them??


98-02 Accord 4-cyl-- some last, some don't. Real [censored].
98-02 Accord V6-- lots of failures, but possibly a bit less than the TL
99 TL- Better than the 00-03 CL/TL, but hardly reliable
00-03 CL/TL- junk.
99-01 Odyssey- junk
02-03 Odyssey- usually OK, but not perfect
03 Accord V6- same as 02-03 Odyssey
01-02 MDX- Torque converter problems?
 
Quote:
98-02 Accord V6-- lots of failures, but possibly a bit less than the TL
99 TL- Better than the 00-03 CL/TL, but hardly reliable
00-03 CL/TL- junk.
99-01 Odyssey- junk
02-03 Odyssey- usually OK, but not perfect
03 Accord V6- same as 02-03 Odyssey
01-02 MDX- Torque converter problems?
98-02 Accord 4-cyl-- some last, some don't. Real [censored].


Hmmmm
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Can you do some overlay on how the H5 in the TL ..that is going to grenade sooner or later ..fits into the list you gave me??

That is, it would appear that it wasn't in many of the cars that you cite ..at least in all of the years that you accredit it too.

Wiki

The H5 is Honda's first 5-speed automatic transmission.

Applications:

* 2000 Acura TL (M7WA)
* 2001–2003 Acura CL (BGFA)
* 2001–2003 Acura CL (MGFA)
* 2001–2003 Acura TL (B7WA)
* 2001 Acura MDX (MGHA)
* 2002–2003 Acura RSX (MRMA)
* 2002 Acura MDX (BGHA)
* 2002 Honda Odyssey (BYBA)
* 2003–2004 Honda Accord (MAYA)
* 2003–2004 Honda Accord (MCLA)
* 2003–2004 Acura MDX (MDKA)
* 2005 Honda Accord (BAYA)
* 2005 Honda Accord (BCLA)


So ..are you just saying that trans maintenance in a Honda is just STUPID and a waste of time and money ..period??


Okay, folks, just lay down and surrender to the futility of your situation. Your Honda is going to bone you ...sooner or later.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
98-02 Accord V6-- lots of failures, but possibly a bit less than the TL
99 TL- Better than the 00-03 CL/TL, but hardly reliable
00-03 CL/TL- junk.
99-01 Odyssey- junk
02-03 Odyssey- usually OK, but not perfect
03 Accord V6- same as 02-03 Odyssey
01-02 MDX- Torque converter problems?
98-02 Accord 4-cyl-- some last, some don't. Real [censored].


Hmmmm
54.gif


Can you do some overlay on how the H5 in the TL ..that is going to grenade sooner or later ..fits into the list you gave me??

That is, it would appear that it wasn't in many of the cars that you cite ..at least in all of the years that you accredit it too.

Wiki

The H5 is Honda's first 5-speed automatic transmission.

Applications:

* 2000 Acura TL (M7WA)
* 2001–2003 Acura CL (BGFA)
* 2001–2003 Acura CL (MGFA)
* 2001–2003 Acura TL (B7WA)
* 2001 Acura MDX (MGHA)
* 2002–2003 Acura RSX (MRMA)
* 2002 Acura MDX (BGHA)
* 2002 Honda Odyssey (BYBA)
* 2003–2004 Honda Accord (MAYA)
* 2003–2004 Honda Accord (MCLA)
* 2003–2004 Acura MDX (MDKA)
* 2005 Honda Accord (BAYA)
* 2005 Honda Accord (BCLA)


So ..are you just saying that trans maintenance in a Honda is just STUPID and a waste of time and money ..period??


Okay, folks, just lay down and surrender to the futility of your situation. Your Honda is going to bone you ...sooner or later.





Well... you wouldn't want to not do the maintenance (double negative alert) just so that when they do grenade Honda would have no excuse for replacing. But if I was looking to buy a used Honda, that list for sure is what I would avoid, and is what I avoided on my current bought used accord.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

Hmmmm
54.gif


Can you do some overlay on how the H5 in the TL ..that is going to grenade sooner or later ..fits into the list you gave me??

That is, it would appear that it wasn't in many of the cars that you cite ..at least in all of the years that you accredit it too.

So ..are you just saying that trans maintenance in a Honda is just STUPID and a waste of time and money ..period??


Okay, folks, just lay down and surrender to the futility of your situation. Your Honda is going to bone you ...sooner or later.





Sorry, I should have indicated which model years had the 5-speed automatic.

Only the 2000-2003 Model Year Acura TL and CL and the 2001-2002 Model Year MDX had the problematic 5-speed automatics. The rest of the 5-speed automatics seem to be fine.

On the problematic 5-speed autos, there's no reason to change the fluid more often than what is required by the owner's manual as the unit usually lived an unusually short life.
 
Back on topic, I've decided to go for Honda ATF and UPS might deliver my oil this afternoon.

I ordered 9 quarts for 3x drain/refill, Im not really sure how long (miles) would be the intervals for those 9 quarts???


Thanks guys!
 
Originally Posted By: Loopie
Back on topic, I've decided to go for Honda ATF and UPS might deliver my oil this afternoon.

I ordered 9 quarts for 3x drain/refill, Im not really sure how long (miles) would be the intervals for those 9 quarts???


Thanks guys!


So you got enough for 3 drain and refills, good deal.

One way you could do it would be to do back to back D and R's, and then wait on the third for a while. Just do a D and R, then drive the car around for a few miles to make sure it mixes well, then do another one right away. That would change over 50% of the fluid, which would help a lot :)
 
Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: Loopie
Back on topic, I've decided to go for Honda ATF and UPS might deliver my oil this afternoon.

I ordered 9 quarts for 3x drain/refill, Im not really sure how long (miles) would be the intervals for those 9 quarts???


Thanks guys!


So you got enough for 3 drain and refills, good deal.

One way you could do it would be to do back to back D and R's, and then wait on the third for a while. Just do a D and R, then drive the car around for a few miles to make sure it mixes well, then do another one right away. That would change over 50% of the fluid, which would help a lot :)


I did my Saturn Vue (Honda transmission) with a whole case in one afternoon. Drain and fill 3 quarts drive around for awhile, come back to garage and repeat until the case was used up.
 
I did 2x drain and refills today, the magnetic bold has alot of black stuff esp in the first one. I might gonna do the last d&r next week as hate2work suggested.

I did instantly feel the smooth shifts rightafter the first d&r!!!


Thanks
 
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