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#1264166 - 10/23/08 08:24 AM Cartridge versus spin on
BTLew81 Online   content


Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1084
Loc: Illinois
Hi,
My 2007 Mazda3 2.3l has the cartridge filter on the bottom of the engine. Many folks I know have done the spin on conversion. It has crossed my mind, but for various reasons, I have not yet done it.

Any thoughts on this?
_________________________
2013 Jetta TDI Premium
Oil: Factory Fill
Filter: VW OEM
Next Up: PU Euro L 5w30/OEM Filter

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#1264170 - 10/23/08 08:33 AM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: BTLew81]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33242
Loc: New Jersey
I prefer cartridges. Less waste, and the can often be cleaner.

I especially prefer cartridges mounted on the top of the engines, which is quite smart, IMO.

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#1264179 - 10/23/08 08:47 AM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: JHZR2]
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 6592
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
My CX 7 has the same cartridge as the Mazda 3. The first time I changed it, I found it to be more of a hassle with the new O-rings and more manipulation required. After several changes, I now find it easer but, it still takes about 10 minutes longer to change than a spin-on. I do like the fact that it is considerably more environmentally friendly. I will not change over to a spin-on. I think we are not getting the full value as the cartridge costs about the same ( dealer cost or major brand). I pay about $5.25 for a Wix cartridge and $5.15 for a wix spin-on. The cartridge type alsos allows me to visually inspect the filter media for engine or filter problems, without the need to cut the canned filter apart.
_________________________
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#1264183 - 10/23/08 09:00 AM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: Eddie]
BTLew81 Online   content


Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1084
Loc: Illinois
Good points. I've been using the Motorcraft filter, at WM, for about $3.50. For my 5k changes, it works well, and seems to hold up nicely.
_________________________
2013 Jetta TDI Premium
Oil: Factory Fill
Filter: VW OEM
Next Up: PU Euro L 5w30/OEM Filter

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#1264283 - 10/23/08 11:20 AM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: BTLew81]
globey Offline


Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 983
Loc: MS
I have the 2.3L in my Fusion and find the cartridge changes easy. I've done about five on my car since I've had it.

A time saver for me is not removing the small o-ring every time. I don't use the small plug, so why do I have to change that ring out every time?

Honestly, I like the cartridge for most of the reasons above. Less waste, I can view the filter and I have an abundance of quality filters that I got for low sale prices (K&N, Pure Ones, etc).

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#1264653 - 10/23/08 08:46 PM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: globey]
tom slick Offline


Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 8512
Loc: Central Coast, Calif.
I don't really see a benefit to switching to a cartridge. it will also void your warranty on the engine.
_________________________
You get what you pay for...
So keep in mind how much you paid for this advice.

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#1264730 - 10/23/08 10:10 PM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: tom slick]
globey Offline


Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 983
Loc: MS
 Originally Posted By: tom slick
I don't really see a benefit to switching to a cartridge. it will also void your warranty on the engine.


I'm assuming you meant spin-on rather than cartridge. His Mazda/Ford 2.3 came with a cartridge filter.

I agree...stick with the cartridge.

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#1264783 - 10/23/08 11:11 PM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: globey]
tom slick Offline


Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 8512
Loc: Central Coast, Calif.
oops, yeah I mean no advantage to a spin on.
_________________________
You get what you pay for...
So keep in mind how much you paid for this advice.

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#1264790 - 10/23/08 11:18 PM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: tom slick]
labman Offline


Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 8711
Loc: Nothern USA
I like everything about the well placed cartridge filter on my Cavalier Ecotec except the filter price. I paid the dealer $8 for the first one. I picked up a Purlator one at at AAP recently for $2.50. I can change oil without ramps now.

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#1265131 - 10/24/08 11:12 AM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: labman]
kkreit01 Offline


Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 3701
Loc: Olathe, KS
^ If that were the case on the Fusion/Mazda, it wouldn't be bad either. However, the cartridge filter is located underneath. You first have to get out your 10mm wrench to remove some bolts for the plastic shield. You then have to locate your special cap filter wrench to remove the plactic cap. Upon loosening, quickly grab your pan, because oil starts dripping/pouring all over -- and on the main bottom engine shield. Before you put everything back on, you now have dirty oil all over the filter cap -- which you must clean off. This also assumes you didn't actually remove the oil filter plug (another source of potential metal-->plastic thread failure). I had my Fusion for 1.5 years, and never removed the oil filter drain plug. Make sure to grab your torque wrench, and set it to 20 ft-lbs before tightening the plastic cap.

Overall, "cartridge" was just a pain compared to any other vehicles I've owned (many). Had I kept the Fusion longer, I would have swapped to spin-on. Yes -- cartridge is better for the environment, and it's nice to be able to see the filter media. It's typically not more expensive, but to me, it's a pain. There's much more to clean, and more potential for problems (in this application).
_________________________
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.6: 5w30 M1/Napa Gold filter
2013 Chrysler 200S 3.6: 5w20 TA/Napa Gold filter

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#1265247 - 10/24/08 01:48 PM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: kkreit01]
globey Offline


Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 983
Loc: MS
 Originally Posted By: kkreit01
^ If that were the case on the Fusion/Mazda, it wouldn't be bad either. However, the cartridge filter is located underneath. You first have to get out your 10mm wrench to remove some bolts for the plastic shield.


My 2.3L Fusion doesn't have a shield to remove.

 Originally Posted By: kkreit01
^ You then have to locate your special cap filter wrench to remove the plactic cap.


Yes, it's called getting the tools before you begin a job. I don't see how that's a difficult task. I suppose getting a funnel is difficult too?

 Originally Posted By: kkreit01
Upon loosening, quickly grab your pan, because oil starts dripping/pouring all over -- and on the main bottom engine shield.


No shield.

 Originally Posted By: kkreit01
Before you put everything back on, you now have dirty oil all over the filter cap -- which you must clean off. This also assumes you didn't actually remove the oil filter plug (another source of potential metal-->plastic thread failure). I had my Fusion for 1.5 years, and never removed the oil filter drain plug. Make sure to grab your torque wrench, and set it to 20 ft-lbs before tightening the plastic cap.


So, don't overtighten? Check...you still run the risk of overtightening a metal cannister. Then, if you can't get the spin on off because you tightened it too much, you have to "locate" an oil filter wrench. Too many needed steps.

Honestly, it's not as hard as people make it out...plus the cartridge is on the bottom, in this case, and none of my engine components get dirtied up from the oil. Remove cap/cartridge, replace cartridge/o-ring, remove drain plug. Put cap on, replace drain plug and fill. Does it take a few extra minutes? Maybe...but I've done about five of them and I have it down pretty good. In the end, the benefits outweigh the costs...at least to me.


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#1266460 - 10/25/08 10:54 PM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: globey]
ekpolk Offline
The Regenerator


Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 8881
Loc: Pensacola FL
I thought cartridges would be a nice idea, until I changed the one on my wife's Avalon. I'd love to meet the genius who decided to stick it on the bottom of the engine. Two caps, two sets of O-rings, and you still have to be on your back anyway. I'd much, much rather have a spin-on for this car, or have it mounted up top like some other designs.

Labman: great to see you back, don't be such a stranger!
_________________________
09 Camry Hybrid, Black (M1 5w-20, std flavor).
07 Avalon XLS, Cassis Pearl (GC 0w-30).
04 Prius, Black (GC -- 0w-30).

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#1266472 - 10/25/08 11:14 PM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: ekpolk]
Smokescreen Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 2256
Loc: Alberta, Canada
so if the spin ons had an anti drain-back valve do these cartridge setups have a similar internal setup that never wears out? I have an 09 Corolla with a cartridge, just wondering how it all works.
_________________________
09 Corolla 1.8L-212Kkms(133Kmi)-PP,Denso
05 LeSabre 3.8L-138Kkms(86Kmi)-F1,Baldwin
03 Sierra 2500 6.0L-186Kkms(116Kmi)-PYB,Baldwin

All with mpg > EPA

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#1266586 - 10/26/08 08:43 AM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: Smokescreen]
IndyFan Offline


Registered: 06/16/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Danville, Indiana
 Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
so if the spin ons had an anti drain-back valve do these cartridge setups have a similar internal setup that never wears out? I have an 09 Corolla with a cartridge, just wondering how it all works.


I understand that GM engines all have anti-drainback built-in, even in the spin-on designs. I could be wrong, but I remember reading this somewhere.
_________________________
Dan
12 Buick Enclave 3.6 12k
08 Jeep Wrangler 3.8 82k
08 Chevrolet Express 6.0 130k
01 Ford F150 Crew 5.4 56k
99 Mercedes-Benz E430 Sport 55k

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#1267423 - 10/27/08 10:37 AM Re: Cartridge versus spin on [Re: globey]
kkreit01 Offline


Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 3701
Loc: Olathe, KS
 Originally Posted By: globey
 Originally Posted By: kkreit01
^ If that were the case on the Fusion/Mazda, it wouldn't be bad either. However, the cartridge filter is located underneath. You first have to get out your 10mm wrench to remove some bolts for the plastic shield.


My 2.3L Fusion doesn't have a shield to remove.

 Originally Posted By: kkreit01
^ You then have to locate your special cap filter wrench to remove the plactic cap.


Yes, it's called getting the tools before you begin a job. I don't see how that's a difficult task. I suppose getting a funnel is difficult too?

 Originally Posted By: kkreit01
Upon loosening, quickly grab your pan, because oil starts dripping/pouring all over -- and on the main bottom engine shield.


No shield.

 Originally Posted By: kkreit01
Before you put everything back on, you now have dirty oil all over the filter cap -- which you must clean off. This also assumes you didn't actually remove the oil filter plug (another source of potential metal-->plastic thread failure). I had my Fusion for 1.5 years, and never removed the oil filter drain plug. Make sure to grab your torque wrench, and set it to 20 ft-lbs before tightening the plastic cap.


So, don't overtighten? Check...you still run the risk of overtightening a metal cannister. Then, if you can't get the spin on off because you tightened it too much, you have to "locate" an oil filter wrench. Too many needed steps.

Honestly, it's not as hard as people make it out...plus the cartridge is on the bottom, in this case, and none of my engine components get dirtied up from the oil. Remove cap/cartridge, replace cartridge/o-ring, remove drain plug. Put cap on, replace drain plug and fill. Does it take a few extra minutes? Maybe...but I've done about five of them and I have it down pretty good. In the end, the benefits outweigh the costs...at least to me.



You're right -- it's not that hard. It was actually easier than I expected after reading all the horror stories. For me, it was just a pain compared to spin-on. Yes, a pain for selfesh reasons. I never had any issues, and I used all the correct tools. What year is your Fusion? Did you buy it new? I thought they all had a shield on the bottom? It would be much better without it, but I assuming it helps for airflow -- gas mileage.
_________________________
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.6: 5w30 M1/Napa Gold filter
2013 Chrysler 200S 3.6: 5w20 TA/Napa Gold filter

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