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#1241976 - 09/23/08 09:39 PM Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob?
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1926
Loc: NJ
This is not my WRX, the uoa was posted on nasioc.com:

Stock car, OEM air filter, Purolator Pure one oil filter, lots of stop and go driving during the daily commute. M1 5W-30 went in again.

Miles on oil: 4,900
Miles on motor: 70,700

Element Value (Universal Average)
ALUMINUM 2 (3)
CHROMIUM 0 (1)
IRON 6 (8)
COPPER 18 (5)
LEAD 5 (5)
TIN 0 (1)
MOLYBDENUM 87 (73)
NICKEL 0 (0)
MANGANESE 0 (1)
SILVER 0 (0)
TITANIUM 0 (0)
POTASSIUM 1 (1)
BORON 40 (65)
SILICON 13 (9)
SODIUM 6 (8)
CALCIUM 2552 (2401)
MAGNESIUM 14 (113)
PHOSPHORUS 636 (730)
ZINC 830 (870)
BARIUM 0 (0)

Property Value (Should Be)
SUS Viscosity @ 210F 57.6 (55-62)
cSt Viscosity @ 100C 9.54 (8.8-11.1)
Flashpoint F 375 (>365)
Fuel % <0.5 (<2.0)
Antifreeze % 0 (0)
Water % 0 (0)
Insolubles % 0.2 (<0.6)

Copper was the only wear metal above average in the first sample from your Subaru. This shows excess wear at a brass/bronze part, such as a bushing. We have noticed many Subarus running Mobil one have high copper. We don't normally think that oil brand makes a difference, but maybe in this engine it does. Try something else to see. No harmful contaminants were found in the sample and the viscosity of the oil read normally. Universal averages for the 2.0L are based on an oil run of ~4,700 miles. Wear other than copper looks good. Check back for another look.

My take:
Copper could be from the oil cooler. I know you normally can't draw too many conclusions on a baseline uoa, but the comments from Blackstone are interesting.

I recommended a more robust M1 (TDT, HM), GC or Amsoil. Any other comments or recommendations?

Thanks,
Dennis
_________________________
'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40

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#1241987 - 09/23/08 09:48 PM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: bluesubie]
Audi Junkie Offline


Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 11247
Loc: PA
afaik, high Fe and Cu is normally addressed by raising the visc. M1 0w-40 or GC would be the winter fill I'd look for that car in NJ.
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#1241990 - 09/23/08 09:50 PM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: bluesubie]
DmanWho Offline


Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 578
Loc: Oregon
The Valvoline MaxLife might be a good, readily available, off-the-shelf oil, alternative to try...

On the "boutique" list, how about the Schaeffer's. Either the 7,000 or 9,000 versions. There's always RL too.

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#1242011 - 09/23/08 10:25 PM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: bluesubie]
timeau Offline


Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 246
Loc: Maryland
 Originally Posted By: bluesubie
I recommended a more robust M1 (TDT, HM), GC or Amsoil. Any other comments or recommendations?

No, more robust Mobil1 HM will not help. I had exactly same issue with high Cu of 15 ppm on my Outback XT after 5600 miles (engine is same). I used to use M1 HM 10w30, so try something else.
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#1242178 - 09/24/08 07:48 AM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: timeau]
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1926
Loc: NJ
I always forget about Max Life because I've never seen the synthetic, only the blend. Just like I've never seen Rotella 10w-30. Well, I think I saw that once in MD or VA.

-Dennis
_________________________
'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40

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#1242188 - 09/24/08 08:04 AM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: bluesubie]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29316
Loc: NJ
So they are saying M1 shows higher Cu in subaru's?
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2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - Castrol 0w20/dealer oil
2015 Mazda 3i SV 6spd MT - Mobil 1 EP 0w20

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#1242289 - 09/24/08 11:02 AM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: buster]
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1926
Loc: NJ
That's what it looks like they're saying. Although maybe referring specifically to turbos.

I know for the Subaru 2.5L Universal Averages, Blackstone does not separate n/a and turbo.

-Dennis
_________________________
'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40

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#1242304 - 09/24/08 11:24 AM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: bluesubie]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29316
Loc: NJ
I went back and looked at a few UOA's and some of the M1/Subaru turbo's did have higher Cu. But it wasn't conclusive based on the 3 I looked at. Some oils have a particular chemistry that can show higher values, such as Redline/Pb.

I'm really curious if it's just M1 and why it's showing higher Cu.
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2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - Castrol 0w20/dealer oil
2015 Mazda 3i SV 6spd MT - Mobil 1 EP 0w20

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#1242324 - 09/24/08 11:47 AM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: buster]
TeeDub Offline


Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 752
Loc: NY
No great mystery here, the oil's simply too thin for this application. I'd try Delvac 1 if you want to stick with a Mobil synthetic. You could also run the Mobil 1/15w-50 since that's easier to find.
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#1242334 - 09/24/08 11:58 AM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: buster]
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1926
Loc: NJ
Oh, for comparison this is a 2004 WRX which has the 2.0L.

buster, I was thinking about RL's comments that you posted in this thread .

I'm no uoa expert but, I think these cars get better results when not using an Energy Conserving oil if they're driven moderately hard. AndyH got moderately higher wear in his STI when switching from GC to PP 5w-30.

Some of the best M1 Subaru turbo uoa's that I've seen are a lot of highway driving ("Dave" on here, IIRC) or a guy on nasioc adding two quarts of 15w-50 to 3 qts of 10w-30.

-Dennis



Edited by bluesubie (09/24/08 11:59 AM)
_________________________
'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40

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#1242336 - 09/24/08 12:00 PM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: TeeDub]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29316
Loc: NJ
 Originally Posted By: TeeDub
No great mystery here, the oil's simply too thin for this application. I'd try Delvac 1 if you want to stick with a Mobil synthetic. You could also run the Mobil 1/15w-50 since that's easier to find.


How is that impacting the Cu? Just curiouis. Thanks
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - Castrol 0w20/dealer oil
2015 Mazda 3i SV 6spd MT - Mobil 1 EP 0w20

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#1242467 - 09/24/08 02:54 PM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: buster]
TeeDub Offline


Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 752
Loc: NY
Buster,

There's no reason to suspect chemical leaching of copper from the oil cooler. This engine already has 70,000+ miles on it and this is only a 5k run, so there's plenty of TBN reserve.

I think the copper may be from the turbocharger bearings, and the Pb (main bearing overlays) is also high, hence the oil looks too thin for this particular engine under these particular operating conditions.

Make sense?
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NYSOFMIND

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#1242561 - 09/24/08 04:59 PM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: TeeDub]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29316
Loc: NJ
Thanks TD.
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - Castrol 0w20/dealer oil
2015 Mazda 3i SV 6spd MT - Mobil 1 EP 0w20

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#1242655 - 09/24/08 06:47 PM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: buster]
SilverGGA Offline


Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 322
Loc: San Jose, CA
Saw the thread on nasioc.com. Check out my 2004 WRX analysis. IMHO, I do not think Mobil is the cause of high copper. Unfortunately, neither of the oils I used are available. My suggestion is to give Mobil 1 HM 10w-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 5w-40 a try. Preference is Mobil 1 HM 10w-40 since this WRX already has 70k miles.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post253814

I am personally using M1 0w-40 now but have not had any analysis done lately.
_________________________
04 Subaru WRX M1 HM 10w30 Extra S OEM Filter 109k
11 Honda Pilot LX PU 5w20 OEM Filter 52k
05 Mazda 6i 126k
97 Acura Integra LS 147k
95 VW Passat GLX VR6

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#1242700 - 09/24/08 07:35 PM Re: Mobil1 5W-30, Subaru WRX, 4,900 miles, Cu prob? [Re: SilverGGA]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 28072
Loc: Ontario, Canada
The TDT oil has proven itself time and time again. VERY robust formula.....
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