VW507.00 versus CJ-4

[kwantam]

First, apologies if this topic has been beaten to death elsewhere; I searched and didn't find anything very relevant.

The understanding I've gleaned from a few days' research is that VW507.00 lowers the sulfated ash, sulfur, and phosphorous limits versus VW501.01 for the sake of exhaust particulate filters. I've read the same thing about CJ-4, and Mobil in particular now makes CJ-4 Delvac-1 ESP which is expressly intended for particulate filter applications.

Are these two specifications truly mutually exclusive? Does a VW507.00 oil have (or expressly lack) something that the CJ-4 doesn't? Disregarding the question of warranty for now, can one make a definitive statement from these two standards whether they are cross-compatible, or even the weaker claim that it's _possible_ to formulate a CJ-4 to meet VW507.00?

 

[UG_Passat]

yes, the 2 are mutually exclusive. 507 is tailored for passenger-car applications, not heavy duty truck applications--- if anything, I would expect to see a API CF rating on it

 

[TeeDub]

The additive treat levels for CJ-4 are typically too high to meet the SAPS limits of VW 507.00 and the basestock blends (for the XW-40's), are too thick to meet the fuel efficiency requirements for the VW product..

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: TeeDub
The additive treat levels for CJ-4 are typically too high to meet the SAPS limits of VW 507.00 and the basestock blends (for the XW-40's), are too thick to meet the fuel efficiency requirements for the VW product..


That sums it up OK.

 

[kwantam]

Originally Posted By: TeeDub
The additive treat levels for CJ-4 are typically too high to meet the SAPS limits of VW 507.00 and the basestock blends (for the XW-40's), are too thick to meet the fuel efficiency requirements for the VW product..


Okay, the base stock issue seems pretty clear.

Regarding the SAPS, is it _required_ to be high enough to violate 507.00, or is it just typically that way? For example, Delvac 1 ESP is formulated with particulate trap exhausts in mind, so presumably the SAPS levels are lower than a typical CJ-4. Is it nevertheless the case that they _must_ be too high for 507.00 because they conform to CJ-4?

I suppose if the answer to this isn't clear, I'm curious enough about this that I'd be willing to spring for VOAs of Mobil 1 ESP (507.00) versus Delvac 1 ESP (CJ-4).

 

[TeeDub]

507.00 (more correctly ACEA C3-04) Limits:

Sulfated Ash (SA) < 0.8%
Phorphorus between 700-900 ppm
Sulfur < 0.3%

CJ-4 Limits:

SA < 1.0%
P < 1200 ppm
Sulfur < 0.4%

The CJ-4 formulations I've seen are formulated right @ that 1.0% limit on sulfated ash, in order to maximize the detergent and ZDDP levels within the required chemical "box" and maintain OCI's and wear protection for over the road trucks. ALL the CJ-4 formulations are technically compatible with particle traps, but the additive treat levels are significantly higher than SOTA, automotive light diesel oils (507.00 and 505.01). Of course mitigating this is that the significantly thicker, CJ-4 rated HDEO's should reduce oil consumption, relative to a 0w-30 or 5w-30, VW 507.00 product. So how much stuff is actually going out the exhaust on a per/mile basis is open to debate.

Plenty of testing of both these oils on the http://www.tdiclub.com forum if you want to compare additive levels...

 

[wjdell]

Anything =
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205814

 

[TeeDub]

VW 507.00 is formulated to maximize fuel efficiency in Europe, where fuel prices are extremely high. The CJ-4 oils are formulated to minimize wear/deposits and allow OTR truck engines to run 1,000,000 miles before the first rebuild.

Your choice...