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#1217344 - 08/15/08 11:11 PM Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ?
sunfire Offline


Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1574
Loc: Ca, US
I found this interesting TSB released by Toyota regarding their T-IV ATF:

http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2000/Service%20Bulletins/tc001t02%20ATF%20Fluid%20Requirements.pdf

TSB: TC001-02
Title:
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID REQUIREMENTS
Models:
All ’00 – ’02 Models & ’03 Corolla & Matrix


MODEL----- 2000 -----|---- 2001 ----|---- 2002 ----|---- 2003
Corolla A131L, A245E | A131L, A245E | A131L, A245E | A245E
ATF----- DexronIII --|-- DexronIII -|-- DexronIII -|--- T-IV


Look at the row for the Corolla. The columns are the Aisin automatic transmission model numbers. Toyota recommends Dexron III in the A245E AT before and including 2002. However, Toyota goes to recommend Type T–IV in the SAME... I repeat the SAME 2003 Aisin A245E AT. There might be some very minor improvements in the AT from year to year. But I doubt anything significant enough to require an ATF with entirely different characteristics. Which leads me to conclude that T-IV is perhaps a higher grade Dexron III. I am speculating that they did this so they can promote their "life time ATF" to raise the Corolla value's because of less maintenance. And would also explain Toyota's naming convention (4 comes after 3) for their improved Dexron III+ ATF.

Here are a few after market ATFs that claim meets T-IV specs and the reason they meet T-IV is because they are already meet Dexron III specs... again this statement is sepeculation:

Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF

Mobil Multi-Vehicle

Mobil ATF 3309 (approved against Type T-IV, JWS 3309)

CASTROL Import Multi-Vehicle

PENNZOIL MULTI-VEHICLE

If the above is true then that would leave a lot full synthetic and synthetic blend alternatives for T-IV ATF users. I believe T-IV is still a conventional as people here and on other forums have stated.

Do YOU agree with what I said?


Edited by sunfire (08/15/08 11:17 PM)
_________________________
2005 Toyota Corolla LE | 65,000 | PYB 5W-30

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#1217367 - 08/15/08 11:40 PM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: sunfire]
sunfire Offline


Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1574
Loc: Ca, US
I forgot to list everyone's favorite alternative ATF which does meet Dexron III and Toyota Type T-IV (JWS 3309) specs:

AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid



Edited by sunfire (08/15/08 11:41 PM)
_________________________
2005 Toyota Corolla LE | 65,000 | PYB 5W-30

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#1217405 - 08/16/08 01:00 AM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: sunfire]
onion Offline


Registered: 02/04/07
Posts: 2097
Loc: kansastan
Oh Cheezus... here we go.
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#1217458 - 08/16/08 05:34 AM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: onion]
crinkles Offline


Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 5512
Loc: Australia
I don't know... there's a lot of extrapolation from one small observation in there... I don't necessarily agree that Toyota should keep its customers to its own brand, but for what I pay for it it is really good value. down here it is close to the cheapest stuff... the aftermarket names claiming to meet T-IV specs are more expensive than T-IV from the dealer, so why bother?
_________________________
2002 Toyota Camry 2.4L - Castrol GTX HM 15w-50
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#1217496 - 08/16/08 08:00 AM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: crinkles]
bmwtechguy Offline


Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 2540
Loc: South Carolina
Er, because you may want a better fluid? If I want a basic T-IV fluid that costs less than the dealer fluid, I will use one of 2 SuperTech ATF's at WM that list the spec. Otherwise I use Mobil 1 or Amsoil. All work very well.

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#1217546 - 08/16/08 10:07 AM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: sunfire]
Curtis Newton Offline


Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 708
Loc: Colorado
 Originally Posted By: sunfire
Which leads me to conclude that T-IV is perhaps a higher grade Dexron III. I am speculating that they did this so they can promote their "life time ATF" to raise the Corolla value's because of less maintenance. And would also explain Toyota's naming convention (4 comes after 3) for their improved Dexron III+ ATF.


Perhaps I am not following the paragraph above, but Type-IV is not a lifetime fluid. The Toyota WS (believe it stands for World Standard) is the fluid they claim is good for the life of the tranny.
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#1217741 - 08/16/08 02:24 PM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: onion]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 6303
Loc: southeast US
 Originally Posted By: onion
Oh Cheezus... here we go.


here we go what?

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#1217744 - 08/16/08 02:32 PM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: crinkles]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 6303
Loc: southeast US
 Originally Posted By: crinkles
I don't know... there's a lot of extrapolation from one small observation in there... I don't necessarily agree that Toyota should keep its customers to its own brand, but for what I pay for it it is really good value. down here it is close to the cheapest stuff... the aftermarket names claiming to meet T-IV specs are more expensive than T-IV from the dealer, so why bother?


Well, T-IV is dino oil with dubious quality (gray color in 20000-30000 miles). Most replacements are synth with proven quality.

I like this info. I have left over Mobil 1 ATF from my previous car. I will go ahead and use it in my Corolla in the next ATF change (drain and refill I do every 30000 miles).

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#1217819 - 08/16/08 05:32 PM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: friendly_jacek]
NHHEMI Offline


Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 5726
Loc: NH
Royal Purple MaxATF also handles T-IV. I will run it in my tranny that calls for T-IV when I have the fluid changed.
_________________________
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#1218154 - 08/17/08 08:54 AM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: NHHEMI]
Char Baby Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 8564
Loc: Rochester NY
Well, let's look at a couple of things here first.

1) The 2003 Corolla is the newer version of the Corolla. 2002 was the last year of the Corolla/Prism versions. So maybe Toyota made some changes to the Corolla/Matrix/Vibe tranny to require T-IV.

2) Mobil 1 is no longer DexronIII/Mercon, it's Mercon V now at least in my neck of the woods. And the bottle that Im holding in my hand as Im writing this doesn't say anythinhg about being used in a Toyota as a replacement for T-IV but can probably be used in Toyota auto trannys using Dexron.

I haven't seen any new Mobil 1 syn atf in my area that states what sunfire is saying. I do beleive sunfire and I would like to see/use this Mobil 1.
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#1218171 - 08/17/08 09:41 AM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: Char Baby]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 15594
Loc: Upstate NY
According to the Mobil 1 website their Mobil 1 ATF does not mention anything about Toyota T-IV so it should not be used. End of discussion.

Amsoil ATF does mention T-IV and should be an excellent choice if you want a top tier full synthetic.
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#1218314 - 08/17/08 02:27 PM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: Char Baby]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 6303
Loc: southeast US
 Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Well, let's look at a couple of things here first.

1) The 2003 Corolla is the newer version of the Corolla. 2002 was the last year of the Corolla/Prism versions. So maybe Toyota made some changes to the Corolla/Matrix/Vibe tranny to require T-IV.

2) Mobil 1 is no longer DexronIII/Mercon, it's Mercon V now at least in my neck of the woods. And the bottle that Im holding in my hand as Im writing this doesn't say anythinhg about being used in a Toyota as a replacement for T-IV but can probably be used in Toyota auto trannys using Dexron.

I haven't seen any new Mobil 1 syn atf in my area that states what sunfire is saying. I do beleive sunfire and I would like to see/use this Mobil 1.


I have 2003 corolla. The changes in engine mostly dealt with oil consumption (very common in 1998-2002 corollas) such as new oil rings and oil holes. I doubt there were significant changes in tranny, except for software and shifting points. Possible optimized for the new fluid.

As for Mobil 1 ATF suitable for T-IV is shown here:
http://www.mobil.com//USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSENPVLMOMobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.asp

I doubt the formula changed regardless what is printed on the bottle.

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#1218316 - 08/17/08 02:28 PM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: Donald]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 6303
Loc: southeast US
 Originally Posted By: Donald
According to the Mobil 1 website their Mobil 1 ATF does not mention anything about Toyota T-IV so it should not be used. End of discussion.


It's not end of the discussion if you read here:
http://www.mobil.com//USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSENPVLMOMobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.asp

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#1218433 - 08/17/08 06:37 PM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: Donald]
dorkiedoode Offline


Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 319
Loc: los angeles
 Originally Posted By: Donald
According to the Mobil 1 website their Mobil 1 ATF does not mention anything about Toyota T-IV so it should not be used. End of discussion.

Amsoil ATF does mention T-IV and should be an excellent choice if you want a top tier full synthetic.


 Quote:
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is also suitable for use in vehicles that specify the following fluid requirements:

Audi G 052 025-A2, G 052 162-A1
BMW LA2634
Esso LT 71141
ETL-7045E, ETL-8072B, N402
Ford* MERCON*, MERCON V, MERCON LV
All 2005 and earlier GM vehicles**
Honda ATF-Z1*
Hyundai SP-II, SP-III
Idemitsu K17
JWS 3309
Kia SP-II, SP-III
MAN 339F, V1, V2, Z1, Z2, Z3
Mazda ATF-III, ATF-MV
Mercedes-Benz 236.1, 236.2, 236.5, 236.6, 236.7, 236.9
Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II, SP-III
Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, Matic-K
Subaru ATF
Toyota T-III, T-IV
Voith 55.6335.XX (G607, G1363),
Volvo 97340
ZF TE-ML 03D, 04D, 09, 14A, 14B, 16L, 17C


?


Edited by dorkiedoode (08/17/08 06:42 PM)
_________________________
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1999 honda accord exl v6
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#1218479 - 08/17/08 07:43 PM Re: Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ? [Re: friendly_jacek]
mikered30 Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1348
Loc: PA
 Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
 Originally Posted By: Donald
According to the Mobil 1 website their Mobil 1 ATF does not mention anything about Toyota T-IV so it should not be used. End of discussion.


It's not end of the discussion if you read here:
http://www.mobil.com//USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSENPVLMOMobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.asp


Nice find, from what I remember, M1 ATF was not always a replacement for T-IV. Is this a new formulation? Who will be the first to try it?

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