Amsoil DEO 5w40 04 F250 PSD 6250 miles on oil

[Quick_lude]

My driving habits haven't changed since my previous analysis. Still doing the hwy run but the fuel contamination went up. I didn't change the filter after my last interval with ACD since it wasn't that long, not sure if that affected results much.

Lead is up though.

Iron per mile is same as my last 5w40 interval.
On the upside the viscosity is still around 11, will extend to 12,000kms on the next interval. Curiuosly, the TBN is 9.2, maybe a lab error?

Code:
XD-3 Delvac Castrol XD-3 XD-3 XD-3 XD-3 XD-3 AmsoilDEO AmsoilACD AmsoilDEO

x 0w40 15w40 15w40 0w30 0w30 0w30 15w40 0w30 5w40 30/10w30 5w40

Total KM's 14000km 22000km 28400km 37100km 47000km 55000 63700 72400 160500km 164500km 174500km

Time on Fluid 8000km 8000km 6400km 8700km 9900km 8000 8700km 8700km 8000km 4000km 10000km

Time on Filter 8000km 8000km 6400km 8700km 9900km 8000 8700km 8700km 8000km 4000km 14000km

Fluid Maint Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed

Filter Maint Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed Changed NotChanged Changed

Iron (Fe) 45 39 50 33 27 24 21 19 8.5 5.9 9.9

Lead (Pb) 1.2 0.7 0.3 0.8 1.1 0.5 1 0 0.5 0.8 2.1

Silicon (Si) 64 31 20 16 14 11 8.7 8 5 4.3 5.4

Copper (Cu) 10 6 3.6 2.9 8.1 4.8 3.3 2.6 0.7 0.6 1.2

Chromium (Cr) 1.1 1.2 2 1.3 1.2 0.7 0.7 0.6 0.3 0.3 0.6

Nickel (Ni) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Titanium (Ti) 0 0 0.2 0.1 0.1 0 0.1 0 0 0.1 0.1

Silver (Ag) 0.4 0.4 0.4 0.3 0.4 0 0 0 0 0 0

Aluminum (Al) 1.3 4.3 6.3 3.2 2.9 2.6 2.2 2 0.8 1.6 2.5

Tin (Sn) 1.3 0.9 0.2 0.5 1 0.2 0.7 0 0 0 0.9

Sodium (Na) 3.4 0.8 3.1 1.8 0.5 5.6 8.7 7 1.4 1.1 3



Potassium (K) 12 4.1 5.5 2.3 2.5 1.9 3.5 2.1 0 0 0



Boron (B) 3.6 24 7 4.3 2.6 0 4.8 1.4 2 0.9 3.1

Barium (Ba) 0.7 0.3 0.6 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.2 0.2 0.1 0 0.1

Molybdenum (Mo) 0.6 27 7.2 3.2 1.2 0.7 0.9 0.6 0.1 0.5 0.5

Magnesium (Mg) 9 315 84 27 14 9.5 8.8 9.4 5.8 8.8 8.8

Calcium (Ca) 2938 2534 2819 3003 3144 3096 3048 3350 2580 3195 2749

Phosphorus (P) 1005 1099 1151 1026 1150 940 1077 1233 1050 1095 1026

Zinc (Zn) 1192 1277 1277 1213 1227 1130 1205 1376 1221 1289 1245

Sulfur (S) 3143 3313 4387 3556 3764 3526 3632 4022 3360 3669 3360

Manganese (Mn) 1 0.8 0.8 0.6 0.5 0.3 0.4 0.4 0.1 0.1 0.2

Vanadium (V) 0 0 0.1 0 0.1 0 0.1 0 0 0.1 0

Fuel(%) 3 4 3 4 5 6 5 4 1 0 3

Glycol NEG NEG NEG NEG neg NEG neg neg neg neg

Soot(%) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Oxid(PA) 63 63 163 63 68 72 68 68 181 173 194

Nitr(PA) 64 73 195 73 82 82 82 82 55 45 64

Sulf(PA) 56 56 191 56 56 56 59 59 129 126 141

ZDDP 17 18 18 18 17 16 17 18 21 22 23

TBN 8.06 8.19 7.31 7.42 7.31 8.01 6.65 8.8 5.14 8.17 9.2

Kv@100°C 9.8 12 11.1 10 8.9 9.2 9.6 10.8 11.3 10.1 11

VOA Kv@100°C 15.7 15.5 14.8 12.1 12.1 12.1 ~13.5? 12.1 15.3 10.5 15.3

 

[D-Roc]

I'm not really familiar with the values and what is high and low in regards to oxidation and sulfation...but your numbers seem a little higher over the past few changes...anything different in the way the truck was run? Looking back, those numbers were high when you ran the Castrol. I know they use a spectromoeter to read O, N, and S.... finding the particles with infrared light. Is this the same lab?
Anybody else have any ideas?

 

[dnewton3]

Well, the two previous readings (assuming correct numbers and same lab) had the fuel nicely very low. Now the fuel has crept back up, and so perhaps the Fe, Cu, Pb and such are following it? Of course, this reading was also 2.5x more mileage compared to the previous one. That certainly plays into looking at the raw numbers. Statistically, it's just not sound to draw any firm conclusions. The oil grade and mileage exposure vary so greatly it's not a valid comparison.

Not sure I understand why they post the PPM values with 1/10th's? (i.e. the Fe at 9.9) Are they able to split hairs into that fine of detail in the spectrometry? Several of the values are stated with 10ths. It surely can't be % (percent), as 9.9% of oil being Fe is absurd, so it's got to be PPM.

If you really want to understand what's going on, then stick to one oil, and stick to one mileage for sampling. These are variables you can (and should) control. Things that are more difficult to control, but at least can be tracked, are items such as fuel/coolant dilution. By "control", I mean keep constant, not select by choice.

If not, that's OK, too, but don't expect to make sense of the analysis or interpretations.

 

[pickled]

I agree with dnewton3's comments. What made you want to change to the 5w40 cj-4'ish amsoil from the ACD?

 

[Quick_lude]

Well if Dnewton bothered to remember what I said in my previous analysis thread instead of getting on his high horse again, he would remember that I chose to use the ACD for one quick interval to see how it would shear. He would also remember that I said I would go back to the DEO 5w40 and stick to it.

Also, I have a novel idea. Maybe instead of comparing this sample to the previous one with ACD, we should compare it to the sample before that with the DEO. Maybe I should delete my ACD column for your piece of mind?

Anyways, the plan is to extend the interval using the DEO and keep an eye on contamination and viscosity shear. Next time I'll go 12,000km.

 

[pickled]

Cool...I'll be watching. Many of my clients are interested in the performance of DEO. I do hope that the folks in Superior reformulate it to get even better performance. Thanks for taking the time to let us know your strategy.

 

[wjdell]

DEO is a very good oil, just look at the additive counts and then your wear rate. 2.78 ppm total wear metals per 1000 miles. That is a very good base oil. I posted a UOA of a TDI PD motor that was wearing horrible on 505.01 oil, he switched to DEO and turned it around in one interval. However, Amsoil will not support the use of this oil in TDI PD motor. DEO is like AME and one of Amsoils better products. Take a look at a VOA of this oil and you will see it performs as well or better than oils containing Boron, Mg, MoS2 and 30% higher in Zn, P, and Ca. I wish I understood why.

 

[D-Roc]

Has anyone any ideas with regards to the higher Oxidation and Sulfation he is experiencing? The numbers looks a little higher over the past couple of runs.

 

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted By: wjdell
DEO is a very good oil, just look at the additive counts and then your wear rate. 2.78 ppm total wear metals per 1000 miles. That is a very good base oil. I posted a UOA of a TDI PD motor that was wearing horrible on 505.01 oil, he switched to DEO and turned it around in one interval. However, Amsoil will not support the use of this oil in TDI PD motor. DEO is like AME and one of Amsoils better products. Take a look at a VOA of this oil and you will see it performs as well or better than oils containing Boron, Mg, MoS2 and 30% higher in Zn, P, and Ca. I wish I understood why.


I am interested as well....

 

[Quick_lude]

I think someone mentioned in my previous analysis post that this lab does not read some oils correctly, hence the higher numbers.

 

[TeeDub]

D-Roc,

The apparently high oxidation reflects the ester content of this oil and is not real. Specific types of ester generate FTIR responses very close to the wavelengths for the byproducts of oxidation. So unless the lab equipment is calibrated to deal with this, you see the high oxidation spike in the results. This response is very noticeable for Redline Oil for example....

The 0w-40 and 5w-40 shear too much for me in this engine...I'd stick with the 15w-40/AME for mile weather and restrict the DEO to the wintertime...

 

[D-Roc]

So if the high oxidation/sulfation was a result of something else, would you be seeing higher numbers elswhere?
it's good that it's a result of the esters...too bad the lab didn't take that into account.

 

[wjdell]

If you get VOA's on Amsoil DEO - Mobil Delvac ESP - S9000 - Valvoline CJ4 - you will see the additive level in DEO is much lower and it has no Boron or Magnesium. I have not seen a Rotella T CJ4 yet.

 

[TeeDub]

D-Roc,

High oxidation results in significant thickening of the oil (from insoluble polymers being formed), and high sulfation would degrade the TBN through depletion of the active detergency....This DEO sample shows no oxidative thickening and a strong TBN.

By the way, I do believe the starting TBN of this product is more like 10.0-10.5 and not the 8.0 on the spec sheet. The 5w-40 Amsoil European oil is an 8.0 TBN product and has significantly less Calcium detergent compared to DEO.

 

[Powerstroke]

Just to let you know, the DEO Amsoil 5w40 is actually not intended for turbo diesel engines, only diesel without a turbo. Your much better off with the AME or 5w30 HDD