Magnefine filter testi

[Donald]

I have some 25K miles on Amsoil ATF in my Camry with just under 200K miles. I am planning on a UOA, then installing a Magnefine, then driving some number of miles (500? 1000?) then doing another UOA.
Any ideas on how long a Magnefine filter would take to clean out the existing ATF that should be in pretty good shape.

 

[spiderbypass]

I am not sure if that test would provide information about the effectiveness of the magnefine filter. I think if you drained the transmission fluid while taking a UOA and then install the magnefine with new Amsoil ATF and run the car for another 25 K miles. Comparing the UOA now with the one 25 k miles from now might be a better comparison with regards to the magnefine filter's effectivenes at keeping less debris which could cause greater wear in the transmisison fluid.

I don't think the magnefine will specifically clean the preexisting oil. It will just prevent more debris from causing higher wear metals and such. If your UOA comes back looking good, I would run the transmission oil out longer as it is with the magnefine.

Did you have the transmisison fluid completely flushed and filled with the Amsoil ATF in the vehicle now? If you did that before, you would want to flush the system completely again before adding the new oil and magnefine filter to get a clear comparison since a drain and fill does not take tranny fluid from the torque convertor and such.

I know it wouldn't be a fair comparison, and your car sounds like it is doing well. However for complete peace of mind I would do the following. I would take a UOA now for interest and providing you a general baseline of the transmission oil after a 25K mile run. I would then put 6 ounces of Auto RX (or whatever is suggested on the latest Auto RX web page as the recommendations do change. I would run the car with the auto rx for 1000 miles or whatever they recommend now. Then I would have the ttransmission completely flushed with that T-tek machine (not sure of exact name) or whatever frank recommends. Then I would have the transmisison filled with completely new Amsoil ATF, install the magnefine filter, and add a bottle of Lubeguard Platinum to your transmission.


***This would not be great for scientific purposes because when you take another UOA in 25 thougsand miles and your transmission oil and wear metals look good, you may not know what to attribute the excellent results (It could be Auto RX treatment, excellent lubeguard platinum additive, or the addition of the magnnefine.

However, we do not live in a vacuum and you may want your car to last forever, or at least until you have an existential crisis and want a less reliable car because the Toyota's reliability only confirms your own mortality. The piece of mind that comes with aggressive preventive maintenance-otherwise knows as overkill-would be beneficial to your reliable Camry and you.

I did similar procedure with wife's 2003 Honda Accord. I had Redline D4 in transmisison then did Auto RX treatment, then had oil flushed and filled with Redline D6. I didn't like the way D6 ran in transmission so did drain and fill again and put D4 in transmisison with the Lubeguard Platinum. Her car shifts better than ever and has 102 thousand miles on it.

 

[Donald]

With only 25K on the ATF, I was not planning on having it flushed anytime soon. I thought it would be a good test as we have all heard that the top ATFs can go the distance but the wear metals build up, thus my test. I suggested to Magnefine the test I wanted to run and they provided me a Magnefine filter at no cost given I was paying for two UOAs. So at this point I do not want to change the deal I said I would do.

I would not add Lubeguard to Amsoil ATF as I sure hope it not needed and messes up a UOA.

I also think that a cooling line flush after a pan drain & refill is much better than any flush by machine (when using expensive ATF), as I do not think most places who do a flush by machine drain the and refill the pan first which mixes more fluid in the pan and they also need to purge all new fluid from the new fluid container before they start the flush, and the machine will stop with a QT or two of new expensive ATF in the new fluid container ($18 wasted).

 

[doitmyself]

Quote:
I also think that a cooling line flush after a pan drain & refill is much better than any flush by machine (when using expensive ATF), as I do not think most places who do a flush by machine drain the and refill the pan first which mixes more fluid in the pan and they also need to purge all new fluid from the new fluid container before they start the flush, and the machine will stop with a QT or two of new expensive ATF in the new fluid container ($18 wasted).



Donald........besides the point that it appears you are an excellent care giver to your car........holy cow, that is one very long sentence!!!!!!

 

[Donald]

OK, my before UOA is in the Gear oils and ATF UOA/VOA section. The aluminum was flagged as being high. Next install the Magnefine, wait a week and retest.

 

[Cup of Joe]

You have my interest. How many miles are you planning on doing?

 

[Donald]

The ATF currently has 25K on it. My plan was to install a Magnefine filter and then run a week or so and sample for a UOA. That should be a few hundred miles, enough to hopefully filter out any accumulated wear metals. My guess would be that 1 hour worth of driving should filter out any accumulated wear metals.

 

[BuickGN]

I'm very interested in this one. I'm running a magnefine too. I installed the first one after a drain and refill. Replaced it at 10K miles so I could cut it open and see what it had caught. Luckily not a whole lot so I'm running the current one to 30K.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I'm very interested in this one. I'm running a magnefine too. I installed the first one after a drain and refill. Replaced it at 10K miles so I could cut it open and see what it had caught. Luckily not a whole lot so I'm running the current one to 30K.


The side of the filter says to replace at a low mileage like 12K if I remember. I emailed the Magnefine sponsor and he said it was fine to go higher like 30K.

 

[ZZman]

I always thought those might be a magnetized filter that replaced the normal filter in the trans until I checked their site. I guess it isn't.

 

[kazual]

I have been using the Magnefine filters for quite some time now in my 2005 RAV4. On 2 occassions, I broke open the filters and poured clean fluid in reverse to see if there was debris and you would not believe the amount that it actually stopped. I currently have one on now, but will be changing over to a spin on filter set up the next change, due to costs. I saved the filter magnets and currently have one on the motor oil spin on filter. the other will go on the spin on tranny filter. The magnefines seem to collect a bunch of iron particulate, like a gray powder like grease. the filters do the job they are designed to do. they are just a bit expensive. I GIVE IT A 2 THUMBS UP!!

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: kazual
I have been using the Magnefine filters for quite some time now in my 2005 RAV4. On 2 occassions, I broke open the filters and poured clean fluid in reverse to see if there was debris and you would not believe the amount that it actually stopped. I currently have one on now, but will be changing over to a spin on filter set up the next change, due to costs. I saved the filter magnets and currently have one on the motor oil spin on filter. the other will go on the spin on tranny filter. The magnefines seem to collect a bunch of iron particulate, like a gray powder like grease. the filters do the job they are designed to do. they are just a bit expensive. I GIVE IT A 2 THUMBS UP!!


Except my UOA show excessive aluminum!

 

[kazual]

DONALD,

ARE YOU GOING TO RUN 30,000 MILE ON THE FILTER? THEY COULD PROBABLLY GO 20,000 WITH EASE. I HAVE GONE TO 10,000 AND CHANGED THEM OUT. BUT THEN AGAIN, I BABY MY RAV4. , IT ONLY HAS 33,000 MILES FOR A 2005. NOT EVEN BROKEN IN YET.

 

[Donald]

My test was to see if a Magnefine filter would filter out the various wear metals when installed. Thus a before and after test. Not sure how one could easily do a 30K test on a vehicle with and without one. But that surely would be an interesting test. But you would need several identical vehicles and several drivers (blind test).

 

[bmwtechguy]

I have a few vehicles that will go 50k miles on the same Magnefine filters and synthetic ATF. Then I will replace the filter only and tear into the old filter to see how much stuff it has in it. These units were all completely flushed out with new fluid by me. I will consider UOA on the fluid as well at that time.

 

[Donald]

Below is the link to my Magnefine before/after filter test. Unsure what to conclude as the aluminum and tin wear metals that had been flagged did not budge.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1253708#Post1253708

Now what, dump all the fluid or refresh with a gallon (which I happen to have).

 

[Jim Allen]

Because the cooler line is bypassed oil, not mainline, it will take a while for any filter to significantly reduce wear metals. Also, after looking at your UOAs, I wonder what the particle sizes were. I'm not sure of the micron rating of the Magnefine but it won't be able to catch everything. If it were my car, I'd run it for at least 10K and check again. If you have a gallon of oil, and it would reduce the "heebee-jeebee effect," on your psyche < ), go ahead and dump the oil.

 

[Donald]

With my driving, 280 miles on the Magnefine would be about 5 hours of driving. Even in the bypass loop, I would assume in 5 hours the ATF would have gone through many many times. I am guessing the flow is maybe 1 pint/minute. So with 8 1/2 QTs in the system that means in 15 minutes 8 1/2 QTs has gone through the Magnefine filter. Four cycles/hour, so in 5 hours thats 20 cycles. Obviously there is mixing of filtered and unfiltered ATF, but still I would think the Magnefine would have filtered most of what it could catch in 5 hours of driving.

 

[Donald]

In reading the Magnefine website, they say the filter media is a 25 micron filter. So I assume it caches 25 micron size particles and above. They expect the magnet to catch 99% of the ferrous particles. OAI told me their equipment only deals with particles 25 microns and smaller.

So, if there were some 25 micron (or above) size wear metal particles in the "before" UOA they would have been detected but may have been caught in the filter. However the iron (which was not listed as high by OAI did not go down as expected (magnet catching iron particles), it actually went up slightly (the vehicles was driven over 2000 miles between UOAs).

My conclusion? Still thinking!

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Because the cooler line is bypassed oil, not mainline,


While I'm not up on most of the contemporary transmissions, my cooler flow is anything by a bypass circuit. It's the primary outlet for the torque converter (highest heat generator) and the primary lubrication for the rotating bath after the trip to the cooler. Now the pump can surely be relieving itself at higher visc states and at higher speeds ..but I don't see this as a bypassed flow. Then again, I still have bands in my trans. Those you test on the bench with air ..they don't have anything other than limited "flow" ..ever.

I've seen some Tundra schematics that the cooler is bypassed internally by some themostatic or mechanical control actuated by the converter clutch ..and I do recall thinking that this setup would stifle auxiliary filtration ..but it's the cooler/filter that would be bypassed by the normal flow ..which should be the lion's share of the "working fluid".