Will a 2.7L I-5 Sprinter do better with a Syn?

[KL2BE]

Two oils approved by Mercedes for the CDI 316 Sprinter are Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15-40 and Chevron Dello 400 LE 15-40. Both carry the MB 228.3 approval; both are widely available and inexpensive (under $9/gal at my local WalMart). I've used both products for my Mazda roadster and my Yamaha 920 HR motorcycle so I began using one or the other in my '07 ('06 chassis) Sprinter RV.
A Synthetic with an MB approval for the Sprinter is hard to find. An MB 228.5, 228.51, 229.5 or 229.51 is called for. One MB 228.5 approved Syn I can find is Mobil 1 Delvac 5-40 (same as Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5-40 according to Mobil web-site).
The Syn is 3 times as expensive (and I need 10 quarts for a change) and I still need to change at the same 10,000 mile interval.
All my miles are highway at 55-60 MPH. Ambient temp always between 60 & 90 F.
What benefit does the MB 228.5 approved Syn product give that the MB approved 228.3 non-syn does not?

 

[VK56VD]

Off topic, but I was wonder what kind of MPG are you getting with the Sprinter?

 

[KL2BE]

Originally Posted By: Spartuss
Off topic, but I was wonder what kind of MPG are you getting with the Sprinter?

From delivery in Mpls in Oct. to arrival home in Anchorage in Dec. we logged 10,000 miles. Kept records on each fill. Best tanks were 26 MPG where we were on back roads in the 50-55 MPH range. Worst tanks (22 MPG) were in SoCal where we were forced onto freeways at speeds in the 65-70 MPH range. Mileage also suffered in Yukon Territory were computer controlled variable vane Turbo took 500 mile holiday due to snow clogged air filter.
Average over full 10,000 miles was 23.99; close enough for me to call it 24MPG.
Our Sprinter is a long wheel-base/high-top and has an RV build (holding tanks, propane and etc.), but was otherwise lightly loaded; about 700 pounds under GROSS. An AC unit sits on top catching wind. (I've driven heavy and underpowered rigs so I do know how to time lights, avoid dead stops and a myriad of other fuel-saving techniques). Still, I was amazed.

 

[dnewton3]

to BITOG!


Given your use (all highway at moderate speeds) and your OCI (presumably mandated at 10k for warranty), I really don't see any reason to use the synthetic at all.

Highway driving is the best you can do for a vehcile. Everything comes up to temp and stays there. Fuel dilution and condensation are minimal, presuming the engine is mechanically sound. Oil pressures remain in the optimal range. It just doesn't get much better than steady state highway driving.

And your ambient temps are very moderate as well, so the whole "cold pumpability" issue is moot.

Look at your sump capacity! 10 quarts for 2.7 litres. My duramax is a 6.6L engine that also has 10 quarts. You have less than half the displacement of my truck, but you have the same sump capacity! That's part of the reason your sprinter can go 10k miles on dino! It could probably go past that, but MB limits you there.

I'm sure someone will chime in a tell you how awesome the Delvac 1 is (which I fully admit, it's a great lube!), but the reality is that you don't need synthetic, given your OCI and use factors. For the cost of the synthetic, you could do UOA's, and spend your money more wisely.

Synthetics have just a few, but distinct, advantages. They protect in temp extremes - WAY EXTREME. Like -20F type cold; it'll pump a bit easier, making a diesel start a bit easier. And they take extreme heat better, but by extreme, I mean like over-heating. The typical operating temps of a liquid cooled engine are around 190-210 degF. That's WELL within the abilities of a dino fluid.

Synthetics also offer the advantage of extended OCI's, when comparing wear metals. But if you're limited here due to warranty concerns, then this is a non-contributor.

In summation: you can't extend your OCI (warranty), you drive an optimal style (highway), you have a huge sump (10 qts), and you operate in moderate temps (60-90 degF).

Your question: "What benefit does the MB 228.5 approved Syn product give that the MB approved 228.3 non-syn does not? "
My answer: NONE!

 

[Jax_RX8]

"Ambient temp always between 60 & 90 F." - Not sure how you do this in Alaska, but within this temp range you are fine with any of the big 3 dino 15W40's (Rotella T, Delo, Delvac).

However, if you ever see real Alaska weather, I would definitely consider a synthetic 5W40.

 

[Pablo]

I was wondering about the Alaska angle myself.

 

[dnewton3]

From the way his second post reads, it's an RV, so likely he's running in mainly in summer?????? Sounds like he picked it up new (took delivery in Mpls?) and has put 10k on it.

If it's going to be a summer-driven RV, then the temps are like he claims. I'll take him at his word. All the indications are it's a RV by the way he talks of steady state cruising, moderate temps, etc.

I'm all for synthetics when they make sense. Here, they don't.

 

[KL2BE]

Originally Posted By: Jax_RX8
"Ambient temp always between 60 & 90 F." - Not sure how you do this in Alaska, but within this temp range you are fine with any of the big 3 dino 15W40's (Rotella T, Delo, Delvac).

However, if you ever see real Alaska weather, I would definitely consider a synthetic 5W40.


This is a Summer-only vehicle for Alaska; and Lower 48 for winter.
The Dec. '07 Al-Can drive was an anomaly I will not likely repeat.
The good news was the Sprinter handled very well on icy roads with the alternate Michelin OEM tires. The bad news was that a design flaw in the air snorkel allows dry blowing snow to be picked up and pack the air-filter.
This year we will leave in early sept and won't head back until April!

 

[dnewton3]

Seeing that you've defined the use well, I'm going to stand my ground and say that the dino stuff is more than adequate for your use. In your case, the synthetic is just a waste of money, and you'll see no benefit from it.

I find the Sprinter to be a very intriguing vehicle. I like the concept, and all the variants of the chassis lend itself to many different applications. And MB sure can make some sweet diesel engines. Can't beat that fuel mileage either. The Sprinter might be a tad slow compared to a large diesel truck like mine pulling a trailer, but then you get probably 2x the mileage that I do. With today's fuel prices, that means a lot! Since I use my truck for other applications, it made sense for us to get a travel trailer to pull, rather than another dedicated vehicle. If I were in the market for a motorhome, the Sprinter chassis would be at the top of my list for many applications!

Back on topic, your original thread topic and post basically asked if your vehicle would fare better with a synthetic fluid. I am very much a proponent of synthetic lubes, when it makes sense.

Here's what many people just don't understand. Synthetic fluids are tools for making the LUBRICANT last longer, not the equipment. Any lubricant will eventually get contaminated or have it's additive package depleted to a point where you cannot use it any longer. So, in reality, at some point, the wear metals, insolubles, TBN loss, etc will all become as issue with synthetics, just as it is with dino's. So it's not a question of IF any fluid would need to be changed, but WHEN. So, to think forward, a synthetic cannot make an engine, tranny, ball joint, etc last longer. What the synthetic can do is make itself last longer, thereby extending the service life of the fluid. This becomes a fiscal advantage, ONLY IF YOU LEAVE THE FLUID IN SERVICE. If you change a synthetic out before it's time is due (such as at/near a dino OCI mileage), then you've negated the main advantage of the synthetic.

Think of it this way. If you were to limit the wear metals to accepted levels such as 10ppm for copper, or lead, etc. then it's likely that a dino fluid would get up to that limit before a synthetic, but you may assure yourself that the synthetic would eventually get there too. So, did the synthetic protect "better"? I so NO! Since it reaches the same limit, then the LEVEL of protection is the same. Only the DURATION of protection changed; you get more miles driven with the synthetic before you reach that expected level, but you don't get "better" protection. Hence the synthetic advantage. Same thing with insolubles, oxidation, etc.

The advantages of temperature tolerance are greatly exaggerated when considering synthetics. It's not that synthetics can't handle greater extremes; they can! It's just that most people aren't likely to see those extremes in routine operation, at least if they're truly honest with themselves. So here again, synthetics offer an advantage that can't typically be capitalized on. Where's the benefit to a characteristic that can't be realized???????

In normal service, with limited OCI mileage, synthetics are just a moot point.

 

[bullwinkle]

I would agree-except that synthetic oil also runs MUCH cleaner, and with regular UOAs and bypass filtration, has the ability to last many, MANY times longer than dino oil. The cold pumpability is also a factor in some diesels (like my work truck's 6.0 Ford van)-I can't plug it in, & even w/10W30 dino oil it romps/chugs & spits out unburned fuel, even @ 30 F., but-no romping even w/a group III syn such as Valvoline Premium Extreme 5W40.

 

[JustinH]

Run the Delvac, or the Delo.

Both will work excellent, you don't need the syn.

Stick to the book on the service interval, and that thing will run forever.

Great truck, I'd love to own one.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
KL2BE - Delvac 1 5W-40 is a suitable lubricant for your engine. The benefits will accrue if you use UOAs to extend your OCIs to near the end of the lubricant's life in your engine

Whilst not "needed", MB engines do perform best on synthetic lubricants with many advantages that would take an explanation beyond this Forum in time and effort. PM me if you wish

 

[SkyPup]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I would agree-except that synthetic oil also runs MUCH cleaner, and with regular UOAs and bypass filtration, has the ability to last many, MANY times longer than dino oil.


Can you explain the "synthetic oil also runs MUCH cleaner" statement? That makes no sense to me

 

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted By: SkyPup
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I would agree-except that synthetic oil also runs MUCH cleaner, and with regular UOAs and bypass filtration, has the ability to last many, MANY times longer than dino oil.


Can you explain the "synthetic oil also runs MUCH cleaner" statement? That makes no sense to me

X2.....

 

[bullwinkle]

I can tell you M1/TDT unstuck my piston rings & reduced blowby tremendously in my '82 300D (which had been neglected to the point of abuse by the PO-try no oil change for 14K miles with gas dino oil), I've since been using CH-4 straight 30 Delo 400 in the summer, and by 3500 miles, the oil comes out of the drain plug chunky from all the soot!! The syn I've used in the winter gets black, but not clumpy like the dino. I need to do UOAs on it, but it really needs a rebuild-between leaks and burning it goes through about a qt. every 600 miles or so. I thought that synthetic's cleaning abilities were the reason that old engines tended to leak more-cleaning the crud out of old gaskets & seals??

 

[SkyPup]

Yes synthetics generally clean better- I just couldn't figure out what you were trying to say with "runs cleaner".

In a way one could say synthetics run dirtier, since they clean better and therefore may appear dirtier when drained!

 

[OilGuy]

Originally Posted By: SkyPup
Yes synthetics generally clean better-


A dangerous statement - sometimes a better add pack accompanys better base oil, sometimes not. There are "synthetics" that use a higher VI base oil with a bare minimum API add pack. Don't be snowballed into believing that all areas of performance are better just because the marketing term "synthetic" is applied to a product.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
regarding diesel engines and IMHE some synthetic lubricants do seem to handle soot agglomeration and overall soot levels better than their mineral cousins. This does lead to less engine deposits on many components

That said generalising is always a recipe for dispute

 

[KL2BE]

Thanks for all the responses; figure I will mostly use Delvac 1300 15w-40 or Delo 400 15w-40.
Still, I might want to use the Syn alternative on occasion, particularly if I end up driving in more extream conditions.
Not really worth a new thread...BUT I do have a Syn question I can't get answered on Mobil's web-site.
The Sprinter (06 Freightliner chassis) manual lists Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 as an approved oil (meets MB 228.3 and MB 228.5). Delvac 1 is not readily available here.
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 is available at WalMart for $23/gal. Trouble is the M-1 TDT does not give an MB approval on the bottle (just E-5 and E-7).
I once read that M-1 TDT 5w-40 and D-1 5w-40 were the SAME formula.
TRUE? If so I wonder why Mobil does not list MB 228.3 or MB 228.5 on the container?
Do all E-6 and E-7 approved oils meet MB 228.3?

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
KL2BE - Delvac 1300 15W-40 is an excellent lubricant with a great history. If the viscosity is correct for the vehicle and the prevailing ambient it will do well

Delvac 1 5W-40 is an "International" lubricant and has been certified for that and Commercial use purposes. All Delvac products are Commercial use products and are designed and formulated live in a different world to PCMOs for example

M1 TDT 5W-40 is only available in NA and is "certified" for that purpose only. In your specific case and location I would not hesitate to use it in the absence of Delvac 1 5W-40

Not all E-6 - E-7 ACEA quality rated lubricants WILL meet MB228.3 specification