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#1051344 - 12/23/07 04:54 PM Re: Glazed walls [Re: doitmyself]
kilgore68 Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5
Loc: Norway
Take a look at this article

Cylinder deposit

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#1051445 - 12/23/07 07:58 PM Re: Glazed walls [Re: kilgore68]
My442 Offline


Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 219
Loc: Boston
I have my rebuilt engines broken in on an engine dyno. The dyno shop uses the "beat the snot out of it" break in procedure where they go from low to high RPMs over and over to seat the rings.

The last 3 engines I did came back with zero oil consumption.

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#1051467 - 12/23/07 08:48 PM Re: Glazed walls [Re: My442]
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11006
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
Bon Ami powder was the way we used to fix glazed walls in the carb engine days.

The Universal Cleanser
This one was told to me by the proprietor of a Mackay automotive engineering works, a man well respected in the trade. In the late 1960's he was an apprentice motor mechanic with the local distributors of British and European cars. The first of the six cylinder 109 Land Rovers in the district had been sold by them. The new owners soon brought them back, complaining bitterly about blue smoke and horrendous oil consumption. Cylinder heads were lifted on a couple of them revealing glazed bores and the only remedy the firm could think of was a light de-glazing hone and new rings.
The more of these sixes they sold, the more it began to look like an epidemic. Rover Australia were contacted and it seems that it was an Australia wide epidemic of near-new, smoky, oil guzzling 2.6 litre Land Rovers.
Eventually the solution came in the form of a technical bulletin from Rover HQ. There was something wrong with the bore finish on these engines and if they were treated gently, as owners of new cars tend to do, the rings would never bed in and the bores would glaze. Owners should be instructed to give them plenty of welly in the first few hundred miles.
The official fix for those vehicles already affected was as follows:-
Remove the aircleaner. Start engine and set to a fast 1500 rpm idle.Take a tablespoon full of Bon Ami, a popular household cleanser and slowly tap the powder into the carburettor throat over a period of fifteen minutes. Put everything back in place and take the vehicle for a brisk test drive.
The bulletin was most insistent that it should be Bon Ami cleanser. Ajax or Jif would not do.
My informant swears that this story is 100% true and that the fix did, in fact, work exactly as advertised.

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#1051469 - 12/23/07 08:50 PM Re: Glazed walls [Re: My442]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 4180
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
Aircraft engines require an agressive break in procedure. If not done properly, they will consume oil forever!

Interestingly enough, a fairly coarse hone job, steel barrels (factory Lycoming are nitrided, hard!) (others are not), Chrome rings, forged pistons, all work well for thousands of safe hours after a full throttle break in!

Remember that aircraft engines have very high cylinder pressures. So, even though your car engine makes more HP per cu/in the aircraft engine may actually have higher internal pressures! They also produce high power levels for long periods of time. Quite unlike a car engine.

I am in favor of agressive break in for nearly all engines, after a few minor heat cycles. An exception may be very precise motorcycle engines that run extremely high stress levels due to RPM's in the high teens. In this case, caution is necessary. The minor friction loads of new parts can break connecting rods that are already at the limit.

Chris
_________________________
Turbo's rule.

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#1051475 - 12/23/07 09:08 PM Re: Glazed walls [Re: sprintman]
Thatwouldbegreat Offline


Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 1407
Loc: Vail, Colorado
I once saw a show in Chevy V8's in the late 50's that had a similar problem and there were fixed with Bon Ami

"Of interest to those of you with a bent for automotive history is the =
fact that the Bon Ami that bimwads are so fond of for windshield =
cleaning, had another very important automotive use many years ago. =
In the 1955 model year Chevrolet introduced its famous smallblock V8 =
in the 265in. version. The early production run used oil at the rate =
of 200=AD300 miles per quart. It was found that this was due to an =
incompatibility between the honing pattern and the piston ring =
material. The official factory fix communicated to dealers was to =
slowly dump a box of Bon Ami down the carburetor while the engine was =
running. Seems the Bon Ami helped to polish the cylinder bores, =
providing a better seating surface for the piston rings and =
dramatically reducing oil consumption.

It is wierd to think of what happened to the Bon Ami that got past =
the rings. Chevy didn't start using a full flow oil filter until =
1957! Aparently no problems.
"

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#1052659 - 12/26/07 02:17 PM Re: Glazed walls [Re: Quest]
Rick20 Offline


Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 1381
Loc: Central Florida
I would try running ARX. If you go over to the ARX site and look at the test on the Harley V-twin motor that had a very poor initial break in. In very short order compression shot right up to spec. It sure gave the V-twin a second chance on break in.

Add a full bottle of ARX and drive it like you stole it.

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#1056750 - 01/03/08 10:01 AM Re: Glazed walls [Re: Rick20]
vacuum_6 Offline


Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Illinois
Thanks for the information. I'll try ARX or similar product and keep you posted.
_________________________
Walter Boss
1987 Buick Turbo T

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#1057209 - 01/03/08 11:10 PM Re: Glazed walls [Re: vacuum_6]
Oilgal Offline


Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: North East Kingdom
There is no product similar to ARX. It is truly in a class by itself.
_________________________
Three Stooges For President

choose one

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#1057729 - 01/04/08 06:30 PM Re: Glazed walls [Re: Oilgal]
mechtech2 Offline


Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 19479
Loc: Chicago Area
I have seen and worked on hundreds of engines at various wear stages .
I have seen degrees of wear, but NEVER any deposit coating on a cylinder wall causing it to be glazed. I NEVER saw anything but a thin film of normal oil where the piston rings rode.
Google doesn't work on cars for a living, I do.
Piston rings and lands will gum and carbon up and not seal right, but that is not cyl wall glazing.

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#3093168 - 08/12/13 07:48 AM Re: Glazed walls [Re: vacuum_6]
Falken Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 1684
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
http://www.redlineoil.com/techinfo_faq.aspx

Q: Can I break-in my engine on Red Line motor oil?
For peformance engines, we recommend using conventional 10w30 motor oil to ensure proper piston ring seating. We recommend using this oil in combonation with our Engine Oil Break In Additive, which features the antiwear chemicals necessary to protect valve train components like camshafts, rollers, and tappets. Though most conventional oils are missing the important antiwear components that you find in Red Line's synthetic motor oils, the conventional oil is not as slick as Red Line and will allow the piston rings to seat more quickly. If you allow 1500 to 2000 miles in a street engine or 20 to 30 minutes on the dyno at low rpm, the rings will have had sufficient time to seat and the high initial break-in wear will have occurred. For new road cars, always follow the manufacturer recommendations and initial oil change recommendations for break-in.
_________________________
Falken - Draftsperson
2010 Honda Fit DX-A in Black
Current Fill: QSUD 5W20 SN, Wix 57356 Oil Filter, ATF DW-1

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#3093172 - 08/12/13 07:52 AM Re: Glazed walls [Re: vacuum_6]
Falken Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 1684
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
mechtech2, I always agree with your posts.

I just don't like the [censored] shoot of breaking in an engine.

Some people end up with a quart of consumption every 1,000 miles and some people don't.

I hit it lucky. I have a Honda, a classic oil burner, and have no consumption at all.

I just believe some of these theories may have a grain of truth to them.

But, I have only pulled apart 3 engines in my life, all three at school!
_________________________
Falken - Draftsperson
2010 Honda Fit DX-A in Black
Current Fill: QSUD 5W20 SN, Wix 57356 Oil Filter, ATF DW-1

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#3093196 - 08/12/13 08:15 AM Re: Glazed walls [Re: Cujet]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15130
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Aircraft engines require an agressive break in procedure. If not done properly, they will consume oil forever!
I am in favor of agressive break in for nearly all engines, after a few minor heat cycles. An exception may be very precise motorcycle engines that run extremely high stress levels due to RPM's in the high teens. In this case, caution is necessary. The minor friction loads of new parts can break connecting rods that are already at the limit. Chris


Excellent points all. High load and larger throttle openings EARLY on is the hidden key to a long life engine. Many machinist will agree that the rotating assembly is either right or wrong so there is no reason to baby a new car around for hundreds of miles unless you want a burner!
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#3095853 - 08/14/13 09:24 PM Re: Glazed walls [Re: vacuum_6]
steve20 Offline


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3084
Loc: NJ
couldn't disagree with you more---from my experience an overall low-load break in has worked for me many time. It is important to constantly vary the engine load, I choose hilly terrain---but nothing more than 1/2 throttle for the first 500 miles. You can usually feel the engine lighten up between 200-300 miles and you know it's done, for the most part. Guess it really doesn't matter all that much as your engines and my engines apparently last a very long time
_________________________
Love my 427 Chevy

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