2000 Civic, Amsoil Series 2000 0w30, 25,000 miles

[paulgoh]

Car: 2000 Civic Coupe EX
Oil: Amsoil Series 2000 0w30
Oil Filter: Amsoil EA oil filter
Air Filter: Honda OEM
Miles of oil usage: 25,000 miles
Duration of oil usage: 18 months
Makeup oil: 1 qt at 12,500 miles (Drain plug area was leaking a little)
Total vehical miles: 108,100
Driving style: Hard
Location: San Jose, California

 

[buster]

Quote:
Duration of oil usage: 18 months


I think you went 6 months too far on the oil.

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

For that long of an interval, your wear numbers are in great shape, and viscosity wasn't horrible given the 25,000 mile interval. From the looks of the zinc and phosphorous, this may be the old SL formula, which was prone to thickening, but it went from ~11.5 cSt to 14.7 cSt, which is not a big deal, in my opinion. TBN would be nice to see, but perhaps 20,000 miles would be a good limit from now on.

 

[buster]

I agree. Held up well considering the conditions.

 

[paulgoh]

Originally Posted By: ConfederateTyrant
For that long of an interval, your wear numbers are in great shape, and viscosity wasn't horrible given the 25,000 mile interval. From the looks of the zinc and phosphorous, this may be the old SL formula, which was prone to thickening, but it went from ~11.5 cSt to 14.7 cSt, which is not a big deal, in my opinion. TBN would be nice to see, but perhaps 20,000 miles would be a good limit from now on.


Hmm....the Amsoil oil is rated for 35,000 miles so I thought I'm under-using it by doing 25,000 miles. Also, I'm not sure if the duration of the oil usage (i.e., 18 months) have anything to do with the wear and tear of the engine and the oil does not seem to have accumulated any water. Perhaps I could try to replace the oil filter and let it go another 10,000 miles before draining at 35,000 miles?

 

[Dominic]

I would change it every 10,000 to 15,000 or once per year. Your OCI is too long, like they said the viscosity is off and it's no longer doing what it should. did it hold up?? sort of. You abused it. Be gentler next time, it's just oil.

 

[paulgoh]

Originally Posted By: Dominic
I would change it every 10,000 to 15,000 or once per year. Your OCI is too long, like they said the viscosity is off and it's no longer doing what it should. did it hold up?? sort of. You abused it. Be gentler next time, it's just oil.


Well, the oil is rated for 35,000 miles by Amsoil so how am I abusing it?

Also, I don't see how a higher viscosity can harm the engine. I thought a higher viscosity oil (within limits) will protect the engine better but you will suffer slightly on fuel economy?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: paulgoh
Originally Posted By: ConfederateTyrant
For that long of an interval, your wear numbers are in great shape, and viscosity wasn't horrible given the 25,000 mile interval. From the looks of the zinc and phosphorous, this may be the old SL formula, which was prone to thickening, but it went from ~11.5 cSt to 14.7 cSt, which is not a big deal, in my opinion. TBN would be nice to see, but perhaps 20,000 miles would be a good limit from now on.


Hmm....the Amsoil oil is rated for 35,000 miles so I thought I'm under-using it by doing 25,000 miles. Also, I'm not sure if the duration of the oil usage (i.e., 18 months) have anything to do with the wear and tear of the engine and the oil does not seem to have accumulated any water. Perhaps I could try to replace the oil filter and let it go another 10,000 miles before draining at 35,000 miles?


Lets see what Amsoil says;

Quote:
• Normal Service(3) – Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Replace AMSOIL Ea oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals).


See the part about ONE YEAR.

Also;

Quote:
(3) Personal vehicles frequently traveling greater than 10 miles (16km) at a time and not operating under severe service.

(4) Turbo or supercharged vehicles, commercial or fleet vehicles, extensive engine idling, first and subsequent use of AMSOIL in vehicles with over 100,000 miles, daily short trip driving less than 10 miles (16km), frequent towing, plowing, hauling or dusty condition driving.


So if your doing anything that would be considered severe use (like driving HARD) your up to 17,500 miles or ONE YEAR.

You have gone over a year. The filter is rated for a MAX of 25k or one year.

CHANGE THE OIL and next time, take it to a max of 20k or one year IMO.

Unless you don't want to see high miles on this engine without problems. The oil is TOO THICK even for CA weather (again IMO).

For a engine that would be happy with a 5w-20, I'd go with Amsoil ASM 0w-20 for a max of 25k or ONE YEAR over anything else for a long OCI.

Thanks for posting this UOA. I've learned from it.

Bill

 

[buster]

Bill is right. 17k miles/1 year should have been the cut off for this oil. Oil still held up very well considering.

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

Everyone, do understand that this may have been the thickening-prone version, and it didn't even thicken nearly as high as we've seen some do in less than 10,000 miles.

Quote:
Hmm....the Amsoil oil is rated for 35,000 miles so I thought I'm under-using it by doing 25,000 miles. Also, I'm not sure if the duration of the oil usage (i.e., 18 months) have anything to do with the wear and tear of the engine and the oil does not seem to have accumulated any water. Perhaps I could try to replace the oil filter and let it go another 10,000 miles before draining at 35,000 miles?

It is rated for 35,000 miles under normal conditions, and 17,500 miles under severe conditions, both contain a 1 year limit. You do say it is hard driving conditions, which would lead me to believe the 1 year cut off point is best, as it'd be ~17,500 miles.

Give us some better descriptions of your driving conditions, and we'll see what we come up with.

Personally, I think you got your money's worth out of the oil and you didn't do any harm to the engine. Did you notice any decreases in fuel economy?

Perhaps you'd be a good candidate for the 0w-20 ASM oil, and change it every year.

 

[Pablo]

I can't make a better post than Bill.

The wear is not terrible, the discontinued, probably older formula TSO went from a 30 to a SAE 40. Good to know you took it way beyond the limits without harm.

 

[paulgoh]

I didn't notice any decrease in fuel economy. My Civic does 30 mpg typically and even around 20,000 miles of oil usage, it still does 30 mpg.

I don't know if it is true or not but I think Amsoil oil tends to thicken with usage and this seems to be normal. The synthetic oil study kinda supported this theory:
Linky

Also, I don't know why everyone is so worried about using the oil over 1 year. I really don't see a problem with it. For example, if you are using Amsoil's bypass filter, you could extend your OCI indefinitely based on oil analysis, i.e., the 1 year limit doesn't apply. Tell me, how does it not apply in the bypass filter but applies in a normal filter? Is it only because the bypass filter is a better filter? Furthermore, my UOA kinda supported the fact that hard driving and extended usage is fine with Amsoil right?

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

Originally Posted By: paulgoh
I didn't notice any decrease in fuel economy. My Civic does 30 mpg typically and even around 20,000 miles of oil usage, it still does 30 mpg.

I don't know if it is true or not but I think Amsoil oil tends to thicken with usage and this seems to be normal. The synthetic oil study kinda supported this theory:
Linky

Also, I don't know why everyone is so worried about using the oil over 1 year. I really don't see a problem with it. For example, if you are using Amsoil's bypass filter, you could extend your OCI indefinitely based on oil analysis, i.e., the 1 year limit doesn't apply. Tell me, how does it not apply in the bypass filter but applies in a normal filter? Is it only because the bypass filter is a better filter? Furthermore, my UOA kinda supported the fact that hard driving and extended usage is fine with Amsoil right?

That's good to know that yours didn't negatively respond to a thicker oil, mine didn't either, but some engines are a bit touchy about viscosity.

All oils thicken with usage (I believe a change of one viscosity range is acceptable, thicken or shear), but the older Amsoil formulas did get bad in some vehicles. That study is very outdated, as it references the old formula, but now it is under control. With your conditions and oil mileage, going up -/+ 3.2 cSt is NOTHING to worry about.

Even without the by-pass, UOA is the only way to extend drain intervals outside of Amsoil's recommendations. However, after the mileage/year limit, Amsoil no longer warrants the product. The limits are there to prevent people from going years on the same oil change, and thus risking lawsuits. I guess people just don't want to hear Amsoil get blasted when the user went outside of the recommendations. However, you didn't cause any harm, just got to get others to acknowledge that.

I plan to do 2 year OCIs, with a UOA after the first one to determine how it is, because I drive ~4,000 miles a year. If the UOA supports it, I'll go 3 years. So far all of my UOAs have shown the oil to do fine for a year, aside from the ingested dirt causing slightly elevated wear numbers, but I'll trust it enough for one more year next time.

 

[Pablo]

Well the older formulas did tend to have a rise in viscosity, I do agree it's not a huge issue (wasn't then). Amsoil no longer makes the oil you used, now it's SSO 0W-30 - so it would be interesting to see a run of the SSO 0W-30.

My main "worry" (and it's not a huge concern) is that when you go outside of Amsoil's recommendation, you no longer have Amsoil warranty coverage.

Yes the bypass filter is pretty good, hard to say how much it would have helped here.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Unless you don't want to see high miles on this engine without problems.


Well, as much as I'd recommend that he change it out at 1 year, I don't see him having any trouble doing 5 or 6 more of these types of OCI's and having any of his utility reduced or degraded in his engine. By then, he's @ 225k ..which, iirc Bill, is your benchmark (or there abouts) for a successful ownership.

I would have gotten TAN added to a UOA of this duration ..maybe TBN and TAN ..but aside from the slight visc elevation ..there's nothing too much to quibble about

 

[Bobert]

Wear looks perfectly fine to me. These results are very good which is a testament to the oil not to Honda.
Code:


Wear per 1000 miles



Civic UA

Iron 1.16 1.5

Copper .6 1.16

Aluminum .2 .5

Lead .84 .83

 

[BigBadf350]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
..there's nothing too much to quibble about

nickel and lead seem elevated and out of whack a bit. seems 15K would be a good place to test at.

 

[Gary Allan]

Sure, on our nitpicking scale. You would want them lower for the warm and fuzzy feeling. I would not like it ..but I wouldn't sweat it either

Now if this was a 10k OCI, then I'd be a little torqued up and getting nervous.

It would have really been nice to get a Dyson analysis on this. You get a much broader read. Oxidation, Nitration, TBN and TAN would have probably given more stuff to object to.


All that I'm pointing out here is that although it may seem foolish to do this OCI again ...just what is the fool's folly using the view we have here with this UOA?

 

[Pablo]

Ni is what, 4 ppm? In 25,000 miles. Please.

Sure Pb could be lower.....but I've seen higher a LOT shorter OCI's with a single use of octane boost/FI&CC cleaner.

 

[paulgoh]

Hey now that you guys mentioned it, I did use the Amsoil PI fuel injector cleaner just before changing the oil and taking a sample...that could increase the Ni/Pb?