Mobil 1 0W-40 Current PDS

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thanks JAG, I stand corrected. There is an interesting comment in the slides

Quote:
No data has been shown to support the need for increased
HTHS viscosity.
– Higher HTHS viscosity will adversely impact fuel economy


I've done a bit of reading and thus far the need for high HTHS is mixed in the research. The consensus is that it's a very good indicator for fuel economy, but different studies come to different conclusions about wear.
 
We have had M1 0w-40 on the dyno and have had oil temps that do not settle down like they do in the same engine, a Porsche GT3, with Red Line 10w-40 or Amsoil 5w-50. In three high mileage older Porsche engines using M1 0w-40 we saw corrosion damage, in the cam drive components. The corrosion damage was tagged by lab analysis of the chains and gears. There was no glycol involved. This damage did not happen in similar higher mileage engines using Amsoil 5w-40 or Red Line 10w-40, Delo 15w-40 or Rotella 15w-40. One GT3 owner stopped using M1 0w-40 because of fuel contamination. He uses this car as a daily driver in Los Angles and has experienced rates between 2 and 4 percent. He switched to BioSyn and his very first sample was listed as >1 percent. M1 0w-40 is probably best for low stress driving which just may cover a large majority of users. For those that step on it more than a few times there may be better choices. Many car owners never drive their high performance car anywhere near that car’s potential. I hope I get the name right but we had a customer come in with his dad’s (a friend of everyone in the shop) AMG S65, twin turbo V12. The kid thought that twin turbos meant a dual exhaust system and had never taken the car over 80 miles per hour (the speed of rush hour traffic on Los Angles freeways). He let me drive the car (after lots of begging and groveling) and was shocked when I showed him what power the car had hidden under the hood. I’ll just bet that there are others out there just like him and his dad and M1 0w-40 might be just the ticket for them.
 
Originally Posted By: BarkerMan
We have had M1 0w-40 on the dyno and have had oil temps that do not settle down like they do in the same engine, a Porsche GT3, with Red Line 10w-40 or Amsoil 5w-50. In three high mileage older Porsche engines using M1 0w-40 we saw corrosion damage, in the cam drive components. The corrosion damage was tagged by lab analysis of the chains and gears. There was no glycol involved. This damage did not happen in similar higher mileage engines using Amsoil 5w-40 or Red Line 10w-40, Delo 15w-40 or Rotella 15w-40. One GT3 owner stopped using M1 0w-40 because of fuel contamination. He uses this car as a daily driver in Los Angles and has experienced rates between 2 and 4 percent. He switched to BioSyn and his very first sample was listed as >1 percent. M1 0w-40 is probably best for low stress driving which just may cover a large majority of users. For those that step on it more than a few times there may be better choices. Many car owners never drive their high performance car anywhere near that car’s potential. I hope I get the name right but we had a customer come in with his dad’s (a friend of everyone in the shop) AMG S65, twin turbo V12. The kid thought that twin turbos meant a dual exhaust system and had never taken the car over 80 miles per hour (the speed of rush hour traffic on Los Angles freeways). He let me drive the car (after lots of begging and groveling) and was shocked when I showed him what power the car had hidden under the hood. I’ll just bet that there are others out there just like him and his dad and M1 0w-40 might be just the ticket for them.


Thanks for sharing Barkerman. The only thing I would say here is, in older style high milage Porsche engines, you really need a robust racing type of oil. Something like a HDEO, Redline, Amsoil 20w-50 or M1 15w-50. This seems to be a situation where M1 0w-40 would not be the ideal choice.
 
Whats confusing to me is that the back of the bottle states "Porsche approval list 2002". The website states "PORSCHE Special Oil List". Not sure what that means, as there have been later approved lists, and in 2002 M1 0w-40 was an SL rated oil. The current list does not state "0w-40 European Formula" which seems kind of vague. When the SM version first came out, they dropped the "European" designation from the front of the bottle, but then later added it back on. Although the current Porsche list of approved oils show a M1 0w-40, I'm wondering if there's a European oil that's different from the one in the US...
 
I PROMISE IT WAS NOT THE SAME LAST NIGHT WHEN I POSTED THIS!!! It was the old SL formula with the old viscosities and specs! It has been changed since I posted this. I AM NOT CRAZY!
 
Mobil 1 is just an ordinary oil with an extra ordinary price. It's a good oil but in today's market place that makes it just an average oil. There is no argument that Mobil 1 is not a good oil. It's just that for the price there are many other choices, even cheaper ones that are at least as good if not better. Repeat after me, "it's okay to use something besides Mobil 1, even if it's the oil on my oil fill cap". We have never seen anything special in Mobil 1 on the dyno. We have done pulls with diesel grade 15w-40 from Chevron and Shell with results equal to Mobil 1 0w-40, Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w-40 and Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 5w-40. And most people don't stress their oil enough to ever know the difference, anyhow.
 
Originally Posted By: BarkerMan
Mobil 1 is just an ordinary oil with an extra ordinary price. It's a good oil but in today's market place that makes it just an average oil. There is no argument that Mobil 1 is not a good oil. It's just that for the price there are many other choices, even cheaper ones that are at least as good if not better. Repeat after me, "it's okay to use something besides Mobil 1, even if it's the oil on my oil fill cap". We have never seen anything special in Mobil 1 on the dyno. We have done pulls with diesel grade 15w-40 from Chevron and Shell with results equal to Mobil 1 0w-40, Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w-40 and Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 5w-40. And most people don't stress their oil enough to ever know the difference, anyhow.


BarkerMan, true but the dyno really isn't a good indicator to measure oil quality.

I judge the quality based on industry approvals, who uses the product, UOA's and reputation. You have to remember BarkerMan, with all due respect, that Mobil 1 0w-40 is a different animal than M1 10w-40 HM or Chevron 15w-40. Those oils are completely different.

I had a conversation with someone at Mobil fwiw and they do not buy factor fill contract with automakers. With M1 0w-40, Porsche knows that people in Canada will be buying Porsches so it made sense to make a 0w-40 global oil for these cars. If you also knew the type of testing that goes into these approvals, you would be pretty impressed.

When people talk about Redline/Amsoil 20w-50/RLI etc, these oils are all different. Mobil 1 0w-40 is a low HT/HS (fuel efficiency)API SM rated oil. Redline certainly is not API SM and S2k 20w-50 is a racing oil. RLI uses very little VII's and has a ton of AW additives.

So what I'm getting at is, yes there are many great oils but you have to keep things on an apples to apples basis.
 
Originally Posted By: glxpassat
I PROMISE IT WAS NOT THE SAME LAST NIGHT WHEN I POSTED THIS!!! It was the old SL formula with the old viscosities and specs! It has been changed since I posted this. I AM NOT CRAZY!


Google cache is your friend.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:87g...clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Spezifikationen/Freigaben

Mobil 1 0W-40 erfüllt die Spezifikationen:

ACEA A3,B3,B4
API SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF3


Mobil 1 0W-40 ist freigegeben gemäß:

BMW LL-01
Daimler Chrysler 229.3/229.5
Opel Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
Opel Diesel Service Fill GM-LL-B-025
Porsche Approved
Volkswagen 502.00/505.00,503.01


Typische Produktdaten

Mobil 1 0W-40

SAE Klasse 0W-40
Viskosität, ASTM D 445
mm²/s bei 40ºC 80
mm²/s bei 100ºC 14,3
Viskosität sindex, ASTM D 2270 187
Sulfatasche, wt%, ASTM D 874 1,2
HTHS Viskosität, mPas bei 150ºC, ASTM D 4683 3,6
Pourpoint, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54
Flammpunkt, ºC, ASTM D 92 236
Dichte bei 15ºC, kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0,855
 
Buster I think my point was that the oil brand makes no difference for most people. You might want to consider price before hype.
 
Originally Posted By: buster


I had a conversation with someone at Mobil fwiw and they do not buy factor fill contract with automakers.


I suspect you asked the wrong questions. The question that should be asked is:

"Do you have a co-marketing agreement with specific manufacturers, such as Porsche."

Trust me, manufacturers do not put Mobil or Castrol stickers and embossed oil fill caps in their engine compartments, because they think it's a nifty idea.

As for "buying" a factory fill contract. They don't have to do that. They just have to low-ball the price on the RFQ, to preclude another oil formulator. Do you really think that XOM could advertise that they are factory fill for various auto manufacturers, without a co-marketing contract in place that is mutually beneficial for both companies?

These types of exclusive agreements require money to be exchanged in one way or another.
 
Last edited:
RI_RS4 point is well taken. All modern oils are good enough. Mobil 1 on the oil fill cap and in the engine is not a statement of ultimate quality or best. It's marketing. Mobil 1 is good enough. It's possible that many other selections are also good enough. Another feature of using Mobil 1 for consumers is that you can get it anywhere. It will be in stock and available when you do a service, another sign that tells consumers that this is a good product. An additional benefit is that the service center does not have to do much to keep you using the product in your vehicle that had Mobil 1 as the factory fill even though it’s more expensive. If you are not sure were it goes in your car or how to open the hood, you know the name. All of that is excellent marketing. Mobil 1 demands and receives a premium price and many consumers are only too happy to use and pay for the product. If you believe that Mobil 1 oil is a superior product then we can all agree that all things being equal, the better marketed product wins the prize.
 
To follow what BarkerMan says, I just compiled some Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum Euro UOA results from 6 different RS4 engines. Both of these oils are "approved" by Audi for this engine. Clearly Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 has better or equivalent performance as Mobil 1 0W-40 ("The world's leading synthetic motor oil.") at a lower cost.

Mobil 1 0W-40 is a good oil. It is not the best oil out there, even in the engines it is approved for.
Audi%20RS4%20M1%20PP%20Oil%20Samples.jpg
 
I agree Scott. The best oil for the RS4 might be an non-API SM rated oil. I think it's important though to keep things on an even basis in my opinion, such as the data you just provided. For example, Delvac 1 is a much more robust oil that M1 0w-40, but it's not what is called for. Porsche could have chose that or any other oil.

M1 0w-40 is a global API SM certified oil that is decent for cold weather climates that also provides good high temperature protection. It's also designed for fuel economy, hence the low HT/HS of 3.7. Your more robust xw-40 wt oils have HT/HS of 4.2-4.6. For engines that see track use, Mobil custom formulates oils and they probably look nothing like the 0w-40.

Deposit control is another problem that UOA's won't show. Honda took every available retail synthetic and created their new HTO-06 test. Mobil 1 was the only oil to produce ZERO deposits.

Despite what people think, companies come to Mobil, not the other way around. I don't blame Mobil for wanting them to put the sticker on the oil cap. If you owned a business wouldn't you? It's advertising.
cheers3.gif




Quote:
In just eight years, GM Corvette Racing has won the top GT class in the gruelling 24-hour Le Mans five times and recorded 51 race victories and six manufacturers' championship victories in ALMS using the LS7.R Corvette engine filled with Mobil 1 lubricant.

Mobil 1 products were GM’s first-choice when the manufacturer began developing the racing Corvette in 1996 under the stewardship of Doug Fehan. Fehan, a former American racer turned program manager, has established himself as one of the most respected team principals in sports car racing. World Sports Car and Trans-Am titles were the forerunners to his current unrivalled winning streak with Corvette Racing. During the subsequent decade of development, the team has continued to use Mobil 1. Extensive engine testing and post-race analysis reveal minimal component wear, improved engine reliability and outright performance. “Ten years ago Mobil 1 was the best. To this day it continues to offer the best performance for our engines and gearboxes,” adds Fehan.
 
Quote:
Porsche 996FL Engine test. This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through: - 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving, - 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving, - 40 cold starts, - 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, - 3.5 hours of “running-in” program Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not: - torque curve (internal friction), - oxidation of the oil, - Piston cleanliness and ring sticking, - Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 µm. - Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible. - Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method. Several mechanics told me that they were relying on “their own testing” to choose an oil. None of these mechanics showed me that their method came close to matching what Porsche does: running dozens of oils through the same 203-hour test, and comparing the results.
 
I still do not see the beef in these statements about Mobil 1. It's a good oil, but that's all. Other oils have posted very good performances, too. But you can say their marketing is the best, that's for sure.

Doug Fehan also has a sence of humor. The Corvette team has adopted the Skull logo for the CR Vette's and in 2004 at Le Mans painted "Take no prisoners" on the inside back wall of their pits. I was working in a nearby pit and he said that was their motto.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top