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#1029178 - 11/16/07 06:44 AM Mobil 1 - BASE OILS
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29436
Loc: NJ
This topic comes up repeatedly on here and I've noticed it's even in the shout box. No one knows for sure what any brand of synthetic contains. Even Amsoil's 5w-30 could potentially use some Group III. If it's majority PAO, they won't even mention other base stocks. It's pointless.

From the Japanese Mobil 1 Website:

15w-50 - PAO
0w-40 - PAO
0w-30 - PAO
0w-20 - PAO

5w-30 - PAO + Hydroprocessed
10w-30 - " "

How one defines synthetic varies. Only Mobil 1 5w-30 "Extended Performance" was tested and showed Group III. Also contained Group V.

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2015 Mazda 3i SV 6spd MT - Mobil 1 EP 0w20

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#1029183 - 11/16/07 06:49 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: buster]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46827
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Tired of the topic and tired of stickies.....next subject PLEASE!!!

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#1029189 - 11/16/07 06:55 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: Pablo]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29436
Loc: NJ
 Originally Posted By: Pablo
Tired of the topic and tired of stickies.....next subject PLEASE!!!


I'm tired of it too.
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2015 Mazda 3i SV 6spd MT - Mobil 1 EP 0w20

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#1029193 - 11/16/07 07:05 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: buster]
DragRace Offline


Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 2327
Loc: 1/4 Mile Track
This is an informative website, but lately it seems thats all that is discuessed, is whether a certain oil is group 3 or 4 or 5 and whether or not it's a "true" synthetic or not.

Repeat- repeat- and repeat! Gets very old fast.

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#1029194 - 11/16/07 07:10 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: DragRace]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29436
Loc: NJ
The only reason I posted it is so maybe people would read it and not jump to false conclusions and post more threads on this subject. Or should I have just let it die on it's own?

 Quote:
[TonyMazz] Is there any FACTS on BITOG that says Mobil 1 is Grp III base stock....their site says "Fully Synthetic PAO whattssssup BITOG ?
[G-MAN] I don't see PAO mentioned anywhere on their site.
[G-MAN] In the FAQ it says high perf fluids are used "including PAO." That means something else is used, too.
[TonyMazz] In their FAQ it also asks is Mobil 1 a full synthetic and their answer is YES...are they lying ?
[TonyMazz] Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives
[TonyMazz] false advertising ?
[TonyMazz] I am just confused...
[wwillson] depends on how you interpret "full synthetic"
[Dr_No] exactly
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2015 Mazda 3i SV 6spd MT - Mobil 1 EP 0w20

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#1029206 - 11/16/07 07:37 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: buster]
flatlandtacoma Offline


Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 1022
Loc: Illinois
I turned off the shout box. The noise went away.
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#1029207 - 11/16/07 07:37 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: buster]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 35538
Loc: New Jersey
If performance in YOUR application, determined by UOA is good, then what is the issue? One is paying for PERFORMANCE, not BASESTOCK, per se. I know some are overcome by the so-called value proposition of using PAO or better basestocks exclusively, but even those setups have their limitations.

We are at a point when the overall chemistry is more important than basestock, IMO.

JMH

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#1029210 - 11/16/07 07:40 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: buster]
remmious Offline


Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 144
Loc: MN
I normally don't click on this type of thread but I will respond this time. Most new people to oil feel (or think) they want a 100% PAO based oil without realizing that what makes a PAO a good base oil also makes it poor at holding an additive package (very low solubility). PAO are fully saturated (no double bonds or aromatics) which helps it resist chemical attacks but also resists the add-pack at the same time. Group V and/or III are used with PAO's to hold the additives. Esters are very soluable and work very well with PAO's. It doesn't matter if it's a mixture of III, IV, or V's, it's all classified as a synthetic.

Like everything in life, to much of one thing is never good.

my $0.2

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#1029213 - 11/16/07 07:44 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: remmious]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29436
Loc: NJ
 Originally Posted By: remmious
I normally don't click on this type of thread but I will respond this time. Most new people to oil feel (or think) they want a 100% PAO based oil without realizing that what makes a PAO a good base oil also makes it poor at holding an additive package (very low solubility). PAO are fully saturated (no double bonds or aromatics) which helps it resist chemical attacks but also resists the add-pack at the same time. Group V and/or III are used with PAO's to hold the additives. Esters are very soluable and work very well with PAO's. It doesn't matter if it's a mixture of III, IV, or V's, it's all classified as a synthetic.

Like everything in life, to much of one thing is never good.

my $0.2


_________________________
2015 Mazda 3i SV 6spd MT - Mobil 1 EP 0w20

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#1029214 - 11/16/07 07:45 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: JHZR2]
bob_ninja Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 571
Loc: Ottawa, ON, Canada
It is certainly Group 666 ;\)

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#1029215 - 11/16/07 07:46 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: bob_ninja]
bob_ninja Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 571
Loc: Ottawa, ON, Canada
No, wait .. wait a second, it is actually group 25.2352353

How many decimal places of precision do you need?

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#1029218 - 11/16/07 07:49 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: bob_ninja]
bob_ninja Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 571
Loc: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Actually Deep Throat told me it is a new super secretive group -3. Apparantly they have a new POW+ formulation that doesn't even use oil. They insert a layer of vacuum between all surfaces held in place by superconductive layer of POW+ oil. No friction, no heat, even absorbs all the engine noise. You can drive in a stealth quiet mode like that sissy Prius toy.

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#1029224 - 11/16/07 08:00 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: remmious]
TonyMazz Offline


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 203
Loc: River Falls, WI
 Originally Posted By: remmious
I normally don't click on this type of thread but I will respond this time. Most new people to oil feel (or think) they want a 100% PAO based oil without realizing that what makes a PAO a good base oil also makes it poor at holding an additive package (very low solubility). PAO are fully saturated (no double bonds or aromatics) which helps it resist chemical attacks but also resists the add-pack at the same time. Group V and/or III are used with PAO's to hold the additives. Esters are very soluable and work very well with PAO's. It doesn't matter if it's a mixture of III, IV, or V's, it's all classified as a synthetic.

Like everything in life, to much of one thing is never good.

my $0.2



Thank you very much for this explanation and the time it took to write it.

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#1029237 - 11/16/07 08:23 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: JHZR2]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29436
Loc: NJ
 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
If performance in YOUR application, determined by UOA is good, then what is the issue? One is paying for PERFORMANCE, not BASESTOCK, per se. I know some are overcome by the so-called value proposition of using PAO or better basestocks exclusively, but even those setups have their limitations.

We are at a point when the overall chemistry is more important than basestock, IMO.


JMH


Agree 100%. Thats all you need to know.
_________________________
2015 Mazda 3i SV 6spd MT - Mobil 1 EP 0w20

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#1029249 - 11/16/07 08:39 AM Re: Mobil 1 - BASE OILS [Re: buster]
uconn1150 Offline


Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 694
Loc: Texas
Only one side of the argument is being voiced however. Yes, Grp III may perform as well as (or even better) than say a full PAO. However, Grp III oil is much cheaper than PAO. My disappointment is that the Grp III syns cost as much as PAOs. I would rather pay more and KNOW EXACTLY what I am purchasing versus "marketing" claims.
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