This is the 1st thread I've started..so here we go. I am going out of town on a long trip at the beginning of the week, so this weekend is the only chance I have to work on my car. I have found evidence of sludge in the engine, so I am going to remove the valve covers and remove as much as possible by hand, same with the oil pan. I will feel comfortable using some kind of flush at that point (don't want anything to get clogged up). I just realized ARX (MacDaddy of engine flush) is online only, so can't get it in time. Anyone recommend something else that is available from the counter? Should I do the old drain quart of oil and add ATF fluid for 20 minute idle then replace, or is there another product available that is similar to ARX? I have the sludgemonster that all sludgemonsters aspire to be, the Chrysler 2.7L. I appreciate any advice.
Will something other than ARX do?
- Thread starter drivewaytech
- Start date
- Status
ATF won't do much, especially in only 20 minutes.
There are engine flushes at most all auto parts stores, and Wal-mart. Many call for a 20-30 minute fast idle and then dump it.
You might try one of those.
With a fresh fill of oil, you might add MMO to the 10W-30 oil fill. Change again when you get back.
By then you'll have time to get the ARX.
5W-30 might be too thin this time of year with the MMO in it.
The myth that ATF does a good cleaning is just that.
There are engine flushes at most all auto parts stores, and Wal-mart. Many call for a 20-30 minute fast idle and then dump it.
You might try one of those.
With a fresh fill of oil, you might add MMO to the 10W-30 oil fill. Change again when you get back.
By then you'll have time to get the ARX.
5W-30 might be too thin this time of year with the MMO in it.
The myth that ATF does a good cleaning is just that.
Auto RX and Lubecontrol LC20 are the two products that I trust for engine cleaning.
Why not try Shell Rotella 5W-40, Mobil 1 HM 10W-30, or Valvoline Maxlife for a little extra cleaning power in an over the counter product?
Why not try Shell Rotella 5W-40, Mobil 1 HM 10W-30, or Valvoline Maxlife for a little extra cleaning power in an over the counter product?
Thanks for the advice. Wasn't sure about the ATF, something that I heard some time ago because it's a high detergent. The MMO is definetly out for me because Chrysler calls for 5w-20 on this engine. That's already to thin for my tastes. I will look at some flushes at the autoparts store, but I don't want anything to abrasive. I will know more once I get the valve covers off, to how bad of a build-up I have. What I picked up by fishing some wire in the oil cap opening and PCV opening looked more like "soft" (condensation) sludge rather than the burnt stuff. I just don't want to get 500 miles from home with the family and have the chain tensioner get clogged up and throw the timing. The LC20 is good stuff too, but again only available on line. I am currently using M1 5w-20, which some say acts as a cleaner. I just want to purge the engine well before getting on the road.
Stick with the M1 5W-20 and a good oil filter. I think it is better not to change things begore a trip.
Order ARX and flush after the trip, 1500 miles before the next oil change.
Order ARX and flush after the trip, 1500 miles before the next oil change.
RX is not a flush. No nothing else will do. Cheers..s
Will do. I believe you guys are right, I should wait till after the trip. The car only has 30k miles, so I don't think I am on the verge of engine failure. No ticking or grinding noises at all and is running great. All I can hear are the voices in my head trying to tell me doom is lurking. lol. Been reading to many postings about the 2.7 failures which were more confined to 98 - 2003 years. Thanks again for the tips. This is by far the best forum on the web! My wife has felt neglected for the past 3 weeks since I discovered BITOG. Can't stop learning. No computer where we are going, so I can make it up to her.
I took the PVC out a week ago and cleaned it real well and made sure a light vacuum still opened it. Replacing it would be better. That is however what started me on this scare. The PVC port was pretty gummed up with thick sludge. Not sure if some measure of an amount is normal.
I've got one too but mine has 178K on it with no trouble so far (see my signature). Don't get too worked up about a bit of crud in the PCV and it's hoses. I change my PCV every 8 or 10 months. Once a year I also clean the PCV hoses and the heat exchanger with pipe cleaners and Varsol. Some crud in these parts is normal for the 2.7, but it IS important on THIS engine to keep the PCV system working well, and not to ignore it.
I've done 3 ARX cycles on mine during the past year. Really I had next to nothing show up in any of the filters so I suspect the engine was (is) fairly clean.
I will be doing the chains, tensioners and water pump this spring as preventative maintenance.
Phil
I've done 3 ARX cycles on mine during the past year. Really I had next to nothing show up in any of the filters so I suspect the engine was (is) fairly clean.
I will be doing the chains, tensioners and water pump this spring as preventative maintenance.
Phil
If you have a 2.7 you need ARX! After you does 1-2 Auto-Rx treatments I would use only synthetic in that engine. The 2.7 is prone to sludgeing and in this case I think any of the over the counter solvent type flush's are too risky! In the mean time clean the pan and the valve cover and timeing cover area. I would put M1 0W30 or 0W40 in it to make sure it has good flow!
If you insist on useing a cheap over the counter flush use an entire pint of B12 Chemtool. You need something that is going to disolve the sludge almost instatly. I would put a fresh filter on it and fresh oil in it just for the flush!I like to use a HDDEO like Delvac or Delo 15W40. The B12 is going to thin out the oil and HDDEO has a good additive package designed to handle soot from diesels. I would run it at fast idle around 1500 RPMS in your driveway for 30 minutes. Make sure the engine is cold when you add the B12.B12 is really agressive and use's the shotgun approach to solvents flushing. It is effective on sludge and varnish. Most of your other flush's use only 2 type of solvent or two mild ones and most of their volume is just filler like mineral spirts or kerosine. B12 is all solvent and no filler. The reason for the fresh oil and filter is to help suspend all of the sludge you are going to be cleaning out and to offer plenty of active antiwear additives.The fresh filter is their to catch any of the large carbon partiles that would hurt a bearing. After the thirty minute flush your oil will blacker then it has ever been. Change your oil again with filter and oil you are going to run for that oil change intercal.
Now I want to reiterate that Auto-Rx or Lube Control would be my first choices!! If I were going to use a solvent flush in a sludger 2.7 the above is how and what I would use!
Now I want to reiterate that Auto-Rx or Lube Control would be my first choices!! If I were going to use a solvent flush in a sludger 2.7 the above is how and what I would use!
maybe try a 50/50 mix of M1 0W40 and Redline 5W30 before you go on the trip.
soak that oilpan in brake cleaner or something when its off.
i would do as follows:
order ARX so you have it when you get back (or order it to where you are going?)
throw in solvent engine flush, fast idle for 15 mins
drain all the oil
remove pan and clean the #@$%! out of it
clean top end however you were planning
put engine back together
fill with cheap dino oil and a good quantity of MMO and fast idle for 30 mins (or drive around for a day, this is to get those solvents out of the engine)
drain and fill with RL/M1 mix, be on your merry way
when you get the ARX, add it and start your clean phase.
soak that oilpan in brake cleaner or something when its off.
i would do as follows:
order ARX so you have it when you get back (or order it to where you are going?)
throw in solvent engine flush, fast idle for 15 mins
drain all the oil
remove pan and clean the #@$%! out of it
clean top end however you were planning
put engine back together
fill with cheap dino oil and a good quantity of MMO and fast idle for 30 mins (or drive around for a day, this is to get those solvents out of the engine)
drain and fill with RL/M1 mix, be on your merry way
when you get the ARX, add it and start your clean phase.
I used to be one of the biggest proponents of B-12 flushes but really, in all honesty, I never had one clean anywhere near what arx did. I know that sounds like some kool-aid drinker response but it's true. No doubt I've had B-12 knock the crud right off piston crowns when pouring it thru the spark plug holes, but......
Another thing people have got to look at more critically is this belief that redline in short intervals (and hdeos for that matter) are going to do anything meaningful. I know I'm a sample of one, but really, we don't have any photographic evidence on here (with before/after pics) of redline or an hdeo doing anything. I know that in theory there should be something going on but if it is, it's on a really slow track. I look back over the last year and just regret buying up all sorts of alternative flushes and treatments instead of just running arx the whole time.
Another thing people have got to look at more critically is this belief that redline in short intervals (and hdeos for that matter) are going to do anything meaningful. I know I'm a sample of one, but really, we don't have any photographic evidence on here (with before/after pics) of redline or an hdeo doing anything. I know that in theory there should be something going on but if it is, it's on a really slow track. I look back over the last year and just regret buying up all sorts of alternative flushes and treatments instead of just running arx the whole time.
Well guys, definitely have some decisions to make. One thing that stands out is the opinion of ARX. I have had this car less than a month and have already performed two oil changes. Paranoid precaution, because the oil was near black when I bought it, which means the dealership do not change the oil or look the car over before selling it. It was a program car. I have to try and find this B-12 chemtool, never seen it before. By all means the best way to remove sludge is to tare engine down and clean each part (commonsense), but I'm not sure I am up for that task with this DOHC varible timing engine. I will likely order the ARX and not do anything until returning from vacation. I'll then remove oil pan and VC, clean all that I can. Change the oil filter, probably to an oversize filter and add the ARX. I'll drink some ATF myself to clean out the digestive system (lol). va3ux... congrats on the high milage! There's hope Obe Won Kenobi, there's hope.
Personally, with only 30K on the engine I'd just stick with the Mobil 1 5W-20 good oil filters.
I'd run Chevron Techron concentrate, Regane large vehicle fuel cleaner, Vavlvoline Synpower Complete Fuel System Cleaner, or Redline SL1 once in a while to clean the injectors.
And when I got back from the trip, I'd run ARX for 1500 miles per the instructions, rinse with Castrol GTX 5W-20 for the 2K, and then go back to Mobil 1 5W-20 and consider a maintenance dose program of ARX or switch to LC20 and follow their dosage instructions.
You could run the Mobil 1 for 5K intervals a few times then see if you can go out to 7K intervals.
I wouldn't tear things apart and go on a witch hunt for sludge or worry about the motor.
I think the odds are you will have no problems with the engine running the program above, and there is a greater chance of a problem if you start tearing the engine down trying to clean it.
Check your cooling system before the trip, that it is full and belts and hoses look good. Check you tranny fluid level, and at some point.. drain and refill with the correct fluid. Don't use a flush machine.
Make sure the tires are safe and have enough tread depth for wet roads and that the wipers are good, the windows are clean inside and out, and the headlights are good.
I think that you are worrying about the sludge issue, and trying to be too proactive. Consider doing what I have suggested above ...it really is all that I would do.
let me tell you something. alot of people think that atf doesn't work. they are wrong! I will show you some pics that use the aft. I agree though, use it like regular oil, dont just put it in and dump it out as it wont do much.
I used a harsh chemical once on a six cyl once and it lost my cam halfway to az going back to ut. I will never use a harsh chemical again. anyway here is the put I have using atf and the neutra combo.
[img=http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.41943ca087.gif]
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...rt=2#Post724597
that should be the entire thread on engine clean up. btw, I also have a 2.7 with alot of miles on it.
I used a harsh chemical once on a six cyl once and it lost my cam halfway to az going back to ut. I will never use a harsh chemical again. anyway here is the put I have using atf and the neutra combo.
[img=http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.41943ca087.gif]
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...rt=2#Post724597
that should be the entire thread on engine clean up. btw, I also have a 2.7 with alot of miles on it.
- Status
Similar threads
