Second Particle Count OEM filter

[GeorgeCLS]

My second particle count is completed using the OEM filter, Mobil 1R 0W-30. Mileage this analysis is 1,574 miles. I will then install the Amsoil EaO filter and re-sample at 1,500 miles, then on to 10,000 miles for the long term comparative with my original particle count.
First and Second PC's are as follows:
20/19/17 (10,000 miles) 18/17/15 (1574 miles)
>4 microns 8407, 1817, >6 microns 4578, 990, >14 microns 779, 168, >25 microns 157, 34 >50 microns 15, 3 >100 microns 1, 0.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

 

[Gary Allan]

>4um__ 8407/1817
>6um__ 4578/990
>14um___779/168
>25um___157/34
>50______15/3
>100______1/0

Thanks, George.

 

[GeorgeCLS]

Gary, that 18/17/15 is not too bad for a paper element...
Most anxious to see what the EaO results indicate..
It will not take me long to get the EaO 1500 miles. Again, this will be the same oil as with the paper OEM, just a filter change, so we should have a good comparative baseline.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

 

[Gary Allan]

Okay ..so refresh my memory.

10k PC (paper)
NEW OIL
1.5k (same paper
New filter (EaO)
test @ 1.5k - 3k on oil
test @ 10k -13k on oil

It will be a decent test of the EaO cleaning up existing particles. You might, if I reasoned it properly, have some skewed numbers on the bottom end ..at least for the short test.

 

[427Z06]

Here's a SuperTech ST7317 run on a Honda J30A1 for 4K miles. Note that a very short mileage oil and filter flush proceeded this run.

ISO Code(2) 16/12
NAS 1638 Class
ISO Code(3) 16/15/13

>= 2µ....934
>= 5µ....346
>= 10µ....95
>= 15µ....37
>= 25µ.....8
>= 50µ.....0
>= 100µ....0

The same type of procedure is now being run on an Amsoil Ea0.

 

[GeorgeCLS]

On my schedule I ran 10,000 miles on the OEM paper element ran particle counts/spectro. Changed oil AND filter. New Mobil 1R 0W-30 and OEM paper element installed. 1,500 thief sample. Changed oil filter only to Amsoil EaO filter element. will resample at 1500 miles then at 10,000 mile oil change.
Should have some good data..... Not enough to write a paper about, I realize, but at least to discuss...
George Morrison, STLE CLS

 

[427Z06]

Sounds good, George.

In my case, I'm hoping that in my zeal to achieve the ultimate level playing field, that I didn't give the filters too little to work with. But I do have the option to sample in place like the first run, but refrain from changing it and running it out to a longer interval, and then repeat test with a filter identical to the first for a longer interval.

 

[Tempest]

IF I'm reading this correctly, the ST is only letting ~1/2 the amount of particles through on an OCI greater than double the length?

I realize different engines, but that is quite a spread. Do you mind stating what your OEM filter is George?

 

[Gary Allan]

It might be rough to compare ..as you acknowledged in your post, Tempest. 427 did a short OCI with a dedicated flush oil to eliminate any residuals in the engine ..in an attempt to isolate the oil and filter to this one event. Now George's test may have some residuals ..but one could reason that he'll have them for both test sequences and, especially with the 10k test interval, will probably stomp out any residual additions with a whole bunch of added particles.

 

[Steve S]

Run with the oem filter let's say 8,000 miles and pull a sample ,install an EAO run it for 2,000 miles, then pull another sample . If the EAO is a superior filter the oil should be cleaner. I can't see any other way to prove if a filter is an improvement. Any other way will give different results because if the EAO filters way better there should be less wear due to the oil being cleaner"which is good" . Although would not show the real filtering numbers . I could be wrong though?

 

[Gary Allan]

I think I see where you're coming from Steve. Ideally, you would just have an oil that was dirty and filter through both on a test bench ..but since we don't have a test bench

But even if you're correct, does it really matter how/why there's less particles in the oil with the EaO ..or any other filter? You can figure, if the oil/filter is used in the same engine, that they contaminant production will be near the same .especially if you're doing a lot of miles in the sample.

What I'm saying is that every filter reduces wear in that they tend to trap particles big enough to create more particles if they weren't trapped ..but I don't think you're going to get someone to run 10k to produce a baseline control fluid ....AND your test method would be fine as long as you know that one filter is superior to the other.

 

[harry j]

Gary Allan,
While contaniment production may be at near the same rate, it will accumulate, if allowed, up to the abilities of the oil filter. If the Eao filter has a greater ability to filter, shouldn't the used oil show signs of clearing as smaller contaminents are removed?

 

[SWHeat]

Quote:

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Here's a SuperTech ST7317 run on a Honda J30A1 for 4K miles. Note that a very short mileage oil and filter flush proceeded this run.

ISO Code(2) 16/12
NAS 1638 Class
ISO Code(3) 16/15/13

>= 2µ....934
>= 5µ....346
>= 10µ....95
>= 15µ....37
>= 25µ.....8
>= 50µ.....0
>= 100µ....0

The same type of procedure is now being run on an Amsoil Ea0.

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This looks like the BOGUS (IMO) Pore Blockage Particle Count vs. the higher numbers that George has with what appears to be an Optical Particle Count. Check the sticky atop the Bypass filter section for my beef on the subject.

BTW, my "test vehicle" was totaled on 12-7-06.

So the new lab I was going to for my particle count testing has yet to receive a sample as I'm working through Auto-RX flushes and trying to decide what oil to consistently use for 5K runs of various filters in my new primary (previous backup) work vehicle. My new "backup vehicle" has too many miles on her and is a minivan that does not get the MPG's that I require (new to me, bought with insurance money). Stupid Alabama law that says if the repair (I was rear ended at a light) is 3/4 of the value of the car it is totaled.

Lame. Scam. She was straight and true even after getting her trunk crumpled. I'll be checking the VIN number and see if she was rebuilt and sold as I suspect.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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Gary Allan,
While contaniment production may be at near the same rate, it will accumulate, if allowed, up to the abilities of the oil filter. If the Eao filter has a greater ability to filter, shouldn't the used oil show signs of clearing as smaller contaminents are removed?

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Sure ..and that's fine if you know one filter is superior to another. Suppose you were testing Fram vs ST or PureOne vs. M1 or Baldwin vs. Wix??

We don't even know, IIRC, what the OEM filter is

If the filters were of like filtering ability ..you would not have the "better as it gets older" effect and the new filter may show no improvement on the test oil.

 

[harry j]

Gary Allan,
Quite true, this method will not work on filters of like ability, it may only be a good test for the Eao vs ....

 

[Gary Allan]

Yeah ...that's my thought. I just really like to make sure if anyone else who is reading, and not necessarily catching all the fine details of what others are saying, don't get the wrong impression.

This is one of the many things that I've learned here. Decent "validation" of your data. Most of us come up with ways to figure out if we're right about our hunches ...but if we happen to get the results that we expect/want ..that's it ..we don't question it any more and stop there.

So ..you end up looking like a nitpicker and a "pain"

 

[harry j]

I know what you're saying Gary, I have been disappointed by
advertisments making outrageous claims, only to fall far short of reality. The Eao filter is one of the few products that actually have exceeded my expectations. Sure Amsoil claims very good efficiencies at removing contaniments.
Until I saw it for myself (cleaner oil), I was sceptical.

 

[427Z06]

Quote:

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This looks like the BOGUS (IMO) Pore Blockage Particle Count vs. the higher numbers that George has with what appears to be an Optical Particle Count. Check the sticky atop the Bypass filter section for my beef on the subject.

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Hey...thanks!

I thought something looked fishy when I first got the report. I even ran it past another BITOGer filter expert before I posted the results because of it.

I won't mention any names.

 

[Steve S]

Gary exactly what I was trying to say . But use the engine 8,000 miles pull a sample swap out filters run 2,000 miles on the EAO filter then pull a sample and compare the numbers.

 

[427Z06]

Quote:

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Until I saw it for myself (cleaner oil), I was sceptical.

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Cleaner oil?