Airfilter shootout

[msparks]

Here is a fun link to an airfilter shootout for a VW TDI.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002955&p=

[ July 25, 2002, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: msparks ]

 

[msparks]

Here is an even better thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=004875;p=1

 

[Johnny]

WOW! What a bunch of nuts.

 

[VaderSS]

I question the results of the second one, but what impressed me about the first one is that the K&N outflows the pipercross up until it gets almost a 1/4 of a pound of dust into it.

 

[Spector]

The second one was obviously the Amsoil rep. I tried the Amsoil filters on two different engines. Two comments. Based upon oil analysis results there was no noticeable difference in Silicon levels or wear levels between OEM and Amsoil. After two years the Amsoil filters fell apart due to heat and cleaning. Thus, with no difference in ability to keep out dirt and the hassle of cleaning and re-oiling, just not worth it! OEM is my preference due to construction an overall fit over aftermarket.

 

[GeorgeCLS]

But even better yet, a group of VW TDI's (same site) had a Dyno 'shoot out' and the VW TDI with the highest dynomometer recorded horsepower had the original equipment VW paper element.. The K&N, other aftermarket filters recorded lower horsepower readings on the Dyno.

 

[Dominic]

I would be very interested in seeing how well my Holley Powershot stacked up against these other filters. It supposedly does better than the K&N, and so far in my car it seems to be working well (crossed some serious desert in that car and it stopped a lot of dust).

I guess I need to have an oil analysis done, check my Si levels to find out eh?

 

[GeorgeCLS]

From a lube engineer's perspective that looks at a hundred or so oil analysis results a day, I would highly recommend you or anyone running a K&N or other aftermarket air filter do an engine oil analysis to determine that the filter is indeed doing its job. I can easily spot a K&N equipped vehicle oil analysis results as in 90% of cases the filter keeps out bricks and birds very effectively but little else. The #1 cause of reduced engine life is dirt. The #1 engine oil alert I look at is dirt. One teaspoon of dirt will destroy a large V-16 CAT engine.. i.e. we need to make sure we have the best filter media, tightest induction system possible to ensure maximum engine life. If you look at a K&N filter you can see through the medium very easily. Supposedly the 'tackifier' grabs the incoming dirt particles. Visualize a dirt particle approaching the filter medium at 100+ MPH: there is NO oil, no tackifier that is going to reach out and capture that particle. Filter face impact velocity is just too great..

 

[Patman]

George, what do you recommend for the best air filtration possible? Right now I'm not sure what air filter is in my car (I bought it used) but I had a very low silicon number (7ppm) in my last oil analysis (a 2400 mile interval).

 

[GeorgeCLS]

If you have single digit silicon and low wear metals with your oil analysis results, you are about as good as it gets! That is a general target for dirt: i.e. single digits. If you have this with spectro, you have excellent air filtration with no induction leaks. As for recommendations, I suggest name brand/OEM paper. If a person wants to try another, do an oil analysis with quality paper, then another oil analysis, with particle count, for the aftermarket. This will give a complete picture of exactly how the aftermarket is doing.

 

[satterfi]

George

Does Fram qualify as name brand for air filters?

I've used them and was wondering if they equaled Motorcraft or Honda.

 

[Patman]

I have a Fram air filter on my wife's car right now so when her oil analysis is done (later in
the fall most likely) we'll see how it looks.

 

[Dipstick]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GeorgeCLS:
But even better yet, a group of VW TDI's (same site) had a Dyno 'shoot out' and the VW TDI with the highest dynomometer recorded horsepower had the original equipment VW paper element.. The K&N, other aftermarket filters recorded lower horsepower readings on the Dyno.

---

I've heard of some speed shop sources quoted as saying that "K&N's will suck in hot air from behind the radiator, while a stock paper element will take in cooler air from NEXT to the radiator." Sounds like this is the case for when K&N's actually drop the hp figures...which seem to occur more often than not.

[ August 11, 2002, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: ColdFusion ]

 

[GeorgeCLS]

"Does Fram Qualify"? No....
By name brand I meant the majors/OEM, etc. AC Delco, Wix, Hastings, Toyota, OEM, etc.
Again, it is best to check your vehicle, in your driving conditions, in your dust conditions, via oil analysis to determine that things are really secure. So very many new vehicles have induction leaks right from the factory due to poor build and design quality. One poor fellow searched for nearly a year, 20,000 miles and many oil analysis to finally find his induction leak in his new Ford pickup. The truck continually showed high double digit dirts (with corresponding high wear metals). It was a cracked piece of plastic that was on the bottom of an intake plenum. Obviously cracked during install at the factory. The crack was invisible cold but with heat grew to be quite large.. He would spray ether everywhere and at times, at idle, the engine would take off, other times it would not yet sprayed in the same area.. He had the plenum off several times but it looked perfect. So, it may not always be the air cleaner itself that can cause high dirt intake, accelerated wear..
Dirt is such a silent killer, yet one of the most prevalent engine and component life shorteners.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

 

[S76Drvr]

If the K/N is such a poor filter why is it so commonly used throughout NASCAR and other racing venues? If the filter is maintatined correctly, it performs well. Short of an airtight seal, maybe some of the K/N's may be suffering from poor housing seals etc. Everything's subjective, the analysis's you review with K/N's could have been motors that had other poor filter installed and maintained prior to the K/N.

It's an ongoing discussion that won't stop. I will agree that I'm not happy with sucking hot air after going to a FIPK from the stock box on my Expedition. Only wish Ford had (short of a hood replacement) come up with a "ram-air" design
like on Firebird's.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by S76Drvr:
If the K/N is such a poor filter why is it so commonly used throughout NASCAR and other racing venues?

---

Simple, it makes horsepower for them. They don't care if more dirt gets into their engines, as they rebuild their engines all the time. Those of us with daily drivers don't have that luxury. They could probably run without a filter at all, just some chicken wire to keep out rocks, and they'd do just fine.

 

[VaderSS]

quote:

---

"K&N's will suck in hot air from behind the radiator, while a stock paper element will take in cooler air from NEXT to the radiator."

---

All depends on the type of setup, I agree, hot air is bad, I fixed my stock airbox so it only sucks cold air.

Cheap and very effective.

 

[Dipstick]

quote:

---

Originally posted by VaderSS:

quote:

---

"K&N's will suck in hot air from behind the radiator, while a stock paper element will take in cooler air from NEXT to the radiator."

---

All depends on the type of setup, I agree, hot air is bad, I fixed my stock airbox so it only sucks cold air.

Cheap and very effective.

---

You know I've done the same type of set up to my Jeep and I agree it's very effective. I'm contemplating on replacing the windshield shade material to the thermal shield material you can buy at Summit or Jeg's. Blocks radiant heat up to 2000 degrees F (nevermind that you'd never ever see those temps unless your engine was in flames

)

 

[VaderSS]

I'll probably do that too. It was an experiment at the time and it is starting to look a little ratty 6 months later, but I took it off for a few day and was suprised at the difference when the engine compartment is heat soaked. I quickly put it back and have been considering a longer term replacement.

 

[Dipstick]

Shielding the airbox and airtube makes a significant difference, here are some links to prove it: airbox project
performance unlimited

[ August 31, 2002, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Dipstick ]