I have mixed a Pure One and a K&N (one year change interval with a filter at 6 months) and noticed no diff over a 100 % Pure One in the Si column.
K&N vs others(paper)
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Are you talking Air Filter?
Sorry if I didn't state it in the Thread. I was referring to K&N Air Filters vs Paper Airfilter.
I have a K&N drop-in in my car, & will send my first oil test off to Terry this week sometime. I'l be very interested in that Si # myself- if it looks high for a ~3k sample, off w/the K&N, back to paper. If all looks good, the K&N stays.
Hmm...plan to install an aftermarket intake tube/cone K&N-type filter in the next few weeks; I'll put a pre-filter sleeve on it, & watch the Si #'s very closely.
Hmm...plan to install an aftermarket intake tube/cone K&N-type filter in the next few weeks; I'll put a pre-filter sleeve on it, & watch the Si #'s very closely.
msparks,
My Mazda 1.8L is reporting a low 4ppm Si during my oil analysis. This is using a K&N replacement filter that had roughly 5500km at the time of the oil sample.
Regards,
Oz
My Mazda 1.8L is reporting a low 4ppm Si during my oil analysis. This is using a K&N replacement filter that had roughly 5500km at the time of the oil sample.
Regards,
Oz
Si: 13, 24, 18 most recent being first with a paper filter installed at the time of the oil change. Last 24ppm had K&N entire time. 18ppm was also with the K&N but only with 2100mi on the oil.
From my recent oil analysis I noticed that my SI is about 45.833% lower than when I had a K&N on the truck.
Does anyone else have analysis to support the difference? Sure glad I got rid of that K&N
From my recent oil analysis I noticed that my SI is about 45.833% lower than when I had a K&N on the truck.
Does anyone else have analysis to support the difference? Sure glad I got rid of that K&N
Hmm, well then maybe I have an intake leak or something. I don't know
In the majority of K&N equipped vehicle oil analysis, high dirt and assocated wear metals are typical. In a minority, due to driving conditions, installation, vehicle, driving conditions, dust types, the K&N works as well as paper.. That is why I strongly suggest anyone wanting to run a K&N do a baseline oil analysis with paper, then check oil again after switch to K&N or other aftermarket air cleaner. K&N stopped touting its filtration capabilties years ago although does refer to a "lab test" using "lab test dust" if asked to provide data.. The ability for a tackifier to reach out and grab a dirt particle traveling at over 100 mph approaching an open hole is, well, impossible.. It only takes 1 teaspoon of dirt to destroy a huge Caterpillar engine, obviously much less for a smaller engine...
Clean intake air is one of the most important single aspects for long engine life...
George Morrison, STLE CLS
Clean intake air is one of the most important single aspects for long engine life...
George Morrison, STLE CLS
One of the reasons why I can't wait to re-analyze my oil again. The K&N will be close to 10000km at that point (from coming out of the box brand new). I hope Si numbers turn out to be good coz' I'd hate to spend another wad of cash for Foam.
Regards,
Oz
Patman
Staff member
I may get stuck with a K&N filter in my car soon, as one of the popular things that frees up 10hp on an LT1 F-body is changing the restrictive airbox for the K&N FIPK unit. I'd like to change the cone K&N filter to a foam one if I can, but if not, I'll be stuck with the K&N. These
cold air kits generally sell used for about $150 CDN, so it's a killer bang for the buck.
If I do get stuck with one, at least it will be used, so the filter will be "pre-dirtied" and hopefully will filter better. If one was to put more K&N oil than normal on these filters, will they stop more dirt? Or will this just make more of a mess? I've got an old K&N cleaning kit from like 10 years ago that I never even opened! Everytime I've ever had a car with a K&N on it, I've ended up not cleaning the filter at all. (although I never kept those cars long enough that the filter was on there more than a year or two anyways)
cold air kits generally sell used for about $150 CDN, so it's a killer bang for the buck.
If I do get stuck with one, at least it will be used, so the filter will be "pre-dirtied" and hopefully will filter better. If one was to put more K&N oil than normal on these filters, will they stop more dirt? Or will this just make more of a mess? I've got an old K&N cleaning kit from like 10 years ago that I never even opened! Everytime I've ever had a car with a K&N on it, I've ended up not cleaning the filter at all. (although I never kept those cars long enough that the filter was on there more than a year or two anyways)
In years of analyzing oil for automobile engines I have found very little problems with a properly serviced K&N air filter.
At one time I was down on them , much like GeorgeCLS's observation. After taking a closer look we found installation and servicing the problem not the filter media or seal.Like ANY media if it is damaged air and trash will channel to the tear or hole. Grommets or gaskets are also a very common leak area.
Because of the high cost associated with Identifing the exact type silicon the old idea that it is always dirt is incorrect. Silicon can come from alot of sources; air leaks in PCV,air filter,intake manifold,oil fill ports,breathers, RTV,gasket materials,contaminated oil,Additives,leaching from new alloyed light weight pistons,low friction bearings,etc.
Baseline and correlation of baseline wear metals (looking at the whole result) is imperative for an accurate read.
At one time I was down on them , much like GeorgeCLS's observation. After taking a closer look we found installation and servicing the problem not the filter media or seal.Like ANY media if it is damaged air and trash will channel to the tear or hole. Grommets or gaskets are also a very common leak area.
Because of the high cost associated with Identifing the exact type silicon the old idea that it is always dirt is incorrect. Silicon can come from alot of sources; air leaks in PCV,air filter,intake manifold,oil fill ports,breathers, RTV,gasket materials,contaminated oil,Additives,leaching from new alloyed light weight pistons,low friction bearings,etc.
Baseline and correlation of baseline wear metals (looking at the whole result) is imperative for an accurate read.
I RECENTLY BOUGHT A 90 FORD VAN V8 IT ALREADY HAD A K&N FILTER IT WAS VERY DIRTY I BOUGHT THE CLEANING KIT BUT THE GUY AT THE PARTS STORE SAID THEY WERE BAD AND TO USE A REGULAR PAPER FILTER ALSO MY TRUCKS ENGINE MAKES A HOWLING SOUND UNDER ACCELERATION DOES THIS FILTER CAUSE THIS
Patman
Staff member
Is the K&N filter on your truck a cone shaped one? The cone shaped filters will increase the
induction noise on an engine, and make a whining or howling noise. When I put a big K&N
cone on my 97 GTP, you could really hear a huge increase in engine noise, all of a sudden I
could hear every sound the supercharger made. Others with GTPs who did this mod told me
the same thing happened to them.
induction noise on an engine, and make a whining or howling noise. When I put a big K&N
cone on my 97 GTP, you could really hear a huge increase in engine noise, all of a sudden I
could hear every sound the supercharger made. Others with GTPs who did this mod told me
the same thing happened to them.
no it came with a panel one
A K&N panel will not change the sound. Removing the intake resonators (he he) will make it sound louder, and many people do this to get a little more power out.
If a K&N is properly oiled and cleaned, it should do as well as paper. But I know of an otherwise good mechanic who blows his out with compressed air at least once a month. I tried to explain to him, that, not only was he wasting his time, but he was destroying the filter. He explained, "We do it down at the shop all the time." I let him know they were shortening the life of the engines they did that too, but he shrugged it off.
When I get my oil changed, I watch them service my car, and I tell them not to open the air cleaner or check the levels. "Just the oil and a lube please, 11 zerts."
I wish I had a house, I'd do it myself again... Paying for frustration... what's wrong with this picture?
If a K&N is properly oiled and cleaned, it should do as well as paper. But I know of an otherwise good mechanic who blows his out with compressed air at least once a month. I tried to explain to him, that, not only was he wasting his time, but he was destroying the filter. He explained, "We do it down at the shop all the time." I let him know they were shortening the life of the engines they did that too, but he shrugged it off.
When I get my oil changed, I watch them service my car, and I tell them not to open the air cleaner or check the levels. "Just the oil and a lube please, 11 zerts."
I wish I had a house, I'd do it myself again... Paying for frustration... what's wrong with this picture?
Regarding the "easy 10 hp increase", I would be wary of the claim. A recent VW TDI dyno day revealed that the highest horsepower developed at the rear wheels was for a TDI equipped a paper, OEM equipped VW vs. the foam/paper/K&N, snorkled VW's.....
It really depends on whether or not the stock filter is big enough to do the job. If it is, then putting one that flows more will not help. One thing to remember though, a K&N filter dirty enough to need servicing, flows near what a paper filter flows, clean.
VaderSS hits the issue on the head, regardless of media composition, optimization of airflow is always at odds with filtration efficiency. Combine a production engine that has tight spaces and cost issues you can see why a market was created for less restrictive airfilters.
I worked with a coal company a few years back that was spending $20,000 to $30,000 a MONTH on air filter replacements. Washable/re-usable air filters would have saved huge dollars if they would equal paper element efficiencies. We embarked on a very detailed test program utilizing service pickups, front end loaders, etc. which were in severe dust conditions. The aftermarket filter manufacturers all claimed that we would experience superior dirt filtration and overall cost reductions in air filter purchases. All the Mfgs supplied filters, pre-oiled, ready to go. On the larger pieces we left the paper secondary in place, just in case..
In one example application, a large front end loader that lived in dust, would go through 2 primaries (one for each bank of the V12 engine) a week and a secondary every other week for each bank. We installed each aftermarket on one bank of the V12. By noon of the first day, in each aftermarket, the small secondary filter would become clogged, requiring replacement during lunch hour break.
The same was true for the support vehicles. In every case the silicon, wear metals and particle counts went through the roof...
I was the one who proposed the test as I was convinced that the aftermarket filters would work... I am not the only one who has done this, however, as CAT, Cummins, etc. are continually testing medium to replace paper in those severe duty applcations..
And yes, the above was a worst case scenario, however, from a lube engineer's perspective the cleanest clean we can get intake-wise will result in the longest engine life.
That said, I am revisiting and we just installed an Amsoil dual stage on one of our vehicles that lives in dust and dirt. We have a detailed history on the vehicle including particle counts and ferrographies... It should prove interesting!
George Morrison, STLE CLS
In one example application, a large front end loader that lived in dust, would go through 2 primaries (one for each bank of the V12 engine) a week and a secondary every other week for each bank. We installed each aftermarket on one bank of the V12. By noon of the first day, in each aftermarket, the small secondary filter would become clogged, requiring replacement during lunch hour break.
The same was true for the support vehicles. In every case the silicon, wear metals and particle counts went through the roof...
I was the one who proposed the test as I was convinced that the aftermarket filters would work... I am not the only one who has done this, however, as CAT, Cummins, etc. are continually testing medium to replace paper in those severe duty applcations..
And yes, the above was a worst case scenario, however, from a lube engineer's perspective the cleanest clean we can get intake-wise will result in the longest engine life.
That said, I am revisiting and we just installed an Amsoil dual stage on one of our vehicles that lives in dust and dirt. We have a detailed history on the vehicle including particle counts and ferrographies... It should prove interesting!
George Morrison, STLE CLS
Jim Conforti, who is well known in BMW performance circles had tested K&N vs. paper not to long ago and states the results below. BMW K&N test
...and here is the actual lab test results. Lab results
Sticking with paper is the ONLY option IMO
...and here is the actual lab test results. Lab results
Sticking with paper is the ONLY option IMO
I think that for specific applications, K&N might be indicated against.
As has been pointed out elsewhere, some have very good luck with the filters.
In my case, the K&N showed the same results in analysis as with paper, with K&N showing better results than with paper for the specific issue of MAF contamination.
As is indicated above and elswhere, some show worse results and it would be indicated to use another filter type.
As has been pointed out elsewhere, it is important to periodically inspect the K&N to make sure it is still oiled, as indicated by the red dye in the oil, and spot oil places that have gone pale or white.
It is also indicated in the K&N FAQ, that sealing grease is very important for the replacement style K&Ns.
[ August 10, 2002, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: VaderSS ]
As has been pointed out elsewhere, some have very good luck with the filters.
In my case, the K&N showed the same results in analysis as with paper, with K&N showing better results than with paper for the specific issue of MAF contamination.
As is indicated above and elswhere, some show worse results and it would be indicated to use another filter type.
As has been pointed out elsewhere, it is important to periodically inspect the K&N to make sure it is still oiled, as indicated by the red dye in the oil, and spot oil places that have gone pale or white.
It is also indicated in the K&N FAQ, that sealing grease is very important for the replacement style K&Ns.
[ August 10, 2002, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: VaderSS ]
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