Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Subaru switched to GF-5 low moly oil 2 years ago.
Why in the world would Honda/Acura Canada run GF-5 oil in bottles labelled GF-4? That makes no sense at all.
Acura Canada only started carrying the 0W-20 grade under their own label instead of Honda's about a year ago, same Idemitsu bottle with an the Acura name instead in blue. And yes it says GF-4.
How do you KNOW Subaru switched and when? I bought five bottles of GF-4 Idemitsu oil from Subaru in February 2012 which was obviously still the high-moly formula. The UOA for that oil is
HERE. The VI came back at 174 in that sample.
Then in August 2012 I bought four quarts which were labeled SM/GF-4 from the same dealer. When I was there, the parts guy had to open a freshly delivered case of oil, I even talked with him about it because I'd heard that Subaru had switched, but low and behold, the bottles were labeled SM/GF-4. I then installed the 5th (makeup) quart from my previous purchase plus three of the new quarts in my Civic.
Meanwhile, in December 2012 user "lukoil" bought a bottle labeled SM/GF-4 and did a VOA on it which came back with 77 ppm of Moly instead of the expected ~600 (
LINK ). What do you think that oil was? It's possible there is a low-moly GF-4 formula which became available in 2012 some time, but I highly doubt it. If it was a GF-4 formula, it certainly wasn't the same GF-4 formula we thought it was. He didn't pay for a KV40, so we don't know about the VI.
At nearly the same time lukoil did his VOA, I did a half OCI UOA in a quest to find my intake-leak. That intermediate UOA is
HERE . Low and behold, the Moly came back at 284, indicating I'd put in some of the high-moly formula and some of the low-moly formula despite all the bottles being labeled SM/GF-4. I didn't pay for a KV40 measurement, because when I ordered the UOA I had no reason to suspect it wasn't the 197 VI formula. I then did another UOA at the end of my OCI, this time with a KV40 (
LINK ), the VI came back at 174 once again.
Why would Honda sell GF-5 oil in a GF-4 bottle? For the same reason Subaru is. It doesn't make any sense to me either, but it's obviously happening.
Subaru may have switched their procurement in 2011 when they were supposed to according to the API License, but actual high-moly GF-4 oil was available from them until at least February 2012 when I bought five quarts of it for use in my Civic. Some time between February and December 2012 the product in the bottles changed, even though the bottles themselves didn't.
Quote:
But if you're so convinced that the oil is the same as the lower VI low moly oil that Subaru is using why don't you put your money where your mouth is and send me the cost of a litre of Honda or Acura GF-4 oil plus the cost of a VOA and I'll buy a bottle and have it tested.
I've already put quite a lot of money where my mouth is, having paid for three UOAs including two with the KV40 add-on. How about you at least share the e-mail or whatever you have from Honda or Idemitsu saying they are in fact continuing to deliver GF-4 oil? No? Judging by the bottles are you? I've just gone to great length to detail why I'm suspicious of the bottle labeling. The other reason I'm skeptical is the API licensing requirements. I'm too lazy to dig up the info from the official API site right now (it's buried there someplace), but Infineum has a good summary site (
LINK ) which states:
Quote:
After September 30, 2011, the ILSAC GF-5 minimum performance standard for gasoline passenger car engine oils becomes the only basis for issuance of a license to use the API Certification Mark.
