Amsoil ASL 5w-30 - 10,327 - 2003 Honda Accord 2.4L

[Artem]

Part 2 of my RECYCLED OIL EXPERIMENT

A little history first...

The previous UOA was of Amsoil ASL 5w30 after spending 4,000 miles in my Honda Civic Si and then being recycled into the Accord and ran an additional 4,500 miles. (8,500 total on the oil)

This Current report has oil that was drained from my Si after only 2,000 miles (it was a winter run which saw a lot of warm up idling) and unfortunately, no UOA was performed on it to show the condition of the oil prior to going into the Accord. (i took a chance, having seen the previous UOA after 8,500 miles and decided that after only spending 2k in the Si, the oil still had a bunch of life left in it)

I refilled the Accord with some more ASL from the Si, this time the oil has a UOA on it after 3,000 miles and i'll resample @ 10k (after 7,000 more miles of use in the Accord.) to have a second UOA of the oil with more miles on it.

(I noted to Blackstone that the oil sample coming outta the Accord is of Recycled oil that was originally in my Si but they didn't seem to respond to it in their comments section. oh well, better luck next time as i'll have a previous UOA report # to show them)

Comment are appreciated.

 

[Artem]

Is it just me or does it seem like the ASL is beginning to thicken with this second sample??? It did look rather thick coming outta the engine.

 

[Artem]

Can someone explain to me why insolubles @ 0.5 is considered bad? Is it because the oil filter is clogging up?

 

[ltslimjim]

It sounds like just too much floating around in the oil; which can mean several things as contributing factors that is sorta like a check list:

Insufficient oil filtration
Excessive wear???
Deposits, gunk, etc suspended into the oil; perhaps from cleaning effect(removal) or could it be from onset of sludge(formation)?

I'd actually like to know more specifics as my Civic last read high at .5% as well. It makes me want to pull the oil pan.

 

[demarpaint]

The report doesn't look bad overall, but I have some comments. Both cars now have more miles on them, than the prior times you've done this. That could possibly have a slight impact, since the engines now have more wear and possibly more mile related by-products and wear related metals/etc. in them. IIRC weren't you using SSO in the past? IMO that might have been a better oil? Just tossing ideas around.

 

[Jim Allen]

Remember that the metals read in a UOA are
Remember when interpreting this UOA that it's the result of two different cars contributing DNA. Actually, it's a pretty good UOA by any standard but not a surprise to me considering the good ones my Honda cranks out year after year.

Insols are also generally the smaller particles the filter can't catch, as well as oxidation residue. Better filtration will extend the time when insols get too high, but eventually, they will build up to condemn the oil.

The extra silicon could be from the process of taking it out of one car and putting it into the other. Unless you did the change in a NASA clean room.... (hey you're in Florida, Artem ( : < ).

Anyway, it was kind of an interesting experiment. It didn't tell you much about your cars but it told you the oil can take a beating.

 

[addyguy]

Silicon and insols. are high. Not that it is affecting wear, but the oil is getting full of 'junk'.

Ran it for just the right amount of time, IMO.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
It sounds like just too much floating around in the oil; which can mean several things as contributing factors that is sorta like a check list:

Insufficient oil filtration
Excessive wear???
Deposits, gunk, etc suspended into the oil; perhaps from cleaning effect(removal) or could it be from onset of sludge(formation)?

I'd actually like to know more specifics as my Civic last read high at .5% as well. It makes me want to pull the oil pan.


Well the Accord is coming up on 200k and it wasn't exactly a 'Clean' engine to begin with, when i started doing oil changes on it.

I want to add that a PureOne oil filter was used during this interval instead of the usual Amsoil or HAMP filters.

I'm doing another 10k oil run but with an Amsoil filter this time (a used one from the Si) to see if the results will be a bit better.

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
The report doesn't look bad overall, but I have some comments. Both cars now have more miles on them, than the prior times you've done this. That could possibly have a slight impact, since the engines now have more wear and possibly more mile related by-products and wear related metals/etc. in them. IIRC weren't you using SSO in the past? IMO that might have been a better oil? Just tossing ideas around.


I agree that the Accords engine isn't exactly clean. The Si's engine however, should be spotless inside since it received 3k OCIs its whole life.

I haven't used SSO in the Si. Only ASL, so the previous recycled oil reports have all been with ASL.

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Remember that the metals read in a UOA are
Remember when interpreting this UOA that it's the result of two different cars contributing DNA. Actually, it's a pretty good UOA by any standard but not a surprise to me considering the good ones my Honda cranks out year after year.

Insols are also generally the smaller particles the filter can't catch, as well as oxidation residue. Better filtration will extend the time when insols get too high, but eventually, they will build up to condemn the oil.

The extra silicon could be from the process of taking it out of one car and putting it into the other. Unless you did the change in a NASA clean room.... (hey you're in Florida, Artem ( : < ).

Anyway, it was kind of an interesting experiment. It didn't tell you much about your cars but it told you the oil can take a beating.


Which is the only thing that interested me with this experiment to begin with. I wanted to see just how much longer the oil can keep going until it was deemed, not good for continued use.

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Silicon and insols. are high. Not that it is affecting wear, but the oil is getting full of 'junk'.

Ran it for just the right amount of time, IMO.


I feel that same way. 10k looks like a pretty good OCI.
I'm running this other fill to 10k as well to get a second UOA to confirm the results. The Accord will celebrate its 200k anniversary during the sampling at which point i'll throw in some New Amsoil OE because i'm all out of used ASL. Haha. Maybe some Redline?

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Remember that the metals read in a UOA are
Remember when interpreting this UOA that it's the result of two different cars contributing DNA. Actually, it's a pretty good UOA by any standard but not a surprise to me considering the good ones my Honda cranks out year after year.

Insols are also generally the smaller particles the filter can't catch, as well as oxidation residue. Better filtration will extend the time when insols get too high, but eventually, they will build up to condemn the oil.

The extra silicon could be from the process of taking it out of one car and putting it into the other. Unless you did the change in a NASA clean room.... (hey you're in Florida, Artem ( : < ).

Anyway, it was kind of an interesting experiment. It didn't tell you much about your cars but it told you the oil can take a beating.


I agree with the thoughts regarding silicon 'possibly' coming from the period of time the oil is drained from the Si and then put into the Accord. 20 ppm under
Good post and info about insols; as well.

I ran a P1 on my last OCI interestingly, only 2,750 and my insolubles were at .5 percent. It's weird that if the number of insols % present are not relative to the filter used, why does B_S insist on saying it's filtration not being up to par? Does that mean the oil was condemned, as you put it(it was a cleanup interval with 20% MMO and a HDEO)? I do have fears of a bearing that's going, and would hate to have a condemned engine. Ugh!

Anyway, back on topic...I believe getting a UOA on this Accord after running used Red Line from the Si would be awesome to see!

 

[Artem]

We'll see what the UOA @ 5k will show. TBN might be a bit too low for any extended use. Plus i really don't feel like telling my neighbor that we're backing back down to 5k OCIs with his Accord (from 7k) for whatever reason... maybe tell him its a shorter clean up run? Haha.

I'm all out of Redline make up oil and don't know what to do. Currently the oil level is at 1/4th up the dipstick, on the low side. I don't want to add some Amsoil as make up and throw the results off.

One of the options, besides draining it @ the current 3,800 miles and calling it a day, is to add some used Redline from the last fill. The TBN was right about the same as the current fill is at and it will raise my oil to the appropriate level without adding any NEW additives.

Thoughts?

 

[addyguy]

I'd add the used Redline - still has life to spare.

 

[Artem]

That's what i'm leaning more towards as well. I don't want to add PAO to an Ester blend. Plus i want to see how the TBN drops without having to add fresh additives into the mix, otherwise i'll end up with a TBN of 9.0 after 5,000 miles because of the constant top offs. Haha.

 

[chubbs1]

The insols. could be from fuel treatments. Do you treat the fuel? I would extend the changes and just change the filter at 6K.

 

[Artem]

My neighbor is cheap and doesn't use any additives. The oil was from my winter run so who knows.

I don't know about extending further unless the next UOA improves.

Why change the Amsoil filters rated for 15k earlier then needed?

 

[ericthepig]

Originally Posted By: Artem
The previous UOA was of Amsoil ASL 5w30 after spending 4,000 miles in my Honda Civic Si and then being recycled into the Accord and ran an additional 4,500 miles...


A waste of good Amsoil. Should've then put it back into the Civic and so on and so forth...

 

[Artem]

Thank you for the advice, Eric. I'll consider that next time.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Silicon and insols. are high. Not that it is affecting wear, but the oil is getting full of 'junk'.

Ran it for just the right amount of time, IMO.


^ This

Good report. Fix air filtration before extending any further.

 

[slalom44]

With high silicon levels, you may be getting some dirt past your air filter. Do you have an oiled K&N air filter by chance?

But with insoluble levels that high, it's possible that one of the vehicles has an engine management problem. If you were burning rich over time (fouled plug, bad O2 sensor, bad injector, etc) you might get excess soot. That would explain your high insolubles and why your wear is not excessive.

Amsoil uses some really good dispersants, preventing insolubles from agglomerating but if the insoluble levels are high enough, this could end up being a loosing battle. Since TAN was high, I'd make sure you don't have some other problem like a bad oxygen sensor.

 

[Artem]

Well the Si is fully tuned on the dyno, so i know its running proper air/fuel ratios, plus i'm able to monitor it live with my laptop hooked up to the engine management system as the engine is running through its paces. (insolubles read 0.2% after 3,000 miles.

The Accord on the other hand has had a CEL (check engine light) on for as long as i've been servicing it. It's an 02 sensor that costs like $120 and the owner doesn't seem to want to change it. I've bugged him about it for quite some time now. Someone told him that it's ok to drive around with the CEL on since it's not really hurting anything and that's what he's doing

I haven't showed him this UOA report yet so maybe once he actually sees the lab results, i'll convince him that it needs to be replaced so the engine runs closer to 100% efficiency with all the sensors doing their job. (better MPGs too!)