MMO

[Jax_RX8]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint

As I mentioned earlier experiment and see what works best. Too much is no good, it cuts power and fuel economy.
Frank D


True, but per Rich Kelly - Technical Director at Marvel, you can go up to 2.5 times the standard dose (or 1oz/gallon maximum) and continue to see additional benefits. As you gradually increase the amount you use, you will see additional benefits up to the maximum.

Above the maximum, you are right, it is too much oil and can cause smoking, carbon buildup, and hurt fuel mileage, but no long term affects once you return to the maximum dosage.


I use MMO in the standard dose in two of my cars with great success and use 8oz/12 gallons (1 oz/1.5 gallons) in my RX8 and it runs very, very good as Rotary's need the additional lubrication and cleaning.

 

[Jax_RX8]

Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral

I thought, from posts above, that the recommended dose was 3 oz./10 gal.? So, at a dose of 4, I should have about 7 oz. in an 18 gallon tank?


Put 8 oz in your fill-up (See above post), that way a qt bottle gets you a nice, clean 4 fill-ups - at $3.50/qt, your at less than $1.00 a tank - well worth it!

 

[INDYMAC]

Has anyone tried mixing FP+ with MMO in their fuel? Good? Bad????

 

[kr_bitog]

So far I have experimented with 2oz/10 gallon MMO and 0.75 oz/10 gallon SI-I, it works great to quieten the engine and feel very peppy during acceleration.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Jax_RX8
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

As I mentioned earlier experiment and see what works best. Too much is no good, it cuts power and fuel economy.
Frank D


True, but per Rich Kelly - Technical Director at Marvel, you can go up to 2.5 times the standard dose (or 1oz/gallon maximum) and continue to see additional benefits. As you gradually increase the amount you use, you will see additional benefits up to the maximum.

Above the maximum, you are right, it is too much oil and can cause smoking, carbon buildup, and hurt fuel mileage, but no long term affects once you return to the maximum dosage.


I use MMO in the standard dose in two of my cars with great success and use 8oz/12 gallons (1 oz/1.5 gallons) in my RX8 and it runs very, very good as Rotary's need the additional lubrication and cleaning.




Good information and probably worth trying up to 1oz/gallon and working back down to test results.

I had my son dump a quart into his BMW 323 fill it up and drive it about a 1/2 hour to mix it well and coat his engine before he put the car away when he deployed to Afghanistan. He said it ran pretty good, but our intentions were to coat the combustion chamber, injectors, cyl's etc. to help protect them for the time he's away. Hopefully all he needs is a jump to start the car when he gets back. IIRC I think he added some stabilizer to the gas as well, and changed the oil that day.

Frank D

 

[kr_bitog]

Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
So far I have experimented with 2oz/10 gallon MMO and 0.75 oz/10 gallon SI-I, it works great to quieten the engine and feel very peppy during acceleration.

i guess this kind of additive mess around with oxygen sensor and fuel mapping, with the above dosage the car feel very powerful, the engine didn't ping or knock even at lowe but mpg drops 10%. It is similar impact with using high octane fuel on my car.

 

[demarpaint]

I believe that a small amount of TCW-3 oil or MMO in a dose of lets say 400:1 will increase compression by making a better ring to cyl seal. I think MMO has some added benefits of having better cleaning properties than the 2 cycle oil, and perhaps the 2 cycle oil has better properties in making a better seal, especially in an older engine. This is probably where the better idle and more power feeling is coming from.

Another added benefit for those of us who have a vehicle that isn't used too often is the thin film of UCL that remains in the cyl helps resist corrosion of the cyl and combustion chamber.

I have been mixing MMO with TCW-3 oil in equal amounts, and using at a 400:1 ratio in my 93 Aerostar. It does seem to idle smoother, but no different than it idled with just MMO.

JMO
Frank D

 

[cmhj]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I believe that a small amount of TCW-3 oil or MMO in a dose of lets say 400:1 will increase compression by making a better ring to cyl seal.


This compression factor has been my contention for a long time.

All of my recent experiments with running a TCW-3 mix at 400:1 and down to 700:1 have all shown a mileage increase up to 2% over using no mix.

 

[demarpaint]

Yes I have used it enough to tell when I haven't added to the gas. I am not one who aggressively calculates MPG, but on long road trips I do. The MMO slows slight gains for me. At the cost of fuel today the 2% gain you mentioned adds up fast!

Frank D

 

[Mephy]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I believe that a small amount of TCW-3 oil or MMO in a dose of lets say 400:1 will increase compression by making a better ring to cyl seal. I think MMO has some added benefits of having better cleaning properties than the 2 cycle oil, and perhaps the 2 cycle oil has better properties in making a better seal, especially in an older engine. This is probably where the better idle and more power feeling is coming from.

Another added benefit for those of us who have a vehicle that isn't used too often is the thin film of UCL that remains in the cyl helps resist corrosion of the cyl and combustion chamber.

I have been mixing MMO with TCW-3 oil in equal amounts, and using at a 400:1 ratio in my 93 Aerostar. It does seem to idle smoother, but no different than it idled with just MMO.

JMO
Frank D


What is the purpose of mixing MMO and TCW-3 ?

 

[Quest]

[/quote]

What is the purpose of mixing MMO and TCW-3 ? [/quote]

LOL! to state it plainly: there are some folks who never seize to amaze me as to what they would to to their vehicles, and try to play oil scientists in their own back yard.

*off the line*
Oh yeah, didn't I tell you the other day, I was playing with hydrogenated palm oil in large quantities that something struck me as a stroke of genius...........

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Quest


What is the purpose of mixing MMO and TCW-3 ? [/quote]

LOL! to state it plainly: there are some folks who never seize to amaze me as to what they would to to their vehicles, and try to play oil scientists in their own back yard.

*off the line*
Oh yeah, didn't I tell you the other day, I was playing with hydrogenated palm oil in large quantities that something struck me as a stroke of genius...........

[/quote]


The purpose was pretty simple actually, I had some TCW3 left over from an outboard engine I sold, and wanted to use it up. It was pretty old so I mixed it with the MMO, figured at a 400:1 or 500:1 ratio it wouldn' hurt anything, I was right.

There are some folks who amaze me too.

Frank D

 

[mechtech2]

I mix them or use them separately [TCW3 and MMO].
The MMO is a better cleaner, and the 2 stroke oil is a better lube.
The mix is probably best for me.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I mix them or use them separately [TCW3 and MMO].
The MMO is a better cleaner, and the 2 stroke oil is a better lube.
The mix is probably best for me.

+1 Another genius in the group!

Frank D

 

[Mephy]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I mix them or use them separately [TCW3 and MMO].
The MMO is a better cleaner, and the 2 stroke oil is a better lube.
The mix is probably best for me.


Well all this mixing I think is not right, becouse we have no idea on the chemical reaction between this complex substances.

 

[Jax_RX8]

Originally Posted By: Mephy
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I mix them or use them separately [TCW3 and MMO].
The MMO is a better cleaner, and the 2 stroke oil is a better lube.
The mix is probably best for me.


Well all this mixing I think is not right, becouse we have no idea on the chemical reaction between this complex substances.


Generally I agree, but with MMO, Marvel stated for some time that it is compatible with all 2-cycles and dino and synthetic 4-cycles. Marvel actually recommends a 25% replacement of 2-cycle oil with MMO as a standard practice for 2-cycle engines. Also, many here have done their share of mixing MMO with gas and other oils and I have do not know of anyone that has seen any adverse issues.

As for whether it is beneficial to mix MMO and 2-cycle - I think it is great to do for a 2-cycle engine and maybe even a diesel - but for a 4-cycle gasser, I would not do it as I think it will cause sticky carbon buildup (although less than using 2-cycle oil alone like many are doing in the other thread).

There is a reason the Yamaha makes "Ring Free" - to clean out all those gummed up 2-cycle combustion chambers and rings - and these engines are designed to premix 2-cycle oil. 2-cycle oil in a 4-cycle engine may make the engine quiet, but I would bet it is slowly gumming things up.

Unless used in excess, MMO provides additional lubrication for 4-cycle engines and keeps them clean at the same time - why risk messing this up?

 

[Mephy]

I'm a bit confused on what is good as UCL I was using lucas but I want try tcw-3 oil becouse are ashless and as you say with time there should be no problem with carbon deposit.

MMO here in Toronto I can't find.

 

[Jax_RX8]

Originally Posted By: Mephy
I'm a bit confused on what is good as UCL I was using lucas but I want try tcw-3 oil becouse are ashless and as you say with time there should be no problem with carbon deposit.

MMO here in Toronto I can't find.


I was inferring the opposite about 2-cycle TCW-3. While it is ashless, that does not mean it will not cause deposits in an engine, especially a 4-cycle engine - it just may be less than a low-ash 2-cycle oil.

IMHO, for a 4-cycle gas engine, you are better off with some kind of lubricious cleaner (like FP+, FP60, MMO, Lucas) rather than using a 2-cycle as you will get the added UCL you are seeking without worry of carbon an other gunk building up.

2-cycles do have some cleaning abilities, but barely enough to keep up with the deposits they create, if that much - and the deposit tests they must pass are just to really limit the buildup - they do not really do not really "clean" per se.

Here is the info from the Marvel site on Canadian availability:

"Unfortunately, Marvel Mystery Oil is not available anymore at Canadian Tire.
However, Marvel Mystery Oil in the US Gallon size is stocked by TruServ Canada.

The TruServ Canada stocking number is 0414200.

The phone number for TruServ Canada headquarters is 204.453.9511. Call headquarters if you are having trouble finding this product at your local store.

Thanks TruServ!"

 

[Mephy]

Thanks a lot !!

Anyway what does make you think that lucas is better UCL for 4-cycle engine rather then TCW-3 oil?

It has no certification and if you go on the MSDS there is pratically no information.

 

[Jax_RX8]

Originally Posted By: Mephy
Thanks a lot !!

Anyway what does make you think that lucas is better UCL for 4-cycle engine rather then TCW-3 oil?

It has no certification and if you go on the MSDS there is pratically no information.



I don't think Lucas lubricates better than a 2-cycle, just think it might be less prone to causing deposits - but is not much of a cleaner IMHO, since they clearly state it contains no solvents - most gasoline additives that clean do.

Generally, I am not really much of a Lucas fan, I prefer FP+ or MMO. Both are very good cleaners and lubes, but MMO just seems to provide the engine with a little more ooommmppphhh - it starts quicker and seems a little livelier.