UOA of 2006 Audi A3 2.0t FSI running GC 0w30 (M5012) 4100mi + LC/FP

[crew219]

Engine sees mostly 90% city driving 10% highway. Fill was from this past winter where it would regularly dip into 0F. Car was pushed hard once oil temps were normal . . . aftermarket intake (foam filter) was used.

My thoughts are that the high iron wear is somewhat normal for a newer engine + 1.8% fuel dilution. Pleased with the valvetrain wear . . . flashpoint seems a bit low IMO. Moly is leftover from the previous fill (M1 0w40+VSOT). Debating if I should switch to the new Amsoil AFL 5w40 at 15k. I think I will continue using FP/LC.

Dave

 

[Quattro Pete]

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Car was pushed hard once oil temps were normal . . .

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Just curious, does the A3 have an oil temp gauge or did you add an aftermarket one? I know the A4 used to have an oil temp gauge a while back, but then they dropped it around 2002 and I'm not sure if it ever returned.

Not sure what to think about the elevated iron. I'd probably wait for another sample to see if there's a downward trend.

 

[zardozfromoz]

That's a huge dose of fuel. Where's it coming from? It's causing that high iron wear, and the low flashpoint. I'd track it down and fix it as soon as you can.

On the positive side, the low silicon shows that the air filtration looks about as good as it can get.

 

[TooSlick]

Looks like you're getting higher than average cylinder wear due to "fuel wash" down past the rings. It would be worthwhile trying a thicker 5w-40 just to see if it helps.

The wear pattern of these new 2.0L, FSI engines is not the same as the older 1.8L turbos. So I wouldn't try to compare the UOA data from those engines.

I like the FP60 in low doses, but you don't need oil additives with a full synlube and 5k OCI's. I'd skip the LC20 if you decide to try the Amsoil 5w-40, since it voids their warranty on the oil. I have seen gelling issues when Amsoil is mixed with additives like Marvel Mystery Oil.

TS

 

[Pablo]

How many total miles? Yeah the fuel is high - tell us about your sampling technique. I agree with TS and certainly, again, don't see what the LC did. Hard to tell with the fuel.

 

[crew219]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pablo:
How many total miles? Yeah the fuel is high - tell us about your sampling technique. I agree with TS and certainly, again, don't see what the LC did. Hard to tell with the fuel.

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13600 total miles when the sample was taken.

The sample was taken in my driveway, meaning that I had to idle the car for about 10 seconds or so, but the was was driven hard prior to that. The sample was also taken more towards the bottom of the pan, instead of the middle when draining the oil.

I'll be investing in the fluid pump that blackstone sells for the next sample.

Dave

 

[crew219]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
Looks like you're getting higher than average cylinder wear due to "fuel wash" down past the rings. It would be worthwhile trying a thicker 5w-40 just to see if it helps.

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Most definitely. IIRC the fuel rail pressures on an FSI engine can see up to 1500psi. Very much like a diesel engine. The compression is 10.3:1 and the tuning I have increases timing significantly as well as boost (stock 10psi hold, revo 18psi hold).

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:

I like the FP60 in low doses, but you don't need oil additives with a full synlube and 5k OCI's. I'd skip the LC20 if you decide to try the Amsoil 5w-40, since it voids their warranty on the oil. I have seen gelling issues when Amsoil is mixed with additives like Marvel Mystery Oil.

TS

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Good to know. With winter coming up soon, should I make the switch to 5w40 amsoil now or give my 5 quarts of green a shot? Ithaca frequently sees close to 0F temps, but looking at the visc@40C, GC & the new AFL are within 4cSt of each other IIRC.

Dave

 

[TooSlick]

Dave,

I'd go two runs in a row with the Castrol, then two in a row with the Amsoil 5w-40. If you switch oil brands/formulations with every change, you'll never see the best results with any oil....

TS

 

[Patman]

The link doesn't work right now (which is why we prefer people type out their results, even if it takes longer)

 

[crew219]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
Dave,

I'd go two runs in a row with the Castrol, then two in a row with the Amsoil 5w-40. If you switch oil brands/formulations with every change, you'll never see the best results with any oil....

TS

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Indeed TS, however I already threw in some Mobil1 0w40 as an interim oil until my mandatory dealer-provided 15k oil change. Either way, whichever oil goes in next will have a bit of contamination with M1. I'm at 14100 right now and will probably get the oil changed by the dealer in the next few weeks. The dealer I go to has both BC 5w40 and M1 0w40. I can also bring my own oil and they'll throw it in with no mention on the paperwork that they're using customer provided oil.

With M1, I have noticed before and am noticing now that there is increased valve noise. I haven't used the BC before but don't really want to continue switching add packs . . . therefore, I am tempted to either bring the dealer my last 5 quarts of GC or some AFL 5w40.

Dave

 

[crew219]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
The link doesn't work right now (which is why we prefer people type out their results, even if it takes longer)

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Done

Vehicle: 2006 Audi A3 2.0t FSI
Oil type: Castrol Syntec 0w30 (M0512)
Make-up oil added: 0.5 quarts

HI/HR on oil 4,100
MI/HR on unit 13,600
Sample Date 8/31/06

Aluminum 4
Chromium 1
Iron 37
Copper 5
Lead 4
Tin 0
Molybdenum 35
Nickel 1
Manganese 2
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 2
Boron 21
Silicon 4
Sodium 6
Calcium 1520
Magnesium 406
Phosphorous 762
Zinc 927
Barium 0

Sus Viscosity @ 210F 61.9
Flashpoint 350
Fuel Dilution 1.8%
Antifreeze 0
Water 0
Insolubles 0.3

Comments: David, thanks for the note about the way this car is driven. Iron read high in the first sample from your Audi. This shows excess wear at either the cylinders or a rotating shaft, though it could be from something operational such as racing and residual from break-in. We'll keep an eye on it next time. There was also some fuel present, but it is likely from the city driving you do. We don't consider it a problem until it's above 2.0%. Insolubles were low at 0.3% showing good oil filtration. 5,000 miles on the oil should not be a problem. Try that for the next sample.

 

[Dave H]

Crew,

You're not the first to notice an increase in valvetrain related noise with Mobil 1. Some on here will debate its existence, demanding absolute proof in the form of some study or what ever. I say hogwash to that because I know what my ears have heard. I personally have observed it not just once, but in two successive OCI's in my Maxima. I have also read numerous posts (especially from other Nissan VQ owners) who ask the same question about the noise issue with Mobil 1. In my case it was the older 10.? cst 5w30 SuperSyn (released after the "Tri-Syn" formula). I've always leaned more towards the thin viscosity causing it, as the noise immediately diminished when using the slightly heavier Castrol GTX 5w30 and then especially with GC. But lately, I've been reading on some friction modifiers and other additives affecting valvetrain components (in a positive way), so even basic additive differences can justify the noise issue. I don't know with 100% certainty what causes the noise, but I am 100% certain the noise was there with Mobil 1. Now that Mobil 1's 5w30 is thicker, the noise issue may have been solved; I don't know. But I'm very happy with the quietness and smoothness from GC and therefore won't switch back to Mobil 1 anytime soon.

I'm not slamming Mobil 1, as I think it can be a good oil in the right engine. I however don't think it is the right oil for Nissan VQ's, and quite possibly for some other engines as well.

If you're happy with the GC performance, I'd use it for several OCI's and get some UOA's (as long as it is the proper viscosity for your Audi). Then you could try several with the Amsoil (another good oil) and compare UOA's along with subjective impressions like engine noise, "pep", etc... I think several successive OCI's with the same oil are needed for better accuracy in UOA's. Switching from one chemistry to another all the time just doesn't lend itself to accurate comparisons because of leftover oil/additives, etc...

Based on your UOA, I don't think you have any problems with the GC. The iron looks suspiciously like leftover from breakin. I say this because your other wear metals appear disproportionately low for there to be a mechanical problem. And I'd think that if the fuel dilution was a real problem, your lead would've been higher.


Dave

 

[moribundman]

Hi iron, eh? You know, the friendly guy who drove your Audi off the VW auto carrier vessel in Cranston, RI, probably floored it recklessly. Makes me wonder, how many short distance trips are between the assembly plant and the dealership? My US-bought A4 had 18 miles on the clock when I picked it up at the dealer (not dealer stock, but custom ordered). That could mean dozens of short distance trips. The VW that I bought in Germany had only 2 km (1.2 mi) on it when I got it!

 

[crew219]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:
Hi iron, eh? You know, the friendly guy who drove your Audi off the VW auto carrier vessel in Cranston, RI, probably floored it recklessly. Makes me wonder, how many short distance trips are between the assembly plant and the dealership? My US-bought A4 had 18 miles on the clock when I picked it up at the dealer (not dealer stock, but custom ordered). That could mean dozens of short distance trips. The VW that I bought in Germany had only 2 km (1.2 mi) on it when I got it!

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11 miles on the odo when i picked it up. Seems to be quite standard. I trust that Audi workers + their delivery staff know how to handle cars properly. Also, IIRC mine was offloaded in Delaware. Keep in mind that I only consumed .5 quarts of oil because of high RPM driving on the twisties between here and Watkins Glen.

Dave

 

[moribundman]

Dave, I wasn't totally serious about this -- although you can't be sure if some yahoo is in a real hurry when unloading the ship. I did forget about Delaware, where the other unloading point is. Your oil consumption is of no concern. When my A4 (2.8 V6) was new, there was a little oil consumption. After the first oil change at 7,500 mi there was less than 1/4 oil consumption between oil changes (until the valve stem seals started going South). The engine kept loosening up noticeably until at least 50k miles. If I drive my A4 spirited, it will currently (at 154,000 mi) suck down a quart oil over... oh, I better don't say.

 

[TooSlick]

Dave,

The fuel dilution and the oil consumption are closely tied. Reduce the amount of fuel dilution and I believe the oil consumption will drop as well. This amount of lead wear IS a bit high for this engine. I've been seeing 0-2 ppm after 10k OCI's...The recent UOA from a 4.2L, direct injection Audi also showed high fuel dilution. So I'm beginning to wonder if it's characteristic of this engine design to some degree.

I'm guessing this engine has had several oil/filter changes already? So I'd discount the "left over" break in metal theory....

TS

 

[StoicDude]

In my 1.8 T the fuel dilution was high too. I wonder if GC has something to do with this. I will be sending in a sample soon and see how it fairs up.

I managed to get some Valvoline synpower 5w-40 for cheap and will be putting that in next to see how it does against GC.

 

[RI_RS4]

Dave,

Given that the iron wear and fuel dilution are high, I'd guess that the cylinders are still not totally broken in, or that fuel dilution is causing increased iron wear in the cylinders. I'd change the oil, run until she's up to temperature and take an oil sample. Then take her out on some long drives and run her hard. See if you can get 1K in pure highway miles on her, then take a second sample. Afterwards, run her like you normally do, before winter sets in, and sample again after 1K. With those three samples you'll know:

1) What the starting elemental levels are, and you won't have to guess whether it's from residual breakin or oil.

2) What the incremental wear numbers are for predominantly highway driving.

3) What the incremental wear numbers are for your city driving.

I'm also beginning to think that FSI in the US may contribute to increased fuel dilution, since it does not run in stratified mode, although your fuel dilution issue may be due to excessive warmup idling this past winter.

I'd definitely change the oil because of the dilution. It may be increasing your iron wear, too.

Scott