Custom Blend(T6/M1/MMO)--2750 miles--92 Civic VX

[ltslimjim]

Oil(s): Rotella T6(2 Quarts), M1 0w30(1 Quart), & MMO(22-23 ounces added in total).

Capacity: 3.5 Quarts

Oil filter used: PureONE PL14459

Air filter used: K&N drop-in replacement

Well, at the request of addguy(IIRC) I got a UOA performed on my 'cleanup' blend between my first Amsoil run and the current one I'm on. The purpose was to monitor any trending with sodium and silicon. I am disappointed with the amount of silicon still present with this UOA regarding silicon, though, and I'm leaning towards getting away from K&N for good now in this app. OTOH, I do believe worries of a blown head gasket have been settled.

Lastly, perhaps more importantly, my insolubles seem to be somewhat concerning but I could use some advice here. I used a P1 on this interval and a Napa Gold on the previous 3-4 OCIs. Currently, I'm using an Amsoil oil filter. I wonder if the insoluble percentage could be from cleaning causing carbon deposits to become suspended etc(hopefully not actual sludge with potential for oil starvation

as I didn't see any in my used oil catch pan).

Here is a link to the .pdf image:

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/7813/vxreport2.png

Here are the results wrapped into code:

Code:
OIL Custom Blend

MILES IN USE 2,750

MILES 251,440

SAMPLE TAKEN 05/30/2011



ALUMINUM 3

CHROMIUM 0

IRON 6

COPPER 3

LEAD 5

TIN 0

MOLYBDENUM 131

NICKEL 0

MANGANESE 0

SILVER 0

TITANIUM 0

POTASSIUM 3

BORON 39

SILICON 12

SODIUM 18

CALCIUM 1600

MAGNESIUM 453

PHOSPHORUS 823

ZINC 835

BARIUM 0



SUS VIS 210ºF 60.9

cSt @ 100ºC 10.46

FLASHPOINT ºF 390

FUEL%
ANTIFREEZE% 0.0

WATER% 0.0

INSOLUBLES% 0.5


Previous UOA post: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2226604&page=1

 

[Lead Shoes]

Looks pretty good, especially for 250k miles, I have been wondering if T6+MMO would do well in my civic, looks like I will be trying that out.. how much MMO did you add? and were there any ill effects because of the 5w40 vs 5w30?? 5w40 probably wouldn't do so hot in my civic in the MN winters..

 

[ltslimjim]

^T6 in a Civic, at least the SOHC, is too thick by itself. I added 16 ounces(1 Pint) of MMO initially and as some of the solvent burnt off(within 1,000 miles), I was able to add 7 more ounces of MMO approx. This made it roughly 20% MMO during the entire OCI.

I will not recommend using T6 by itself, and strongly caution against regular use in a Civic. Perhaps if you have modded it quite a bit, can't recall if LX is DOHC or not?...non-the-less especially for MN use it only in the summer and for no more than half of a mixture. I only did this in order to see how T6 helped with cleanup efforts.

Still would like to know more about insolubes, I hear it goes up in an engine over time in part. Not sure what this means for this car.

 

[chubbs1]

The insol's were a little high but this was a cleaning run, and it looks like it worked some, so I would not be too worried about it. OTOH you are now running a very efficient filter which can get clogged. I would not use it for more than 5k. I know people will disagree with me but I would try to be on the safe side if it were my vehicle. Nice report!

 

[ltslimjim]

^thanks chubbs. I don't believe this was a sludge-filled engine and the Amsoil filter isn't tiny by any means. I believe it should be safe until I sample at 7,500 at least to see if this current fill can make 10,000. From the drains I've done, even after idling with a 'flush' last summer before getting into my 1st use of Amsoil, the most I've gotten was grainy carbon deposits that came out/settled to the bottom of the collecting pan.

I'd hope the Amsoil filter can hold more tiny particulates, since it's designed for extended service. I don't plan on running this OCI out past 10,000. My goal is to work up to that and settle for 12,500 as a max in my app; with 10,000 as my initial goal.

I'm also considering which air filter to go with on this Civic. The K&N isn't keeping the numbers low enough for my tastes, if it is indeed to blame on the air filter. This is my last shot giving K&N the chance. I'd hope the numbers trend down to 15 ppm over 7,500 miles.

 

[addyguy]

Cool oil mix you created there - I like the resulting add-pack!

Also, you blended it just perfectly to get a mid-30-weight at the end, which is just what a 1992 Honda calls for.

Good job!

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Cool oil mix you created there - I like the resulting add-pack!

Also, you blended it just perfectly to get a mid-30-weight at the end, which is just what a 1992 Honda calls for.

Good job!


Which is what I was hoping for in the end.

I'd probably need two or three more OCIs just like this one to have lasting results from cleaning(T6+MMO etc), but I'm pleased with the experiment thus far. Got to get some tie-rods replaced now, but otherwise the car overall is holding up fine for the age/mileage. I think 350,000 is doable. Hopes of 500,000 still remain!

If insoluble percentages remain this high, OTOH, I may opt for a pan drop and manual cleanup as well as inspection of the oil pickup screen. The pan on this car has a 'small' 2-3 inch scrape-like dent, so dropping it/replacing it isn't out of the question anyway. The oil pan does seem to sweat some, so I take it that means it's degrading over time? My mechanic said the 'dent' should be harmless.

I also had him perform a valve adjustment/cover gasket replacement so I'd hope he would see any return passages under the valve cover being clogged or not.

 

[ericthepig]

I can't remember hearing a good filter report for K&N.

More power to you on that 12.5k OCI. That's the legit OCI that most should be shooting for today w/ Synth (imo). Though you better stay top shelf on your oil choice w/ a 3.5qt sump.

 

[MolaKule]

What did the VOA show for this mix?

 

[ltslimjim]

^Sorry to disappoint, but not VOA was performed. Though, you could generate a 'comparable' mix if you had 1 qt M1 AFE 0w-30(SM), 2 Qts Rotella T6(unchanged? SM), and 1 pint of MMO.

 

[Gene K]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I will not recommend using T6 by itself, and strongly caution against regular use in a Civic.


Why? 40 was standard viscosity in Australia.

Im not suggesting its needed but I don think its that harmuful for the car.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: Gene K
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I will not recommend using T6 by itself, and strongly caution against regular use in a Civic.


Why? 40 was standard viscosity in Australia.

Im not suggesting its needed but I don think its that harmuful for the car.


I suppose I should amend my previous post: The Civic model I drive.

This car is the more finicky model so I get more immediate 'results' for oil choice, anecdotal or not, because the car is bi-polar. Of course, if in a hotter environment I'd probably have no issue running T6(southern FL or desert etc), at least in other Civics. The VX has lean-burn and is picky.

 

[ltslimjim]

Update: It appears I 'may' have a spun bearing in one of the cylinders allowing for a rod to knock; haven't verified this yet. This may/may not be contributing to the high percentage of insoluble(s).

I may create a thread in the mechanical sub-forum. I'm hoping that upon inspection it's something exhaust related(shield/cover loose; bracket broken...bad leak from cracked manifold/pipe?) or perhaps the skid/backing plate for the front disc brakes/rotor being warped and rubbing during low gear/speed; particularly when cornering(almost sounds like CV joints). It's prominent during acceleration(not WOT), yet the car runs great, so I will get it on ramps and listen from the oil pan with a screwdriver etc. It has only happened while driving the car so is hard to diagnose from home. Worn engine mount popping when low gear/more torque is on the engine, is that possible???

Basically, I had a mechanic that replaced my tie rods two days ago say 0w-30 was too thin for this car and it was rod knock/the engine was on it's last leg and I should 'try' a 20w-50 to see if that helps. That didn't fly with me, yet he may still be right(rod knock). This wasn't recommended or mentioned after my vehicle was serviced, by the way, as I called the shop later same day about the sound still being present. I had thought the tie rods were contributing to this sound that started after/just before my recent oil change(after the fill in this UOA). It's been 1,000 miles into the new OCI. I had previously simply associated the noise to the tie rods needing replacement. It reminded me of the CVs. I'll be getting it up on ramps and to inspect the recent work performed, so a perfect chance to listen for the sound/noise.

But...if it was internal with the engine wouldn't I hear it at idle(although less prominent) and even more so by revving the engine and letting off? I don't hear it when I do this, only while the car is moving and in gear. Particularly when resuming acceleration between 15-40 MPH, and while cornering especially, though it may continue briefly after returning to a straight steering wheel position.

 

[steve20]

if it's only heard while moveing I seriously think it is not engine internals related

 

[ltslimjim]

Thanks for the comment. I found out it was the CV joints, replaced 15 month ago/15,000 miles. About 2 months now it's been making the sound, not sure if the joints are worth saving, but will try to see what the shop is willing to do that performed the job. The outer boot at the wheel from each half axle need replacing. Passenger side outer boot was collapsed in on itself and the driver side one; a slit about 1/4-1/2 inch allowing the grease to come out.

I suppose my only internal concern is the silicon numbers. VOA of Amsoil's AZO showed 5 ppm of silicon from Artem's post, so after this run I'm on(by the end of the year) I'll know about how 'bad' or not K&N is for sure in my app. Not pleased so far and I'm looking around to know what to go with next if the end report shows less than 'ideal' numbers as well.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
The insol's were a little high but this was a cleaning run, and it looks like it worked some, so I would not be too worried about it. OTOH you are now running a very efficient filter which can get clogged. I would not use it for more than 5k. I know people will disagree with me but I would try to be on the safe side if it were my vehicle. Nice report!


chubbs, I'm actually taking your advice here. I will be changing out my EaO by 5,000 since the insols% was high in this UOA and use a PureONE I have lying around for the last 2,500-5,000 before I change the oil. It will also provide an opportunity to top off with fresh oil. I don't think I want to worry about the filter clogging.

It may be this heat(battery is marginal right now, not sure if that will affect the following), but upon a restart at noon today; this after a brief(15-20 second) moving of the vehicle in the morning just to re-park, the car started and sorta felt like it was deciding whether or not it wanted to use the high idle/detect ambient air temp to the computer etc or to use a warm idle. It was 95 degrees out with a heat index of 105+, so IDK. It made it 'feel' like the oil pressure was bad, sorta like it was needing to build? If that makes any sense. The oil light was on for 2-3 seconds after restart and then went away, as usual. I did just run a full bottle of Red Line SI-1 and re-filled with 87(no additives).

Some future plans currently are to consider replacing my battery and change the coolant from Prestone 50/50 pre-mix Long Life to Honda coolant or Amsoil's.

Lastly, not sure if this would cause the symptom described above or not, but I do have a clutch that is going out. It makes the engine have a rattle at idle or when engaged(the pedal relaxed without my foot on it), but if I depress the clutch pedal to the floor(at least until it engages fully past the play in the pedal), then the rattle stops. Especially a problem at full temp, with AC on and sometimes at night with headlights on at an idle.

PS: K&N filter may be replaced soon, by my next UOA anyway. I still must decide which other brand to use instead.