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#3431532 - 07/21/14 07:23 PM Re: Living beyond your means [Re: Clubber_Lang]
hattaresguy Offline


Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 5223
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
The social security system operates off of unfunded liabilities. Do you have any idea how high unfunded liabilities are in the US? From memory i believe around 140 Trillion dollars. The US is 17 trillion in debt. 40 cents of every dollar uncle sam spends is "borrowed" by printing money out of thin air! This is how the federal reserve scam works.

Goods becoming more expensive is actually the dollar loosing its value. But the US has to continue to devalue the dollar just to make minimum i repeat minimum payments for the money it constantly borrows.
This is an endless cycle we cant escape.

Tell me how all that is sustainable. I'd like to hear your answer.


That's factually incorrect.

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#3431753 - 07/21/14 10:38 PM Re: Living beyond your means [Re: hattaresguy]
cashmoney Offline


Registered: 03/23/13
Posts: 199
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
The social security system operates off of unfunded liabilities. Do you have any idea how high unfunded liabilities are in the US? From memory i believe around 140 Trillion dollars. The US is 17 trillion in debt. 40 cents of every dollar uncle sam spends is "borrowed" by printing money out of thin air! This is how the federal reserve scam works.

Goods becoming more expensive is actually the dollar loosing its value. But the US has to continue to devalue the dollar just to make minimum i repeat minimum payments for the money it constantly borrows.
This is an endless cycle we cant escape.

Tell me how all that is sustainable. I'd like to hear your answer.


That's factually incorrect.



Agree - concerning unfunded liabilities - that occur only in pension funds. The US SS system is not in any way shape or form a pension fund. It is a direct transfer payment system meaning that today's SS taxes are immediately paid out directly to those drawing SS payments. Solvency of the system (meaning that current SS taxes are equal to current SS payments, depends on combination of the following 1)US working population growing, 2) GDP growing, 3) productivity increasing over time. Please take the time to read the link I posted early about how the SS actually is designed and how it works. There are too many people in the US who are ill informed on basic workings of our financial and government systems. Too many people's heads are filled with half truths by the shouting moron stars of the popular media. A media that is actually only interested in selling commercial time for fast food, laxatives, and boner pills to the gullible instead of actually educating their viewers on complex issues.


Edited by cashmoney (07/21/14 10:41 PM)

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#3431867 - 07/22/14 02:24 AM Re: Living beyond your means [Re: Clubber_Lang]
Clubber_Lang Offline


Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 294
Loc: SC
The problem with SS is that your money is being paid out to an ever growing senior base. Increased lifespan is great, but it represents too many people drawing SS from working peoples federally taxed checks. This trend will continue and I gaurantee that you will never get out of SS what you paid into it if you are less than 50 years old.

You guys are conveniently ignoring the nations absurd national debt, which is mathematically impossible to pay back. Do you think this problem is going away? As I said before we are borrowing 40 cents of every dollar in federal spending. Do you seriously believe that this will not catch up to us? Things will eventually have to be severely cut, and one of those cuts will be to your SS payout which will be drastically reduced. Tell me why it is so great to confiscate money from your paycheck to pay to older generations, while the younger generations do the same for you.

SS was a huge mistake and is a Ponzi scheme. Why cant we just be responsible for our own retirement funds? That is the question we should be asking ourselves.
_________________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Sir W.C.

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#3431870 - 07/22/14 02:33 AM Re: Living beyond your means [Re: hattaresguy]
Clubber_Lang Offline


Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 294
Loc: SC
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
The social security system operates off of unfunded liabilities. Do you have any idea how high unfunded liabilities are in the US? From memory i believe around 140 Trillion dollars. The US is 17 trillion in debt. 40 cents of every dollar uncle sam spends is "borrowed" by printing money out of thin air! This is how the federal reserve scam works.

Goods becoming more expensive is actually the dollar loosing its value. But the US has to continue to devalue the dollar just to make minimum i repeat minimum payments for the money it constantly borrows.
This is an endless cycle we cant escape.

Tell me how all that is sustainable. I'd like to hear your answer.


That's factually incorrect.



Care to expand on that?
_________________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Sir W.C.

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#3431904 - 07/22/14 05:25 AM Re: Living beyond your means [Re: Clubber_Lang]
Turk Offline


Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 8059
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
Why cant we just be responsible for our own retirement funds? That is the question we should be asking ourselves.



I have and I am. Which is how I retired early at age 52! thumbsup

_________________________
03 GMC Sierra 4x4 200k, M1 TDT
00 Saturn SL2 89 YO Lady Car. 84k Miles! PU
98 Saturn SC2 "Red Hot" PYB + LubeGard + Kreen
97 Camry 212k Maxlife


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#3432025 - 07/22/14 08:54 AM Re: Living beyond your means [Re: Clubber_Lang]
KrisZ Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4317
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang

You guys are conveniently ignoring the nations absurd national debt, which is mathematically impossible to pay back. Do you think this problem is going away? As I said before we are borrowing 40 cents of every dollar in federal spending. Do you seriously believe that this will not catch up to us? Things will eventually have to be severely cut, and one of those cuts will be to your SS payout which will be drastically reduced. Tell me why it is so great to confiscate money from your paycheck to pay to older generations, while the younger generations do the same for you.


Yes, people actually believe in this because they've been told by the "experts" on TV that it is really not debt and that we can walk away from it . We had similar threads in the past and a lot of people don't see the national debt as a problem.

My concern is, why haven't we walked away from this debt already? Why are we still paying the interest and to whom?
_________________________
"I always thought I was perfect, until one time I thought I was wrong and it turned out I wasn't."

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#3432130 - 07/22/14 10:30 AM Re: Living beyond your means [Re: Clubber_Lang]
cashmoney Offline


Registered: 03/23/13
Posts: 199
Loc: TX
National debt is a serious issue that has to be carefully managed or it will get out of control. National debt that grows at the general pace of long term growth in GDP is absolutely fine. At this point the national debt is growing faster than the rate of GDP growth. I am all for drastically decreasing size of federal government in most areas but on a national level deficit spending in recessions is absolutely necessary to shorten and mitigate the downside portion of natural economic cycles (recessions).

National budgets and deficit financing on a macro level is not at all like micro level economics. Tightening a national budget in a recession is a guaranteed way to collapse the economy. But drastically tightening your home budget in a recession is a very good plan. Everyone in the US that graduates from high school should be required to have two years of economics - a year of macro and one year of micro econ. We'd have a lot better and more informed discussions if that was put in place.

The recent surge in national debt was not helped by the US spending $6,000 per second for the last 12 years financing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes you read that correctly - $6,000 per second for 12 years so far...


Edited by cashmoney (07/22/14 10:35 AM)

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#3432249 - 07/22/14 12:39 PM Re: Living beyond your means [Re: Clubber_Lang]
daves87rs Offline


Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 13610
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
They do roam. The preferred connection is wifi, then sprint. However they lease off all the towers so you can pick up a signal from verizon, at&t, ect. No roaming fees at all. I have traveled up and down the east coast with someone who had verizon. Republic constantly had service when verizon had dead spots occasionally.

Its true you cant use it out of the country. Fine for me im not a world traveler.

Most people i tell dismiss it by saying theyve never heard of it, or my favorite "im not giving up my iphone"

Whatever floats your boat, i have better uses for the 600+ i save a year.

Ill vouch for a business with exceptional value.

www.republicwireless.com



This is also on Sprint's network I am guessing? If I can talk and text all I want, I'm game. I was looking at Kroger's I wireless (on sprint's network) for 35/month with unlimited talk/text some data.


I pretty much use for what it is for (talking!), but I like the idea of using mostly wifi....many places around here offer it...
_________________________
“The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.”

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#3432312 - 07/22/14 01:35 PM Re: Living beyond your means [Re: Clubber_Lang]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 24369
Loc: ME
Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
The problem with SS is that your money is being paid out to an ever growing senior base. Increased lifespan is great, but it represents too many people drawing SS from working peoples federally taxed checks. This trend will continue and I gaurantee that you will never get out of SS what you paid into it if you are less than 50 years old.


Yes but that's because labor can't be saved over a generation. When today's 50-somethings need nursing care in 30 years today's babies will be taking jobs, paying SS, and that money will go across town and be spent that week. There will be tons of employment opportunities but it will be menial type work changing geezer diapers. Investing will be "weird" with old folks dumping real estate and stocks to pay for basic care in a nursing home somewhere.

The most plausible way to save labor is to make *very* durable goods like infrastructure-- bridges etc-- that we won't have the revenue base to maintain adequately in a generation and by getting the most, youngest people the most educated they can be so they can work that education for 50 years.

However we "fix" SS, one's neighbor will get the same benefit as themselves and compete for the same help. The way to come out ahead, as always, is to save more than the competition and remain on good terms with your kids, who might be keeping after you later.

The real fix is to slash SS now, to "correct" those on it coming out like bandits, and helping along the curve of their cashing out investments instead so the market has a softer landing.

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#3432322 - 07/22/14 01:46 PM Re: Living beyond your means [Re: Quattro Pete]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4364
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: A_Harman


It at least saves you paying the additional interest in excess of the purchase price on a depreciating asset.

And again, that is only looking at one part of the equation. On the other hand, you could have invested that cash that you dumped into the car purchase and earned interest. If that investment interest is higher than what your loan interest is, then you're making more money by taking out a loan on that car.


MAYBE you can find an investment that will earn you a higher rate of return than what you will DEFINITELY be paying on the car loan. You could take that money to your local casino and bet it all on Red 23.
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

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#3432368 - 07/22/14 02:40 PM Re: Living beyond your means [Re: eljefino]
cashmoney Offline


Registered: 03/23/13
Posts: 199
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
The problem with SS is that your money is being paid out to an ever growing senior base. Increased lifespan is great, but it represents too many people drawing SS from working peoples federally taxed checks. This trend will continue and I gaurantee that you will never get out of SS what you paid into it if you are less than 50 years old.


Yes but that's because labor can't be saved over a generation. When today's 50-somethings need nursing care in 30 years today's babies will be taking jobs, paying SS, and that money will go across town and be spent that week. There will be tons of employment opportunities but it will be menial type work changing geezer diapers. Investing will be "weird" with old folks dumping real estate and stocks to pay for basic care in a nursing home somewhere.

The most plausible way to save labor is to make *very* durable goods like infrastructure-- bridges etc-- that we won't have the revenue base to maintain adequately in a generation and by getting the most, youngest people the most educated they can be so they can work that education for 50 years.

However we "fix" SS, one's neighbor will get the same benefit as themselves and compete for the same help. The way to come out ahead, as always, is to save more than the competition and remain on good terms with your kids, who might be keeping after you later.

The real fix is to slash SS now, to "correct" those on it coming out like bandits, and helping along the curve of their cashing out investments instead so the market has a softer landing.



Very interesting and insightful - and definitely a potential scenario. I think it is possible that the US end up in a sad weird future governed largely by the crushing demographic of the giant WW2 baby-boom retirement and die-off.

However I think the US might escape that scenario because the US population, productivity, and GDP will in combination keep growing at a healthy rate. Strong net new immigration into the US is a key factor here. The up side of growth and population increase is that there will be funds and young workers to pay for the giant babyboom die off. The downside is the US will continue to get more and more overcrowded and polluted over time.

Demographics and immigration policy can govern a country's future. Folks in Japan may soon be facing serious crisis if they are not already in one. Japan's super conservative national budgets, very slow GDP growth in combination with negative birthrate, and very restrictive immigration policies have pretty much set up Japan for a very unpleasant future (way too many old people, way too few younger families and workers to fuel economic growth). The good side is that Japan will be a lot less crowded over time : )


Edited by cashmoney (07/22/14 02:53 PM)

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#3432385 - 07/22/14 02:54 PM Re: Living beyond your means [Re: A_Harman]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26128
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
MAYBE you can find an investment that will earn you a higher rate of return than what you will DEFINITELY be paying on the car loan.

Maybe? I'm talking 0.9% new car loans. Finding an investment that will offer you over 1% return isn't overly difficult.

The picture will obviously look different if you've taken out a 5% loan.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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